I heard that Catholics...

[Emma412]

Shibboleth:

Do they all consider the Pope the fearless leader above all others?

well, well. I would have to say for accusing Bing of having angst against the Lutheran church, you sure were ready to jump on the train full of people that have a problem with the papacy.

Yes, John Paul II does proclaim rather loudly “Be Not Afraid”, but his job is like Peter’s. His voice is to be heard above all others (when I say others I am by no means inferring that anything the Pope said would be higher than God’s truth). He is to proclaim God’s word. God is using him to guide His (referring to God’s) Church. It is not that Catholics think the Pope is perfect (he does go to confession after all), but we trust that God (as he promised) will guide His Church into all truth. Apostolic succession demands that this pope’s position in relationship to God be recognized. He is “the vicar of Christ” on earth. Almost like an embassador. He is entrusted with God’s truth so that he might proclaim the teachings and doctrines of the Church as they were meant to be proclaimed.

(I know you personally may understand this but once I started I thought it wise to try and answer any questions that might arise later from other readers.)

I’m not sure what you mean by Catholic sects. But I think I know where some confusion might arise. Considering people around the world (since catholic does mean universal and the church is present all around the world in every country) may not be perfect examples or perhaps just ignorant of their religion, it is obvious that not everyone will practice exactly the same. However, it is the same Mass and the beliefs (however scattered they may be for an individual) did come from the same truth proclaimed by the Pope (and I hope but cannot state for sure) the Bishops and Priests around the world. Naturally, every slice of cake may not have the exact amount of ingredients as the one next to it but they are from the same mixture. I think you can agree that Protestant denominations and such tend to substitute ingredients or leave them out all together.

 

[Theodora]

Originally Posted by Becky
*Well since you invited me to do so, Bob and Penny Lord had a program on Mary that aired on EWTN a few weeks back that shocked and saddened me. It was on La Conquistadora-if dressing up a statue of Mary with priceless jewels and expensive clothes, parading the statue through the streets of Santa Fe, and people kneeling before it while it passed them is not worship, then, honestly speaking, I don’t know what is.

I have seen similar scenes at places like Lourdes and Fatima.

Becky *
Little Mary:

I sense a bit of arrogance in this post.

I might patiently point out that different cultures show love and respect for Mary in different ways. What you saw and what you understand are very clearly two different things here.

Please take the time to find out how Catholics regard Mary before you criticize anymore. If you have already looked into it, then you have discovered that Catholics do not worship Mary, and that we do not think of her as God, and you have chosen to ignore it. :nope:

Little Mary I can understand why you felt you had to defend what Becky wrote. But on the other hand, I think you were a little too harsch with Becky. To any nominal Catholic or non-Catholic, the display of devotion to Mary by Catholics can give the impression that we worship her, especially the part about the kneeling. Yes, Becky could have inquired why Catholics kneel before a statue of Mary. She was indignant because she probably feels that we only should bow down or kneel for God alone. It probably did not occur to Becky that when people meet the queen of England, for example, they will bow down before her and kiss her hand. Catholics do the same when they have an audience with the Pope. Bow down and kiss the Papal ring on his finger. When Becky sees this, she knows that the queen of England or the Pope is not being worshipped. She just did not make the connection of these instances, which I used as an example, with the display she saw of catholics who chooe to show their deep love for Mary in the same manner.

Now, Mary, my apologies if I seem to be to harsh with you.

 

[Becky]

Little Mary:

I might patiently point out that different cultures show love and respect for Mary in different ways. What you saw and what you understand are very clearly two different things here.

I agree, however; noone from that culture has explained this to me.

Please take the time to find out how Catholics regard Mary before you criticize anymore. If you have already looked into it, then you have discovered that Catholics do not worship Mary, and that we do not think of her as God, and you have chosen to ignore it. :nope:

I know that the RCC teaches that RCs are not to worship Mary, however; that teaching seems lost on some RCs around the world. You cannot tell me that you know the hearts of RCs all across the world, and that no RC worships Mary. The OP invited me to post what I felt was strange that RCs do. Well, I find this practice very strange and saddening, and I have still yet to get a satisfactory answer.

Becky

 

[Becky]

Theodora:

Little Mary I can understand why you felt you had to defend what Becky wrote. But on the other hand, I think you were a little too harsch with Becky. To any nominal Catholic or non-Catholic, the display of devotion to Mary by Catholics can give the impression that we worship her, especially the part about the kneeling.

Thank you I was simply answering the OP: For all the non-Catholics on the board, please enlighten me on some of the things that we Catholics do/believe that seem extremely odd/strange to you. Perhaps we can help clear up some of the misconceptions.

I’m not an RC, and I see this as an “extreme odd/strange” practice. I said nothing about what the RCC teaches concerning Mary and worship, I only said that I felt very confused about this display. If you don’t get a satisfactory answer in one place well then you ask RCs in another Would you rather have me ask my questions at the *Former Catholics for Christ *MB? I’m sure that I can get several opinions there. Gosh, apparantly, even if I am invited to give my opinion I’m attacked

Yes, Becky could have inquired why Catholics kneel before a statue of Mary. She was indignant because she probably feels that we only should bow down or kneel for God alone. It probably did not occur to Becky that when people meet the queen of England, for example, they will bow down before her and kiss her hand.

I know full well what the practice of bowing before royalty. For instance, Prince Charles knelt before his mother (and sovereign) and professed his loyalty to her at his Prince of Wales investiture ceremony. However, QEII is a living breathing monarch, and I don’t feel that one can compare showing respect for QEII’s sovereignty and a man-made statue.

Catholics do the same when they have an audience with the Pope. Bow down and kiss the Papal ring on his finger. When Becky sees this, she knows that the queen of England or the Pope is not being worshipped. She just did not make the connection of these instances, which I used as an example, with the display she saw of catholics who chooe to show their deep love for Mary in the same manner.

