I just can't believe in god

[mikijam]

Curtis & Alexii,

I’m a parent of a sick newborn. My faith is my comfort and my support. It sustains me greatly. But after a long day of worry and disapointing test results, consoling my wife and supporting our other child, my game face crumbles and fear and doubt rush in. I am by no means the worst off in the world, don’t get me wrong, but I feel the blackness of despair and wonder if my faith is misplaced, especially when things don’t go the way I and others have been praying for. I say the right things, that “God will see us through,” but at times it’s hard to believe.

Then the feeling passes and I step back and take a look around. For me the existence of God is undeniable. All one has to do is look to particle physics (have you seen the LHC rap? clever) to know there are many things in our physical world we can’t see or touch. We presume they are there because of the effects they produce. Whenever the news reports that someone has discovered a new planet, they usually leave out that one cannot see said planet, they infer it’s existence based on the wobble of the nearby star (putting it simply).

So in the world of scientific fact (which I presume you have no problem with), there are many things based on inference and presumption of things that can never be seen or felt or heard or tasted.

So can you believe in God if you witness His influence in the world?

 

[RebeccaJ]

I keep thinking about your question - and have done so over the past couple of days. I long for faith as I long for unconditional love.

Four years ago I decided to embark on a ‘spiritual quest’, to look at various religions and value systems, and to try to understand first of all why humankind has so persistently - since the beginning of man-time - needed to have belief or faith in a higher Being. I will deal with that later.

I embarked from atheism, an experiment really, to see if I could “find faith”. Figure out what it is. Why other people had it and I didn’t.

Miracles? They exist. My Faith is one of them.

My thoughts are, on the rest of what you said…very well thought out, but I wonder when you are going to apply the skepticism you do to religion, to the limited knowledge of humans.

That is where those arguments fell apart for me.

 

[Swan]

Boy, I feel like I wrote the OP. Retreats, adoration, prayer, study, counsel with priests, etc, over a little more than a decade, and nothing helped strengthen my crumbling faith which I desperately clung to.

Touching on some of the earlier posts’ points, having faith in the Christian God and having faith that Europe exists are two very different things. I can travel to Europe at any time. While there is good evidence for a man named Jesus, the supernatural aspects of it don’t add up very concretely to me, especially when you’ve got people from many other religions that say their religion is the truth because they have XYZ that religion B,C,D, doesn’t have.

Pascal’s wager is also faulty because it does not take into account many things, such as what if you are worshiping the wrong god, or, what if god will only get angrier that the main reason you are worshiping him is to selfishly get into heaven, etc.

Faith is not a light switch, it is not a choice, IMHO. I can not honestly choose to believe in the tooth fairy, as it makes no sense to me, nor can I choose belief in the Catholic God. Researching comparative religion has only loosened my strands of faith.

It bothers me when people automatically assume that those who are not Christian have ‘chosen’ that path “of their own selfish desires, to make themselves gods, because it is easier, because they want to sin, they don’t really want faith, they did not ask for it correctly, it is a phase”, etc. Many automatically turn it against the person, saying there is something wrong with them if they don’t have faith.

This link is of a person’s loss of faith journey from fundamentalist Christian to atheist, and the majority of it echoes a lot with my story, and possibly yours too. It is very well written.

iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=72552

Feel free to PM me if you’d like. It is a tough road to be on.

I can really relate to you and the OP. I was a Christian for a long time (Catholic & Baptist). After much searching and many struggles (many having to do with my experiences as a person with bipolar disorder) I simply faced the fact that without faith - which I lost - I could no longer believe in the Christian God. People keep quoting scripture and suggesting Bible reading - well, that only works if you believe the Bible is inspired. I don’t. I’ve done some research on the development of scripture (as well as its contents) and find there is no reason to believe it happened. This is the trouble with all revealed religions - to buy into the belief system you have to have faith in the revelations it is based on. Personally, I have to go with my own experience.
If faith is a gift, I guess some of us just weren’t on the gift list.

Having said all of that, I admit I do believe in something. Which is why arguments about the universe, supernatural, miracles, etc., as “proof” of the Christian God carry no weight with me because there is no proof that the Christian God is responsible for anything. It is only through faith that these folks believe it is so.

As for the folks who commented that those of us who don’t believe “stopped trying” - well, I can only reply that it may seem simple to you as you armchair quarterback my life - but since you haven’t walked a mile in my moccasins I’d suggest you hold back on the rash conclusions and give us the benefit of the doubt.

 

[reen12]

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion. I hope not too many people jump all over at once for this post. Take care.
-Curtis

And that, Curtis, is one of the most intelligent comments, on the
subject, that I have encountered, in 50 years of reading.
I congradulate you on this acutely accurate statment of the case.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence…

I do thank you for this observation.

reen12

 

[Starwynd]

The thing about that claim of extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is:

If there is extraordinary evidence then it’s too good to be true.

