I need ADVICE! Badly!

[judynurse]

Sounds to me that he doesn’t “choke with stakes”, he’s just plain lazy! You do all the “men/husband” items for him, (earning wages, running his business as well as yours, taking care of vital things such as your son’s medication, etc…) Seems like the only things he likes to do are household things – like a wife! – he’ll give you a back rub (& expects a lot of praise and appreciation for this), he’ll do the laundry, fix the dinner, help your son with homework, in other words, he’s living like a wife, letting you be the head of household, and won’t even keep a budget (as many wives do!)

I think he doesn’t want to grow up & be a MAN! He wants to stay home, pretend he’s going to run a “real” business (as long as you do all the work & give him all the credit). I think you’ve got a real loser there, and don’t think he’s ever going to change, regardless of therapy or counseling. Get out, if he doesn’t want to move, tell him the lease is his, or include the lease costs in the Bankruptcy if you can’t avoid the Bankruptcy now. Don’t pay for his cell phone. If it’s in your name, cancel it. Change your cell phone number & give it only to the school, your boss and your son’s Doctor, and make sure they know NOT to give it to him! Then look for an apartment YOU can afford, change your son’s school, and tell him to go and grow up and talk to you again in a couple of years. Sounds like this was never a marriage, and you wanted to back out even before it started. Don’t continue this pattern, because it will get worse, not better, and it’s certainly a bad example of manhood and marriage for your son!

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah, sometimes therapists fail to recognize the reality of a situation. Seems like this one got conned by your husband and gave advice based on that. The good news is, you tried. The bad news is it cost you a lot more than it should.

If you’re going to stay in this marriage you’re going to have to accept that you cannot trust your husband to handle anything important like finances (including access to the bank account…start one in your name if you don’t already have one, put all the money there, instruct the bank NOT to allow him any information, and give him pocket money as needed and in amounts you are comfortable with) or business related things or even the paperwork at school. You’re going to have to resign yourself to living almost as if you were single. And that does include making decisions such as where to live.

If you want out, get a lawyer and move on.

I, personally, don’t see a person like your husband making any real and lasting changes. He’s already done counseling more than once, he’s made mistakes that cost you a lot of needed money as if it was no big deal, his behavior has damaged your business reputation (word of mouth and customer/client reviews are everything!) and he’s even endangered your son by failing to fill out a simple form, get it signed, and return it in a timely manner. If he was going to wake up he would have done it long before now.

My ex blamed me for everything for a time. Heck, maybe he still does He behaved badly because I didn’t love him enough, because I was a witch (only w a B in place of the W), I didn’t blah blah…I did blah blah. I started to wonder if maybe it was me. Then I couldn’t take it anymore, filed for divorce, and moved on with my life. We’ve been divorced for 11 years and separated nearly 14 years ago.

He’s still the exact same. He’s remarried, he and his new wife have 2 children under the age of 6, they all live with his parents, he hasn’t had a job in 5 years and the jobs he had before that didn’t last for more than 6 months at a stretch. He’s just turned 40 years old. Obviously, if it was truly me, he would have gotten his life straight. But he didn’t because the truth is that it really was him. He was/is just incapable of growing up and behaving as a husband and father should. He was/is just simply incapable of impulse control and of assuming responsibility.

Maybe he’s mentally ill, maybe he’s just an arse. Doesn’t matter. What matters is that I did the right thing in removing both myself and my kids from the situation. We’re physically, emotionally, and financially much better off.

I’m afraid I’d feel a need to get a lawyer whether I wanted out or not. There could get to be a point where she needs to get out for the welfare of herself or her son, and she needs to know how to proceed if that happens, particularly considering all the complicating issues in her situation. Even if she stays, she needs to protect her financial history, so it can heal, because he’s not the least bit careful with it. He gives her bad advice, and I’m not entirely convinced he doesn’t realize it–that is, that he is not being self-serving about it on purpose. His automatic behavior seems to be self-preserving, at any rate. If she just goes with the flow that he’s dictating or even if she tries to change course and doesn’t know where the rocks are, she could find herself in a world of hurt.

