Not everyone likes what they learned.
You do realize there’s more advanced stuff you could be reading?
Blaming catechetics is the easy answer. But the individual is the one that is mainly to blame. Remember, “mea culpa”.
Maybe you were well instructed. I have met very, very few peers of mine who had any decent instruction at all. Most did not learn a thing from their parents. Our CCD was terribly poor and barely covered the commandments, beatitudes, and other basic “list” type things, even in Confirmation class.Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Blaming catechetics is the easy answer. But the individual is the one that is mainly to blame. Remember, “mea culpa”.
When I fell away, I had been catechized by my parents, by my church and to some extent, even by my Christian teachers. Yet, I turned away because I didn’t like their answers. I imagine that is the case for most of the people who fall away.
Instruction and learning are two different things. Many of my fellow students in school turned out to be scientists, engineers and the like. I was taught the same thing they were taught. They learned it, but I didn’t.De_Maria:
Maybe you were well instructed. I have met very, very few peers of mine who had any decent instruction at all. Most did not learn a thing from their parents. Our CCD was terribly poor and barely covered the commandments, beatitudes, and other basic “list” type things, even in Confirmation class.Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Blaming catechetics is the easy answer. But the individual is the one that is mainly to blame. Remember, “mea culpa”.
When I fell away, I had been catechized by my parents, by my church and to some extent, even by my Christian teachers. Yet, I turned away because I didn’t like their answers. I imagine that is the case for most of the people who fall away.
In fact, it wasn’t until I joined Lifeteen that I heard about the Rosary, transubstantiation, adoration and the like. Nevermind doctrine issues.
De_Maria, with all due respect, many modern CCD’s have nothing to pay attention TO. I remember the books I used from 2nd grade to 12th grade in my CCD quite well. They looked like Highlights magazines and had about as much religious content as one. It was all about “being a good person” and other such nonsense. The younger grades were simply coloring pages of Bible stories. These weren’t high-quality materials.
Yes, I’ve heard similar stories. I knew a good bishop who once told us that he knew nothing of Catholic doctrine including the Eucharist and transubstantiation until he entered seminary! He said that what he learned in all his years of prior religious education was how to draw religious pictures and make banners.
Good grief. The banners. I LOVE crafts and creativity but we had to make 2 or 3 of them each year, every year. I have an avid dislike of all things banner now. The “new school year” banner and the “Christmas” banner and the inescapable " I love Jesus because banner" In which the girls would write puppies and the boys would write baseball and X-men.Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Yes, I’ve heard similar stories. I knew a good bishop who once told us that he knew nothing of Catholic doctrine including the Eucharist and transubstantiation until he entered seminary! He said that what he learned in all his years of prior religious education was how to draw religious pictures and make banners.
There was a real letdown in catechetics that came upon us almost overnight. In my own family, the older siblings learned the Baltimore catechism, then one year things changed and the younger siblings were taught virtually nothing solid about the Faith.
vz71, with all due respect, we’re talking about a problem here where people are never given the chance to learn about their faith because they are given materials so poor they could hardly be called Catholic. They fall more in line with modern magazines and publications that teach children good works and nice stories than any real catechetics.
I don’t recall anyone saying that about you, but I also don’t recall there being anything in Catholic soteriology that states that proper formation necessarily leads to faith. So it is possible for someone to reject perfectly sound teaching just as it is possible your personal experiences can be generalized (although that would require evidence).
Da_Marie continued to blame lack of paying attention after I clarified in my 2nd post. While it was not a direct accusation, it was clear that her feelings where that fault lay…if not for me for my compatriots.Xanthippe_Voorhees:
I don’t recall anyone saying that about you, but I also don’t recall there being anything in Catholic soteriology that states that proper formation necessarily leads to faith. So it is possible for someone to reject perfectly sound teaching just as it is possible your personal experiences can be generalized (although that would require evidence).
That is your own impression that is rooted in your intuiting someone’s intent. It’s not rooted in the objective.
… is most sensibly interpreted in light of …
Frankly, both of you are holding to positions that are rooted in generalizing your own experiences without conceding that BOTH of you have spotted problems that simultaneously exist.
Because it is allegedly a bestseller—however that is being gauged—the logical inference to be drawn is that the majority of parishes use this material? Not at all. It doesn’t even imply that a plurality of parishes use it. I believe you are an educator, and you should be more used to how evidence can prove one’s assertions than this comment of yours suggests.
Well, it’s like this. When I was in school, I didn’t like the curriculum. But I was interested in dogs. But, they didn’t teach us anything about dogs. Did that stop me from learning about dogs? No. You could find me every evening, in the library, devouring every book that had anything to do with dogs.
That’s the problem with Catholics today. They expect priests and nuns to spoon feed them doctrine. When catechism lessons are finished, they put the catechism books in a box and leave them alone! They think they can learn the Catholic Faith without making an effort to educate themselves! This is a disastrous mindset. The Second Vatican Council and the post-conciliar magisteriums - especially Pope St. John Paul II - tried very hard to eliminate this mindset. Pope John Paul II gave us the Catechism and several encyclicals. Mother Angelica founded EWTN. Karl Keating founded Catholic Answers. All of this was done under the influence of the Holy Spirit who wants every Catholic to learn their Faith and live their Faith. Laypeople have to realise that they don’t need to be spoon fed doctrine like a child! Holy Mother Church has given us the documents and materials needed to increase our knowledge. Teach yourself and don’t abandon your Glorious Faith.
I didn’t know what Transubstantiation meant. In fact, I knew next to nothing about Catholic doctrine when I made my First Holy Communion. I was completely uneducated about the Catholic Faith. I think the liberals in the Church deliberately deprived my generation of the Faith; they got rid of the Penny Catechism (Baltimore Catechism in the USA) and replaced it with nothing! They taught us Communion in the hand and no genuflection. They didn’t tell us what sin is and why we need Confession. All of this has to be deliberate negligence! The faith was not handed down. By the grace of God I discovered the Traditional Latin Mass and I greedily sought out the Faith. I had an insatiable appetite for the doctrine of the Faith, but the liberals starved me and my generation.