I have zero interest in defending Catholics or the Church

[annad347]

Are you saying it is OK to disagree with the Church on some things?

Do you mean the Chuech as The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit… or the church as in the Pope?

If the last one than we can disagree with some things, yes. Not everyone agrees with the Pope.

If it’s the first than No, we either accept God or we dont.

 

[Rau]

That’s not at all what he said.

The poster said:

“ I have no problem defending my own stances as a Catholic individual. But I see no purpose in defending the pope, other Catholics or the Church.”

I think my inference is reasonable and the poster did not raise objection.

 

[neophyte]

I think my inference is reasonable and the poster did not raise objection.

I don’t, and he did.

 

[fhansen]

I’m sure you’re familiar with the term “sensus fidelium”. It speaks of internal agreement among the faithful regarding truths of the faith as taught by the Church, an agreement that is fostered by the Holy Spirit and is more than simply agreeing to agree, or simply saying we believe because we’re told we must. I came to that sense of the faith the hard way to begin with, by seeking truth, and continuing to do so. And at some point I just I knew I agreed with the Church-at least on the main points. But that doesn’t mean that I’ve explored and have that same personal conviction about every last teaching. For those I give the Church the benefit of the doubt, having now come to trust her on the other matters.

 

[MNathaniel]

I’m sure you’re familiar with the term “sensus fidelium”. It speaks of internal agreement among the faithful regarding truths of the faith as taught by the Church, an agreement that is fostered by the Holy Spirit and is more than simply agreeing to agree, or simply saying we believe because we’re told we must.

I hope you’re familiar that sensus fidelium doesn’t mean that a Catholic is free to disbelieve something we’re told we must believe (by an appropriate authority speaking within their scope of authority)? E.g. a Catholic cannot dissent from Church teaching on contraception and claim this teaching might not count yet because it hasn’t been “received” yet.

Even if you do understand (and your comments seem like you probably do), I’ll just drop a sample link here in case others don’t, because unfortunately there are some people who hear sensus fidelium and think “Doctrine can change by democratic holdout.”

Fuzzy Reception | Catholic Answers Magazine

 

[fhansen]

Yes, well, I described myself coming to agree with the Church, certainly not the Church coming to agree with me!

But there’s something very special about knowing for oneself that these teachings are true, rather than just deciding to believe they’re true, as if that’s really possible at the end of the day. Agreement is where God, and the Church, wants us because that’s when we truly believe, even as the conviction can be stronger or weaker, with room to grow stronger yet.

 

[MNathaniel]

But there’s something very special about knowing for oneself that these teachings are true

Oh agreed. it’s nice to find oneself actually understanding what one assents to. While at the same time (at least in my own life) I’ve found it’s often an opportunity for enormous growth when I come across something I know I have to assent to but don’t yet understand.

There are a couple passages in Scripture like that. Every time I read them it reminds me, “Nope, I still have no idea what this parable is talking about. I look forward to one day learning!”

 

[Rau]

I don’t, and he did.

you’ve a great sense of humor. There is no post by the other poster since my post.

 

[fhansen]

One interesting note to this experience, for myself at least, were times when I already believed a certain truth, and then later was surprised and delighted to find that the Church actually taught that! It reminded me of Samuel Clemens quote:
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

In my case I had found out that mama knew best after all, after leaving her for many years.

 

[Mr_Freeze]

Yes, it is wrong.
For the same reason (and others) that it is wrong if you do not defend yourself.

 

[StudentMI]

I’ll defend my faith as a Catholic. . . .

 

[o_mlly]

If by “Church” you mean the human component, i.e., the institutional church then, if it is in error, one ought not defend an error.

If by “Church” you mean the divine component that gives Catholicism its mark of holiness then one need not defend what one cannot; one may simply “shake the dust from your sandals”. If one has the grace to defend the truths of our faith then one ought to do so.

One has an obligation to defend all persons, not just Catholics, from unjust attacks. We ought always defend the truth and never defend untruths. Error has no rights but those who hold errors do. Those who hold untruths do not give up their rights as ones also made in the image of God. We ought not tolerate their errors but we must tolerate them.

 

[Raxus]

Pope Benedict’s pontificate revolved largely around instructing the faithful on their faith so that they could answer at least basic questions as needed. If that falls under the somewhat broad umbrella of “defense”, then I think that’s very important.

If instead the OP (shame that they’re suspended) is talking about someone saying something like “Well, the Church is full of idiots, NYAAAAAAHHHHH”, I don’t necessarily see a need for every Catholic to be able to engage in a deep philosophical and historical discussion about the Church with that person. Folks who are called to apologetics should certainly follow that calling, but not everyone is gonna be good at that; it’s a social skill as well as a mental one, and not everyone has both in spades.

That being said, learning about the faith for one’s own sake is never a bad idea.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I wouldn’t defend most of them if my life depended on it.

I’m really glad you’re back and I hope you’re doing well, but take this in the spirit it’s intended: you’ve been kind of a black cloud lately. It’s like you’re consciously trying to pick fights and vent all these grievances. You really don’t seem like yourself.