I Know Why I Hate Everything

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

**John, you brought things back to topic in a lovely, kind and gentle way.

Defending ****and arguing about ****hate may not be helpful to ****Flavius_Aetius, who isn’t happy about hating, just feels unhappily stuck with it, as many past threads and posts over the last couple of years have shown.

But your caring post returns focus to ****Flavius_Aetius who perhaps may visit the thread despite losing posting rights.
Thanks for setting things right, John, in hope that the OP will not feel lost in the discussion but instead will feel relevant and valued.

Hopefully ****Flavius_Aetius ****will ****find a good way forwards.

Thanks, John.

We do wish you the best and you can be confident that some of us will keep praying for you Flavius_Aetius.
**

And what have the talks and persuasions about giving up hate has done for Flavius_Aetius?

The last post was, and I quote:

Damn it, I can’t do this…

I can’t lie to myself and say I’ll change; I’ll never change - sorry for even putting up false hope.

I’m in an unbreakable prison of self-hate, which radiates out to anger at God and Man. Nothing works, stroking and calm words don’t seem to get through as mentioned earlier, tough love and getting aggressive about caring of others just stokes anger in my heart, and Isolation drives me crazy because I know that “No one outside your family will miss you.” Hell plenty of times online I know that if I were to just stop posting the world would continue. In fact that’s a fact in real life too, no one cares about the dead or lost. I know I’m the worst kind of judgmental person, and that’s why I can’t live in total isolation either. I cannot stand the idea of all of us putting on fake smiles and the world becoming more tolerant and liberal with every passing day! I almost feel that’s my purpose, to be judgmental in a world where everyone expects nothing but bloody praise for each immorality they accomplish!

I admire Socrates, he was cynical of his fellow Athenians and died without ever bowing down to what they wanted to hear from him. I only wish I was as clever and calm minded as him, but the fact is I’m not. He’s a hero, yet would probably see me as little more than a brute of a cynic without any moral fiber to me.

It is funny, Trishie, but isn’t it you who said

We are not all carbon copies of each other and we don’t all have to express our love of God and goodness, and our grief about sin in the way everyone else thinks we must.
If this isn’t true, then I don’t belong here.

So stop convincing him to stop hating! Stop using that cookie cutter of yours on him!

[Edit] Instead, convince him to hate the right way, what to hate truly, and THEN he will start loving rightly and his wrath, his lingering hate, will diminish.

As I have said in my first post,

In fact, I will dare say that a great hater is a great lover!

Hate is an evidence of a lover, Trishie. The two, love and hate, cannot exist without the other, just as someone who runs towards something must run away from something else.

God love you, and God love Flavius_Aetius.

 

[Trishie]

You need to have had dealings with depressed people to know that words and arguments do not help or change anything. **Flavius_Aetius has told us that he lives in a bad domestic situation where his step-mother continually bad-mouths him to his father.
It is not any of your words or mine that can help him.
He needs to take action himself, to leave the toxic home, if possible, and make practical efforts to undo the damage, and to counter-act his profound self-hate.
Jesus said, "love others as you love yourself. He needs help to love himself, and anyone who suffers severe chronic depression knows how difficult that is. I do, because I have known persons with such deep ongoing depression that even the psychologist ended up throwing up his hands. ** We can talk all we want, but **** Flavius_Aetius needs to take positive action to heal his life so that he sees something in others than hatefulness and worthlessness in himself, in others, in the world. **
**
I can try to encourage him to see good in people, and you can persuade him to hate, all we want, but it’s not going to change anything. He needs to seek personal healing, and not to see people arguing because of his thread.

Once again, you did not read my last post in which I said that because the poor young man hasn’t learned to love, he doesn’t need to be inundated with further hate. I have followed his posts for a long time, and he is profoundly depressed, considering all he has said.

 

[nuntym]

You need to have had dealings with depressed people to know that words and arguments do not help or change anything. **Flavius_Aetius **has told us that he lives in a bad domestic situation where his step-mother continually bad-mouths him to his father.
It is not any of your words or mine that can help him.
He needs to take action himself, to leave the toxic home, if possible, and make practical efforts to undo the damage.

In other words, he has to hate his situation because he loves himself, and he has to take action based on that love and hate.

Can you see now what I am trying to say? He should not hate himself, he should not hate his stepmother, but hate what she is doing to him because not only is she hurting him but hurting herself!

I can try to encourage him to see good in people, and you can persuade him to hate, all we want, but it’s not going to change anything. He needs to seek personal healing, and not to see people arguing because of his thread.