 

[Mijoy2]

I have tried so hard over the past ten years to believe in god; specifically the christian god but I just can’t. To believe in something, I need to be able to verify it with at least one of the five senses that god supposedly blessed us with and/or indisputable archeological/historical evidence.

I can’t just believe in something because everybody around me does; I am just not wired that way. I would love to believe and have faith in god but no evidence points in that direction.

I have looked at previous answers here on the boards so please don’t use the “how do you know that you exist?” argument. I guess if blind faith is what it takes to be saved and the christian god exists, I’ll just be outta luck. There, however, is no proof that I have ever seen for the existance of god, satan, heaven, hell, or anything else of that nature.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion. I hope not too many people jump all over at once for this post. Take care.

-Curtis

Curtis,

I probably will not offer any advice you haven’t already considered but since you posted, I suspect you are looking for responses.

Begin by admitting that God is at least as feasible as any other option to why you are here and why there is a universe.

Then consider all the options and attempt to realize which option you would like to be Truth.

If your answer is the Christian God, study, study and study some more. Read the wonderful suggestions others have offered you. Read Mere Christianity, Reasons to Believe – by Scot Hahn.

Understand the hows and whys taught in the Catchecism. Don’t give up.

I’ll pray for you. I used to feel exactly as you do and, at times, still do.

–Mike

 

[BRB]

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion.

-Curtis

Raised from the dead … not extrodinary enough for you ?

Then again … if you had lived 2000 years ago and witnessed it all. Had you guarded the tomb … would you of needed any FAITH to believe ? YES.

Even the disciples needed Faith, to make their life decision to follow Christ upon. Same for us … there will never be enuf scientific proof to base a decision upon.

Once you exhibit Faith … God gives you all the proof you will need to persist in your belief. If he gave you the proof ‘up front’ … no Faith would be needed.

 

[notsmart]

Start out in steps. See God in creation, see God in those you love, see God in a puddle of water or a newborn baby. Think about how you may talk to God in prayer if you wanted to pray.

Baby steps help.

I have tried so hard over the past ten years to believe in god; specifically the christian god but I just can’t. To believe in something, I need to be able to verify it with at least one of the five senses that god supposedly blessed us with and/or indisputable archeological/historical evidence.

I can’t just believe in something because everybody around me does; I am just not wired that way. I would love to believe and have faith in god but no evidence points in that direction.

I have looked at previous answers here on the boards so please don’t use the “how do you know that you exist?” argument. I guess if blind faith is what it takes to be saved and the christian god exists, I’ll just be outta luck. There, however, is no proof that I have ever seen for the existance of god, satan, heaven, hell, or anything else of that nature.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion. I hope not too many people jump all over at once for this post. Take care.

-Curtis

 

[Methodi]

The best proof to me that there is a God is the miracle of Birth alone, our ability to love, enjoy all the things that The Lord has made.
The perfect balance of nature.
When God created the world he put there within the earth all the things he knew man would need, the earth keeps spewing forth what we need.
God gives us life & he takes it away, also anotherproof of God is the fact that we do eventually die, we run to all kinds of doctors to save us , but we can be saved only so many times, The Doctor eventually dies too, we all go kicking & screaming to our death, but we go anyway .
also look at all the different species of animals & insects etc, man cannot create them, there has to be an Almighty God who created all this

 

[Steve40]

Well I tried to pray for both of us to have more faith. After saying that prayer, I could feel deepdown that I have no faith whatsoever. That prayer did one thing. It affirmed that I have barely a traceable drop of faith left; if that. It’s sobering but helped show me where I stand. Thank you for that. Good luck with finding your faith.

No answer, is an answer, especially when it comes to prayer. But the answer may not be no, and in fact I don’t believe it is no.

9 times out of 10, OK maybe 6 times out of 10 depending upon what you are asking for the answer from God is, keep asking, not no.

Don’t stop praying. Don’t stop asking.

Thanks for your prayers for me. I do believe that God heard them. I’ll keep praying for you.

Steve

 

[reen12]

The thing about that claim of extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is:

If there is extraordinary evidence then it’s too good to be true.

The Apostle Thomas said, in so many words:
I will not believe this, unless…etc.

The extraordinary claim - that Jesus rose from the dead -
is testified to by those who saw him, ate fish sandwiches
with him, on the beach, and waved goodbye when he
floated skywards. At least that’s the extraordinary
assertions of some of his followers, n’est-ce pas?

Take it as read, and one becomes a Christian.

Which, supposedly, is a gift of grace.

Say: “Are you kidding me? Get real. Nobody comes back
from the dead.”