 

[MJJean]

I’m afraid I’d feel a need to get a lawyer whether I wanted out or not. There could get to be a point where she needs to get out for the welfare of herself or her son, and she needs to know how to proceed if that happens, particularly considering all the complicating issues in her situation. Even if she stays, she needs to protect her financial history, so it can heal, because he’s not the least bit careful with it. He gives her bad advice, and I’m not entirely convinced he doesn’t realize it–that is, that he is not being self-serving about it on purpose. His automatic behavior seems to be self-preserving, at any rate. If she just goes with the flow that he’s dictating or even if she tries to change course and doesn’t know where the rocks are, she could find herself in a world of hurt.

I absolutely agree.

I hesitated to mention it, but if we both saw it maybe we’re right. Yes, I do think he is telling our poor OP things that aren’t exactly true or accurate to prevent her from forcing changes that he simply doesn’t like. A good example would be the daycare issue. Daycare, especially for a school age child, isn’t that expensive and a 40k a year job will more than pay for it with enough left over to contribute to the household. I seriously doubt he investigated daycare costs because he doesn’t want to work! I wouldn’t believe a single thing the man said without researching it on my own. He seems to have a bucket of bullpoop to excuse away his irresponsibility. It’s never his fault, always someone else who made a mistake like with the bank wire.

Yes, OP, if you don’t want to divorce just yet at least talk to a good attorney so that you can get yourself in a position to divorce if you decide to do so later.

And, yes, please keep in mind that your husband is currently your sons role model. Do you really want him thinking that this is how a man behaves and how a marriage is supposed to be? I left when my oldest was 5 and my youngest was 1. I was shocked at how much of her fathers bad behavior and way of being was already manifesting by 5 and I was very worried for her future.

 

[EasterJoy]

I absolutely agree.

I hesitated to mention it, but if we both saw it maybe we’re right. Yes, I do think he is telling our poor OP things that aren’t exactly true or accurate to prevent her from forcing changes that he simply doesn’t like. A good example would be the daycare issue. Daycare, especially for a school age child, isn’t that expensive and a 40k a year job will more than pay for it with enough left over to contribute to the household. I seriously doubt he investigated daycare costs because he doesn’t want to work! I wouldn’t believe a single thing the man said without researching it on my own. He seems to have a bucket of bullpoop to excuse away his irresponsibility. It’s never his fault, always someone else who made a mistake like with the bank wire.

Yes, OP, if you don’t want to divorce just yet at least talk to a good attorney so that you can get yourself in a position to divorce if you decide to do so later.

And, yes, please keep in mind that your husband is currently your sons role model. Do you really want him thinking that this is how a man behaves and how a marriage is supposed to be? I left when my oldest was 5 and my youngest was 1. I was shocked at how much of her fathers bad behavior and way of being was already manifesting by 5 and I was very worried for her future.

Well, and the person who foolishly files for divorce in order to have the money (as if there were money to be had here) and the kids but no spouse to order them around is hardly unknown. Just because an action would be stupid and would harm everyone in the family including him doesn’t mean that her husband won’t try it, alas.

 

[MJJean]

Well, and the person who foolishly files for divorce in order to have the money (as if there were money to be had here) and the kids but no spouse to order them around is hardly unknown. Just because an action would be stupid and would harm everyone in the family including him doesn’t mean that her husband won’t try it, alas.

Also true. And very sad that some types of people are willing to bite off their own noses to spite their faces.

 

[EasterJoy]

Also true. And very sad that some types of people are willing to bite off their own noses to spite their faces.

They’re out there, though. If marital problems won’t bring that out of a person, probably nothing will.

 

[mega1]

I’m going to therapy (first session in new town) tomorrow. It will help. Here’s my issue. He’s being VERY nice to me. I KNOW I struggle when people get upset. While it is EASIER to push him out of my life…when he’s being cold/mean…I find it nearly IMPOSSIBLE for me to see myself separate from him …while he’s being sweet and kind.

So, it’s his birthday today. I bought him gifts and met them on my dinner break. HE was very kind…pleasant. He is become much more pleasant over the past 6 months or so. He seems happy.