And he cannot see the goodness of other people if he cannot hate their sins! Because the sins are not the sinners! He has to distinguish the people from their actions, Trishie. That is all what I am trying to say. What Flavius_Aetius is doing is lumping the sins with the sinners, which it should not be! That is the beginning of wrath, Trishie, the beginning of lingering, uncontrollable hatred and anger, and it WILL become worse if you tell him to see the goodness of others without telling him that evil is something foreign to us.

Once again, you did not read my last post in which I said that because the poor young man hasn’t learned to love, he doesn’t need to be inundated with further hate. I have followed his posts for a long time, and he is profoundly depressed, considering all he has said.

Oh I have read alright, it seems it is you who keep on mistaking what I am saying, Trishie.

God love you.

 

[Trishie]

He already hates the world, he already hates sins, so very profoundly, that from all he says he sees nothing else, and it hasn’t worked to make him love God others or himself.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

He already hates the world, he already hates sins, so very profoundly, that from all he says he sees nothing else, and it hasn’t worked to make him love God others or himself.

No, he sees sinners lumped with sin, and he hates both. Didn’t you read his first post? He has to distinguish them, or he will never recover.

God love you.

 

[Trishie]

Because he is profoundly depressed. Perhaps you had had no experience of what depression does to people. I’m married to a long term chronically depressed person who was a convert beome atheist because he blamed God for his breakdown. I know very well how powerless one is with words or actions in relation to a person who suffers that. You can do your absolute best but the only person who can change their worldview is themselves.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Because he is profoundly depressed. Perhaps you had had no experience of what depression does to people.

I can say all these with conviction because I HAVE CHRONIC DEPRESSION, Trishie. It is understanding how to truly love, how to truly hate, how to be truly alive that keeps at bay my episodes of not wanting to move, not wanting to talk to people, feelings of hopelessness.

I have episodes even here in CAF (check my history) in which I drop from all activities here, even in the middle of debates and heartfelt talks, because I do not have the energy, the will, to even log on here.

Admittedly, my case is mild, I usually can handle without medication, but yes, I think I know what I am talking about, Trishie.

God love you.

 

[Trishie]

The continued attack on me has worked and I will only visit here to check private messages of people I know and trust.
I have had more than enough stress in my life not to wish to be under attack from people who choose to misunderstand and continue to attack me. I have been through an absolutely terrible couple of years espespecially and my autoimmune illness has not recovered from all the traumas, so though I have done my best here to support people and good, I cannot stay to have people put my heath at further risk. I don’t think I have deserved to be the object of a couple of people’s here continued attrack and put-downs. I didn’t know you but I would have expected kinder from the other person alongside whom I have prayed so many times. I will continue to pray for people as I always have even if not here.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

The continued attack on me has worked and I will only visit here to check private messages. I have had more than enough stress in my life not to wish to be under attack from people who choose to misunderstand and continue to attack me. I have been through an absolutely terrible couple of years esp[especially and my autoimmune illness has not recovered from all the traumas, so though I have done my best here to support people and good, I cannot stay to have people put my heath at further risk.

Goodness Trishie, now you want me to feel guilty for pointing out errors on your part, that you’re telling me those are attacks?

sigh Rest well and recover, Trishie. I’m keeping you in my prayers.

God love you.
[/quote]

 

[AlanFromWichita]

so though I have done my best here to support people and good, I cannot stay to have people put my heath at further risk.

Trishie, I understand but whether you post here or not, there are several of us that have your back, and we are not far from critical mass.

Goodness Trishie, now you want me to feel guilty for pointing out errors on your part, that you’re telling me those are attacks?

Potayto, potahto. There are ways to disagree without attacking, though I admit it can be very difficult to predict how it will come across to someone who has a different outlook than ourselves.

sigh Rest well and recover, Trishie. I’m keeping you in my prayers.

God love you.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

And what have the talks and persuasions about giving up hate has done for Flavius_Aetius?

I don’t know. You tell me. While you’re at it, what have the talks and persuasions that fuel and justify hate done for Flavius_Aetius?

Hate is an evidence of a lover, Trishie. The two, love and hate, cannot exist without the other, just as someone who runs towards something must run away from something else.

So if I want to find the best spouse, I should look for someone with the greatest depth of hatred?

This is dualistic-only thinking 101. Rhetorically, it is true that without having any concept of un-love we wouldn’t even need a word for love, because words are to convey messages that separate what we mean from what we don’t mean, and if love were truly omnipresent, then like a fish in water it wouldn’t even occur to us there was another way from which we would be distinguishing our current experiences.