Lazarus, call your office…http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

I figure most people are born into the religious group that they
will spend their lives in, and it then becomes big news - if
one changes from one major religion to another.
Or - one leaves the religion, practiced by one’s familly, at the
very first opportunity - ‘extraordinary evidence,’ or not.

It’s all based on testimony, written nearly 20 centuries ago.
One gets the ‘good news’ 2nd hand, as it were.
One finds this testimony credible or far from credible.

Which gives us the word “Creed.”

Credo in unum Deum…

reen12 :tiphat:

 

[reen12]

At the age of 6, I was presented with the news that God is,
and that He made me and everything else.
It seemed ‘reasonable’ to me, at age 6, and 56 years
later, it still seems reasonable.

I can’t get down to proof-texts, scriptures and the like.
That, to me, is like trying to reason someone into love.
I’ve got the academic credentials, to speak of God in terms polysyllabic.
That means - literally, nothing. No-thing.

It’s the stars in the sky at night. Did He put them there
so that His lambs would delight in playing connect-the-dots?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

With all of the suffering that life can bring -
there are His stars, ever shining in the night sky.
He put them there for our joy, and as an anodyne,
for life’s pain. A promise of that which is to come.

reen12

 

[curtishouse29]

Well it seems this thread has picked up even more. I just thought I should tell you all that I have regained my faith; slowly but surely!

Even though all of your responses are wonderful and truly did made me think, what really got me focused back on Jesus Christ happened on YouTube. There is this one user on there named “fsmdude” and he continually defiles the Host in horrible ways. When I first saw this, I was so outraged…An atheist on the site asked me why I was so angry about it…That really made me think…It’s because I do believe in Jesus Christ and that he is Present in the Holy Eucharist! That really helped turn the corner for me.

On top of all that, out of the blue, my mother-in-law called me today and they (my MIL and FIL) started going to RCIA tonight and I’m going to start going next week! I made a video about this whole desecration of the Holy Eucharist and how God turned such a disgusting and vile act by fsmdude into something beautiful like bringing me back to the faith. Thank you all for replying and if you want to check out my YT videos as well, my url is www.youtube.com/curtishouse31. God bless you all and may you all stay strong in the faith and please keep praying for me. I truly need it so much!

-Curtis

 

[Dark_Warrior]

Well it seems this thread has picked up even more. I just thought I should tell you all that I have regained my faith; slowly but surely!

Even though all of your responses are wonderful and truly did made me think, what really got me focused back on Jesus Christ happened on YouTube. There is this one user on there named “fsmdude” and he continually defiles the Host in horrible ways. When I first saw this, I was so outraged…An atheist on the site asked me why I was so angry about it…That really made me think…It’s because I do believe in Jesus Christ and that he is Present in the Holy Eucharist! That really helped turn the corner for me.

On top of all that, out of the blue, my mother-in-law called me today and they (my MIL and FIL) started going to RCIA tonight and I’m going to start going next week! I made a video about this whole desecration of the Holy Eucharist and how God turned such a disgusting and vile act by fsmdude into something beautiful like bringing me back to the faith. Thank you all for replying and if you want to check out my YT videos as well, my url is www.youtube.com/curtishouse31. God bless you all and may you all stay strong in the faith and please keep praying for me. I truly need it so much!

-Curtis

wow, how beautiful, how awesome!! Praise be to God brother. I too, was hanging on the brink, but am slowly regaining faith and am going to confession this Saturday, Lord knows I need it. So your story helped me too.

I know it’s rough and difficult, and I highly respect you for discrediting that blasphemous youtube video (youtube is where much of my faith got lost, from communicating with so many mean-spirited arrogant atheists).

I respect you friend,

 

[anon52328184]

curtis,

my faith has had its ups and downs too over many years.

since you are going to start RCIA, you better prepare for spiritual warfare, because you know who doesn’t want you to be part of the Catholic church and the Church Militant. you are easier to attack when you are alone. i felt really attacked, however, after i was confirmed. that first month was a real battle spiritually, but i feel like i made it.

just push ahead and once you get involved in the RCIA i think you will feel better. try to immerse yourself in the mass, adoration of the blessed sacrament, reading, etc.

i agree that doing a lot of reading about the Catholic church, early church fathers, the saints helps a lot. it all kind of has to take its time to merge into one faith in your mind. for awhile, it will be hard to get it to all fit together, just don’t give up!

good luck Curtis!!

 

[curtishouse29]

wow, how beautiful, how awesome!! Praise be to God brother. I too, was hanging on the brink, but am slowly regaining faith and am going to confession this Saturday, Lord knows I need it. So your story helped me too.

I know it’s rough and difficult, and I highly respect you for discrediting that blasphemous youtube video (youtube is where much of my faith got lost, from communicating with so many mean-spirited arrogant atheists).