I gently brought up the living situation (I found a house lease that’s about 1k cheaper down the road…although I didn’t tell him THAT). I just asked how much we were paying for lawn care. He said he agreed to pay 300.00 a month for lawn service. I said “wow”. He said …yeah, maybe I should buy a lawnmover…is that what you think? I nodded. He is testing me out…he knows I’m not the typical pushover he’s used to right now. I doubt he really will follow through with that…I think he’s quizzing me.

He spent the afternoon at the hobby store with our son…racing cars and said he had a great day. He mentioned that he believes he will have another freelance gig next month and AGAIN requested that I make cold calls for him…for local business. I said…I don’t think I can. I’m just so strapped for time, right now. He said he understood.

I told him I was going to start doing my own thing on the business and while I will have to pay some folks to help me (with the things he has failed on)…I see a possible income being generated very soon. He didn’t say much…

So, here’s where we stand. He wants to stay in our current house with the $$$ lease …until we run into a time period where he can’t contribute enough in income. That could be next month, he’s just not sure. He is coasting. But says we shouldn’t move until we absolutely HAVE to. “I” think saving 900.00 a month asap and moving now…is probably the best way to go…because even if he keeps making freelance money…that could go toward bills…not just food on the table. He doesn’t seem to care…about next month.

I have 2 choices. Move to the cheaper house on my own… and allow him to continue caring for our son full-time and get an apartment of his own…OR…stay put and see if we can keep afloat with his freelance.

I hate to say it…but keeping the peace seems so much easier to me. I hate controversy and anger…but I just don’t want to be in the same place 6 months down the road…

 

[Xantippe]

Like others, I hate to say it, but it almost sounds like your husband is purposely sabotaging you. I don’t know if it’s possible to live with somebody that you just don’t trust.

mega1 said: “I’m going to therapy (first session in new town) tomorrow.”

Great!

“I just asked how much we were paying for lawn care. He said he agreed to pay 300.00 a month for lawn service.”

1. Shouldn’t you have known how much you’re paying for lawn care?
2. That’s a lot of money for a renter to pay to maintain a lawn. It’s not your lawn–you shouldn’t be treating it like the greens at Augusta.
3. You are declaring bankruptcy, he hasn’t been working regularly, and you’ve been paying somebody else $300 a month for lawn care. Oh my goodness.

“He wants to stay in our current house with the $$$ lease …until we run into a time period where he can’t contribute enough in income. That could be next month, he’s just not sure. He is coasting. But says we shouldn’t move until we absolutely HAVE to.”

That’s not a terrible idea. (I might feel differently if I knew the dollar figures–your lease may be as ridiculous as your lawn care budget.)

“…because even if he keeps making freelance money…that could go toward bills…not just food on the table.”

When are you going to sit down with him and plan your spending for the next month? It sounds like you guys make A LOT of money–it’s just all getting flushed down the drain.

Can you see some sort of financial planner/advisor/counselor (not a glorified salesperson!). I think I’ve heard that St. Vincent de Paul does financial counseling, but you’ll be the richest broke people who’ve ever walked through their door.

“I have 2 choices. Move to the cheaper house on my own… and allow him to continue caring for our son full-time and get an apartment of his own…OR…stay put and see if we can keep afloat with his freelance.”

I don’t think those are your only two choices by any means.

When are you going to see that lawyer?

 

[mega1]

Yeah, I need to make an appointment with an attorney, as well.

The reason why I didn’t know the lawncare figure was because he interviewed lawn people and surprised me…telling me that he wanted to hire people. I suggested getting a lawnmower of craigslist… maybe he’ll listen now? Dunno.

What I would LIKE to do…is to try my hand at running my OWN consulting biz…all I need to do is get a little marketing and I could easily get an extra 5k a month…it would only take one corporate client. That way…I could stay in the house we are in…all on my own finances AND I could have the luxury of keeping our son in the same house (stable) and tell my husband to get his own apartment. THAT is what I’d like to be able to do… keep things stable, feel financially secure on MY OWN…and let my husband go do whatever he wants to do. If he gets freelance work, great…he can pay for his apartment.

But, I also know this won’t be easy for me. a full time job and a side business…actually might be FAR easier if I didn’t have to run interference for my husband…you know?