If I were to take your statement as absolute fact, then I am logically forced to conclude that Jesus, being the greatest Lover in heaven and on earth, is also the most egregious hater in heaven and on earth. Are you prepared to accept that logical consequence of your claim?

I’ll give you a hint. It took that much love to counter the hatred in this world, but the hatred is not contained in the same fully-human heart as the love, at any given time. A person can hate, repent, and come to love, but love itself is contrary to hate, not a bed-partner.

It concerns me that you feel running toward something is equivalent to running away from something else. This particular flavor of dualism is only too prevalent, as we are taught from before we speak our first words, that doing good is teachable through fear of imminent punishment at any given time. That’s what Jesus came to save us from. He and the angels said “fear not.” He gave us His peace, not conditionally and temporarily like the world can give, but unconditionally and in eternity – which includes right now. I don’t want to live my life looking over my shoulder all the time I’m trying to do good, and I thank God for sending His Son to teach us a better way.

God love you, and God love Flavius_Aetius.

Alan

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

THOSE THAT ATTACKED AND OFFENDED TRISHIE SHOULD BE ASHAMED , KNOWLDGE IS RUBBISH UNLESS THAT KNOWLEDGE IS OR LEADS TO LOVE , THE ONLY PURPOSE OF KNOWLEDGE IS LOVE AS IT HAS IT’S SOURCE AND END IN LOVE , AND LOVE CONQUERS , DESTROYS AND ELIMINATES EVIL , HATE OR EVIL DESTROY LOVE COMPLETELY , SO THOSE WHO HATE OR ARE EVIL REALLY EXPRESS THEIR DESIRE TO DESTROY GOD , AND THE OP IS OBVIOUSLY SUFFERING DEPRESSION AND THE ANSWER TO DESTROYING THE RESULTING SICKNESS OF HATE IS TO LOVE AND SPREAD AS MUCH LOVE AS POSSIBLE , ESPECIALLY HIS WAY , BUT TO ALL , YOU ARE NOT OF GOD IF YOU NOT LOVE AS GOD IS LOVE , WHY DON’T YOU APOLOFGISE TO TRISHIE ALL WHO’VE OFFENDED HER ??? , EVEN IF YOU THINK YOUR RIGHT LOVE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BEING RIGHT , SHE’S CLEARY A VERY GOOD CATHOLIC , YOU’VE WRONGED HER VERY GREATLY HERE SOME OF YOU , AND DON’T GIVE ME THE I’M A BLEEDING HEART STORY OR TRY TO CORRECT ME ON THIS PLEASE , I’M RIGHT , AND THERE IS A TIME AND A PLACE FOR EVERYTHING , AND SOME HERE HAVE GOT IT VERY WRONG AND DRIVEN ONE OF CAF’S BEST MEMBERS OFF AND EVEN WORSE HURT HER , SHAME ON YOU , IF YOU REALLY KNEW GOD OR WERE OF GOD YOU COULD NOT DO THIS

 

[AlanFromWichita]

LOVE CONQUERS , DESTROYS AND ELIMINATES EVIL , HATE OR EVIL DESTROY LOVE COMPLETELY

go, Go, GO! kpeople:

WHY DON’T YOU APOLOFGISE TO TRISHIE ALL WHO’VE OFFENDED HER ??? , EVEN IF YOU THINK YOUR RIGHT LOVE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BEING RIGHT

Yeah. Trishie, like I said, we have your back.

IF YOU REALLY KNEW GOD OR WERE OF GOD YOU COULD NOT DO THIS

Just keep planting seeds, brother. At some point they will find good ground, and when they do grow, those who are resisting the most will experience the most peace and freedom. :dancing: There is clearly lots of fertilizer at hand.

John, I’m happy you are here with us. Sometimes those of us who have had to experience, should I say, “alternative realities,” are in the best position to assess the version of reality that serves as the status quo. :whacky:

I think a musical interlude is in order. I recommend “The Prophet’s Song” by Queen. It’s over 8 minutes long, but it’s worth listening to all the way through.

Alan

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

go, Go, GO! kpeople:

Yeah. Trishie, like I said, we have your back.

Just keep planting seeds, brother. At some point they will find good ground, and when they do grow, those who are resisting the most will experience the most peace and freedom. :dancing: There is clearly lots of fertilizer at hand.

John, I’m happy you are here with us. Sometimes those of us who have had to experience, should I say, “alternative realities,” are in the best position to assess the version of reality that serves as the status quo. :whacky:

I think a musical interlude is in order. I recommend “The Prophet’s Song” by Queen. It’s over 8 minutes long, but it’s worth listening to all the way through.