If these RCs are not worshipping Mary then why are they treating a mere statue like this?

Thank you for your respectful post Thoedora

Becky

 

[jc_escobar]

Hi Becky,

The truth of the matter is that neither you nor anyone else will be able to know what is in the heart of those people kneeling down to the staue of the virgin Mary.
However that doesn’t mean that they were for sure wirshiping it as an idol. There might have been some who did and some who didn’t, but that is not really what is important. I’ve seen many Protestant ministers who seem to be worshiping money and it seems all the purpose of their homily (or whatever they call it) is to get the money out of the faithful. However I don’t know their heart and that is something that should be left to God to Judge since He is the one who knows everybodys heart. What is important is for it to be very clear that the Catholic Curch doesn’t approve worship to neither Mary or the Saints. Nor does she give them any status equal nor above God.

 

[Theodora]

Becky:

I know full well what the practice of bowing before royalty. For instance, Prince Charles knelt before his mother (and sovereign) and professed his loyalty to her at his Prince of Wales investiture ceremony. However, QEII is a living breathing monarch, and I don’t feel that one can compare showing respect for QEII’s sovereignty and a man-made statue.

Sorry Becky if you felt attacked. It was not my intention. But let me try again re:

If these RCs are not worshipping Mary then why are they treating a mere statue like this?

The “mere statue” represents a living, more alive person than you could possibly imagine, while you’re still on earth. It is Mary in Heaven, in the constant presence of God. Many Catholics relate very strongly to Jesus’ mother, who they also consider a mother to them. (Jesus is our brother, so his mother is also our mother.)

Many Catholics express themselves outwardly to what they feel on the inside. When they do, it might offend others who do not understand their actions. (You can tell Catholics really don’t care what others think, they know that God knows what’s it all about.)

Why do Catholics relate so well to Mary? Because they understand and know that what the CC teaches about Mary is true, validated by personal experience(s).

She is a powerful intercessor with Jesus. Jesus will always listen to her. Mary is perfectly united with Jesus (God), Jesus cannot turn her requests down. Her wishes are his wishes. I, as a mother, while raising three children, noticed the dynamics of intercession during daily life. When the children want something, but knew that most likely daddy would deny the request, they would turn to mom to get what they wanted.

Try to find out why the people in Europe are so enraptured by Mary known by the title La Conquistadora. Read and marvel about the historic event, the Battle of Lepanto, recounting the victory of a small fleet of ships of christians being hopelessly attacked by a Turkish armada. With Mary’s help, the small, Christian-Catholic fleet totally destroyed the armada, by among other things, using spiritual weapons Mary had given in previous apparitions: the Rosary, the Brown Scapular. Find out for yourself what these articles really represent, not what it appears to you or what anybody else will tell you about them.

Read a good account of what happened at Lourdes, and what is still happening. The story of Fatima: Warnings for people to return to God, otherwise great calamities will occurr. To validate her appearances at Fatima that the messages are authentic and from God, she said that the whole world would know when a calamity will begin. A great, strange, unexplained light appeared over Europe before WWII broke out. (It is apparent that people had quickly forgotten the messages that Mary had delivered from God. Fatima apparations were so spectacular, that even secular newspapers at that time reported the occurences.)

Mary’s warnings at Fatima include the time we now live in. Her (God’s) requests are simple and easy to follow. Turn back to God, stay close to Him, adore God, fast, pray much and show that you’re serious about it by making sacrifices. If enough people would do this, the power of the evil one over the world will be dramactically reduced. I don’t too many people are listening…

The point, Becky: Outward expression of devotion of the inward emotions and convictions a person has, and of the possession of infused certainty (Faith), of it all

God bless you. Hope this is of some help…

 

[Little_Mary]

Becky:

I agree, however; noone from that culture has explained this to me.

I know that the RCC teaches that RCs are not to worship Mary, however; that teaching seems lost on some RCs around the world. You cannot tell me that you know the hearts of RCs all across the world, and that no RC worships Mary. The OP invited me to post what I felt was strange that RCs do. Well, I find this practice very strange and saddening, and I have still yet to get a satisfactory answer.

Becky

Hello Becky,

First I want to apologize to you and to Theodora (hello Theodora) for coming across too harsh. I re-read my post and I did sound pretty unfriendly. I am truly sorry.

It is true that different cultures have different ways of venerating Mary and the saints; however, they do not worship her or think of her as equal to God. It is also true that RC’s are not *obligated *to do what you saw on television. If it seems strange and saddening to you, it might make you feel better to know that (??). You saw the actions of people who love her dearly, but who remember that Christ is at the center of it all. You suggest that the church’s teachings might be lost on some of these people and that they have taken it too far, …well, if they have then they need our prayers that the Good Lord will straighten them out. I can assure you that the Blessed Mother herself would want them (and all of us) to focus on Christ and not on her. That is her mantra it seems - to pray and follow Jesus. Even the rosary is centered in the life of Christ.

When my husband joined the church, one of the other candidates asked if she would be considered a “bad Catholic” if she did not say the rosary or the Hail Mary because she was not comfortable with it. The answer is “No, you are absolutely NOT a bad Catholic”.

And yes, I think I can say what is in the hearts of RC’s all across the world - they love Mary but do not think of her as God and do not worship her. Anyone who does, if they do, (worship Mary) is going against the church’s teachings and should not call themselves a RC.

My original point was that even when a satisfactory answer is given (“No, we don’t worship Mary and she is not equal to God”) it is ignored. It seems like that is what you are doing here. I am sorry if that sounds harsh, or if that is not truly the case, it just seemed that way to me based on what I’ve read so far.

Peace to you