Yes, I need to call the attorney tomorrow. After therapy! At least I’m reaching out and getting help…

 

[judynurse]

I’m glad we’ve been of some help to you. At least you are getting some professional help, and looking into ways and means of making a living without depending on your husband who cannot be depended upon. Perhaps soon you can find someone to sub-lease your expensive place, and move to the house where you can save an additional $900 per month from your income.

Will continue to pray for you.

 

[MJJean]

He’s being VERY nice to me.

He knows this and that is why he is being sweet and kind. His Spidey senses were tingling, he knew you were about to toss him out on his rear or at least make him get a job and he manipulated you to keep everything the same.

He seems happy.

I bet he is! I’d be happy to if I could spend and spend, not have to work, not have to be a responsible grown up, keep my credit spotless while ruining my spouses credit, tarnish my spouses professional reputation, manipulate my spouse to get my way, and still sleep at night!

He said he agreed to pay 300.00 a month for lawn service.

Don’t “bring up” or ask him anything, Make a decision as the responsible adult, for the long term good of the family, and inform him that the decision has been made, if he doesn’t like it he can get a full time job, and let that be the end of it.

$300 a month for lawn care??? With a stay at home spouse, no less? Heck, yeah, he can buy a lawnmower off of Craigslist and do it himself! especially since you’re in freaking BANKRUPTCY for heaven’s sakes! This is the time to pinch pennies.

Again, take the money YOU earn and put it into an account in YOUR name. Then allow him a household budget and not a penny more. And that budget should be necessities and nothing more at least until he gets a full time job.

He spent the afternoon at the hobby store with our son…racing cars and said he had a great day. … I said…I don’t think I can. I’m just so strapped for time, right now.

sarcasm It’s great he had a wonderful day while you were working yourself to the bone. end sarcasm Why not just be honest and tell him that you aren’t going to put your neck and reputation on the line for him anymore and that he needs to be doing these things for himself or get a job, period?

But says we shouldn’t move until we absolutely HAVE to. “I” think saving 900.00 a month asap and moving now.
I disagree. Better to move and begin saving $$ now than to wait until you have to move due to not being able to pay the rent. Firstly, you don’t want to wait until you have to move because you’ll have to rush into a new lease and may end up paying too much and/or live in a place that you don’t really want. Plus, it will be less stressful for all of you to move at your own pace than have to rush.

Him not caring about the future isn’t a surprise. You’ll have to do that. And he’ll have to just go along with it because he isn’t taking responsibility for the future of his family.

Move to the cheaper house on my own…

I hate to say it…but keeping the peace seems so much easier to me. but I just don’t want to be in the same place 6 months down the road…
Move. Take him with you or not, but move to a place more affordable under any circumstances. You can’t count on his income, so make sure you can cover all the bills and groceries on your own, preferably with some money left over to pay off past debt and/or put into savings for emergencies.

And you are going to keep ending up in this same spot over and over and over unless you put a stop to it. I understand the path of least resistance is easy, but you have to think about your child’s security and future. That should trump “easy”.

The reason why I didn’t know the lawncare figure was because he interviewed lawn people and surprised me…

Again, he shouldn’t have access to money because he is not responsible with it. You should know the household expenditures down to the penny and be going over everything with a fine tooth comb to cut spending. There should be absolutely no surprises. Certainly no surprises to the tune of $300 a month for lawn care because he doesn’t feel like cutting the grass and picking up a weedwhacker.

I am starting to wonder if the bankruptcy isn’t going well for you because you actually do have the income to pay off the debt, but it’s all being flushed down the drain. And you are standing by allowing it to happen!

As far as the court is concerned, if you have the income to pay off past bills they will want you to cut expenses and do so. I watched my dad do the same thing. According to the court, he had the income to pay the debts. Which he did, but he was spending on luxuries that he thought were necessities. The judge was NOT amused.

My dad walked out of court with somewhat reduced debt that he had to pay off over time. Really, he ended up declaring bankruptcy for nothing.

If you want him to do the lawn, then tell him he is doing the lawn and you are NOT going to pay for or allow him to pay for outside lawn care. No if’s, no and’d, no but’s.