Alan

… dear alan ,

… thx for your support for trishie and myself too , i’m going to listen to that song now dear friend ,

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

go, Go, GO! kpeople:

Yeah. Trishie, like I said, we have your back.

Just keep planting seeds, brother. At some point they will find good ground, and when they do grow, those who are resisting the most will experience the most peace and freedom. :dancing: There is clearly lots of fertilizer at hand.

John, I’m happy you are here with us. Sometimes those of us who have had to experience, should I say, “alternative realities,” are in the best position to assess the version of reality that serves as the status quo.

I think a musical interlude is in order. I recommend “The Prophet’s Song” by Queen. It’s over 8 minutes long, but it’s worth listening to all the way through.

Alan

… great tune dear friend , haven’t heard that one before , god bless and love you , john

 

[ready]

+JMJ+

Goodness Trishie, now you want me to feel guilty for pointing out errors on your part, that you’re telling me those are attacks?

sigh Rest well and recover, Trishie. I’m keeping you in my prayers.

God love you.

Yes, Trishie, I feel the same way. It was you who were attacking the Church’s view of “love the sinner, hate the sin” and St. Paul’s teaching that “our love must be sincere; detest what is evil; cling to what is good.” And nothing was directed at you deliberately to hurt your feelings, just to get you to form your conscience and accept what St. Augustine and St. Paul (and many, many saints have said about hating sin). In your last post you finally admit that these saints are right, and so all is well again. I’m afraid it was you who were misunderstanding me all along, not the other way around. And I just want to add that I do not think of St. Therese as sentimental, but as a true lover of God and despiser of sin, as were all the saints.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Yes, Trishie, I feel the same way. It was you who were attacking the Church’s view of “love the sinner, hate the sin” and St. Paul’s teaching that “our love must be sincere; detest what is evil; cling to what is good.” And nothing was directed at you deliberately to hurt your feelings, just to get you to form your conscience and accept what St. Augustine and St. Paul (and many, many saints have said about hating sin). In your last post you finally admit that these saints are right, and so all is well again. I’m afraid it was you who were misunderstanding me all along, not the other way around. And I just want to add that I do not think of St. Therese as sentimental, but as a true lover of God and despiser of sin, as were all the saints.

… dear friend ready ,

… great to meet again , but don’t you think the op clearly indicates a very high likelihood of clinical depression or some similiar illness , and if that is the case we can forget about sin and just focus on trying to fix his mind so he thinks correctly , and we should not focus on sin or no in this situation , and in any case , but especially this one , are we not supposed to never judge being condemn guilty of sin dear friend , is that not jesus’ teaching ??? , trishies a wonderful woman and unless i’m missing something she had the right aproach to this man , i hope we remain friends as i’ve seen you around a long time and talked before , but do you really believe trishie fouled up and deserved to be hurt this way dear ready ??? ,

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[Trishie]

You believed I was, interpreting my language that way, but it was never the case, Ready.

 

[Trishie]

Nor did I ever state a rejection of the scripture, you unfortunately interpreted it as such.

I must remain aware that, as in any kind of relationship like marriage, because of different backgrounds, different natures, and different focuses coming from a more mathematical and literal or a more creative mind will see things differently. Even after over forty years my husband and occasionally don’t understand each other and I’m hurt by something he says, he is impatient, because of something I’ve said, and neither actually meant it that way.
I don’t reject the scripture at all, but I did reject the excessive joy one poster was taking in hate especially in the first of his such posts. It was that *celebration of hate *that I objected to and my response was an effort to counteract such celebration of hate.

 

[ready]

… dear friend ready ,

… great to meet again , but don’t you think the op clearly indicates a very high likelihood of clinical depression or some similiar illness , and if that is the case we can forget about sin and just focus on trying to fix his mind so he thinks correctly , and we should not focus on sin or no in this situation , and in any case , but especially this one , are we not supposed to never judge being condemn guilty of sin dear friend , is that not jesus’ teaching ??? , trishies a wonderful woman and unless i’m missing something she had the right aproach to this man , i hope we remain friends as i’ve seen you around a long time and talked before , but do you really believe trishie fouled up and deserved to be hurt this way dear ready ??? ,

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

Dear John, it is you who are judging and condemning if you are saying that I judged or condemned Trishie. I wasn’t juding or condemning her. I wasn’t even trying to hurt her. I tried to let her see that we are indeed called to love the sinner and hate the sin. I think the approach of the other posters was better than Trishie’s because Flavius_Aetius had to know that it is okay for him to hate sin but not okay for him to hate the sinner. Please read our posts from the beginning, if you haven’t already.