I respect you friend,

Yeah I got sucked into that athiest garbage on there as well…it was hard fighting out of that mess but I made it out for now…I’m really going to have to be strong in the faith now since I start RCIA next week…I know satan and his little cronies will be attacking my unbelief bigtime. Please pray for me and Ill be praying for you as well and I’m glad my story helped you out.

-Curtis

 

[curtishouse29]

curtis,

my faith has had its ups and downs too over many years.

since you are going to start RCIA, you better prepare for spiritual warfare, because you know who doesn’t want you to be part of the Catholic church and the Church Militant. you are easier to attack when you are alone. i felt really attacked, however, after i was confirmed. that first month was a real battle spiritually, but i feel like i made it.

just push ahead and once you get involved in the RCIA i think you will feel better. try to immerse yourself in the mass, adoration of the blessed sacrament, reading, etc.

i agree that doing a lot of reading about the Catholic church, early church fathers, the saints helps a lot. it all kind of has to take its time to merge into one faith in your mind. for awhile, it will be hard to get it to all fit together, just don’t give up!

good luck Curtis!!

Thanks for the advice…I know youre right especially since youve already been down this road…Thats why I need as many prayers as people can give me and I’m going to try to immerse myself in the church and with other Catholics in real life as well. The worst thing in the world is being alone and being left to your own devices. God bless you debbie!

-Curtis

 

[SFTor]

I have tried so hard over the past ten years to believe in god; specifically the christian god but I just can’t. To believe in something, I need to be able to verify it with at least one of the five senses that god supposedly blessed us with and/or indisputable archeological/historical evidence.

I can’t just believe in something because everybody around me does; I am just not wired that way. I would love to believe and have faith in god but no evidence points in that direction.

I have looked at previous answers here on the boards so please don’t use the “how do you know that you exist?” argument. I guess if blind faith is what it takes to be saved and the christian god exists, I’ll just be outta luck. There, however, is no proof that I have ever seen for the existance of god, satan, heaven, hell, or anything else of that nature.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion. I hope not too many people jump all over at once for this post. Take care.

-Curtis

Hi Curtis:

I assume I will be reviled for this comment, but here it is:

stop trying, Don’ t ask for anything from anyone. I live my life in full happiness without a god. I don’t give it much thought even. So can you.

Best,

Tor

 

[Jack_245814]

I have tried so hard over the past ten years to believe in god; specifically the christian god but I just can’t. To believe in something, I need to be able to verify it with at least one of the five senses that god supposedly blessed us with and/or indisputable archeological/historical evidence.

I can’t just believe in something because everybody around me does; I am just not wired that way. I would love to believe and have faith in god but no evidence points in that direction.

I have looked at previous answers here on the boards so please don’t use the “how do you know that you exist?” argument. I guess if blind faith is what it takes to be saved and the christian god exists, I’ll just be outta luck. There, however, is no proof that I have ever seen for the existance of god, satan, heaven, hell, or anything else of that nature.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion. I hope not too many people jump all over at once for this post. Take care.

-Curtis

I can relate. There is no good logical proof of the existence of any sort of deity that I’ve heard.

It’s not a matter of “proving that God exists” . . . more like if you accept he exists and try to love and worship and imitate him, it really does change your behavior and the way you live your life. I don’t really know how to describe it, but there’s just something different about really good Christians. If you’re ever blessed enough to meet one you’ll see what I mean.

Even if the atheists are right - I don’t believe they are but even if they were - my faith would still be completely worthwhile because it has made me a vastly better person.

That’s really the only good answer I can give you - though you should certainly check out the books/articles people link you, maybe there’s something good in there.

The other reason to believe in God is that eventually science will not be able to explain existence itself, even if it can define all of its laws - which I seriously doubt it ever will be able to, since it seems like the more we learn about the natural world, the more complex it gets. So why not choose as the answer to these questions (and other questions science has failed to answer, like morality) a system of religion and right-living which has worked for billions of people for 2,000 years, and has essentially created Western civilization as we know it today?

When it comes to questions for which no answer is logically provable - the sorts of questions that religion answers - it’s best to judge the tree by its fruit, and I assure you that the fruit of Roman Catholicism is sweet indeed

Good luck!

 

[SFTor]

wow, how beautiful, how awesome!! Praise be to God brother. I too, was hanging on the brink, but am slowly regaining faith and am going to confession this Saturday, Lord knows I need it. So your story helped me too.

I know it’s rough and difficult, and I highly respect you for discrediting that blasphemous youtube video (youtube is where much of my faith got lost, from communicating with so many mean-spirited arrogant atheists).

I respect you friend,

Atheists are not mean-spirited or arrogant any more than any others are. Stop calling names, it should be beneath you.

The words you have spoken are words of intolerance. Maybe you should consider how your faith can protect you from this fallacy.