THAT is what I’d like to be able to do… keep things stable, feel financially secure on MY OWN…and let my husband go do whatever he wants to do. If he gets freelance work, great…he can pay for his apartment.

If that’s what you want, go for it! Make it happen! Honestly, since you won’t put your foot down and you allow him to manipulate you maybe the only realistic option is to at least legally separate. You can’t go on like this.

Yes, I need to call the attorney tomorrow. After therapy! At least I’m reaching out and getting help…

Maybe print out what you’ve told us here and show it to the therapist? And help isn’t much help unless you’re willing to take action.

 

[judynurse]

I agree that printing out all these posts – particularly your own - would be excellent for your therapist as a starting point, and would certainly give such a professional a real clue-in to the true situation: a manipulative husband with an enabling wife! Sorry, but that’s what it looks like to me from the posts. And, you need to find out from the Attorney about communal property laws in your new state. Can you have a separate bank account that your husband can’t touch under the state’s laws? Can a bankruptcy actually be only “yours” or does the state recognize the debts as “common property”, meaning HE is also going to have the bankruptcy on HIS record, preventing him from using credit cards or obtaining credit? I lived in a state in which my husband could obtain credit by himself, but I could only obtain credit with HIS signature! Be sure what your laws are where you live, and what your rights and obligations are! A legal separation would probably prevent him from using your income as a basis for credit for himself! That would at least protect you from his involving you in further debt!

By the way, are you attending Mass at all? If you didn’t like or connect with the priest you dealt with before, try another Parish, but don’t put your religion and faith on a “back burner” with all the other issues you are dealing with! Your son also needs the stability of his faith!

 

[Xantippe]

MJJean said:

“You should know the household expenditures down to the penny and be going over everything with a fine tooth comb to cut spending.”

Yes.

“I am starting to wonder if the bankruptcy isn’t going well for you because you actually do have the income to pay off the debt, but it’s all being flushed down the drain.”

Yes.

“As far as the court is concerned, if you have the income to pay off past bills they will want you to cut expenses and do so. I watched my dad do the same thing. According to the court, he had the income to pay the debts. Which he did, but he was spending on luxuries that he thought were necessities. The judge was NOT amused.”

Yes. When high earners like the OP go into bankruptcy, the court forces them into a financial strait jacket until the debts are paid off to the satisfaction of the court. It’s not some sort of happy fun thing where you escape your debts and are freeee!

Put this lease into the bankruptcy if you can and if there’s no stopping the bankruptcy.

“My dad walked out of court with somewhat reduced debt that he had to pay off over time. Really, he ended up declaring bankruptcy for nothing.”

I suspect that is exactly what is going to happen to the OP.

 

[mega1]

Thanks to ALL of you for your insight and support.

I went to the therapist…he was pretty good. Obviously, it takes some time to know for sure. I tried to telling him in a nutshell…what was going on. Not easy in a short time.

He was VERY cut to the chase. In the middle of all of my babbling, he stopped me and asked if I still want to be married? I answered…“I don’t know why I can’t seem to get the courage to leave and that’s what I want to work on.”

He was quick to say > Ok…I’ve established your husband is unreliable and not a proper “teammate”. I guess it doesn’t take much work to make that assessment.

He said it was his opinion that the marriage was dead and that I am getting too caught up with the emotional drama …instead of finding clarity in my end game.

He said …if I wanted to try to work on the marriage and make it better… and establish better boundaries…he would talk with me about that…but that he wasn’t hearing me fighting for the marriage. At the very least, I told stories of how I TRIED to stop enabling and delegating…and that my husband couldn’t handle it.

So…I’m going back Wednesday for another session. He said at the very minimum…he would say I need AT LEAST weekly therapy. He was shocked I Haven’t resorted to being a drunk or drugs.

So…that’s where I stand. Husband is being very nice today (again) and I got him another freelance job today …just a friend of a friend called me and I hooked him up.

 

[judynurse]

Sounds like you are ready to make progress with this therapist. However, I note you also found your husband ANOTHER job. Let him do his “cold calls” and get his own work! You are still in the habit of “helping” him i.e., enabling him to continue his current pattern. Mention this to the therapist at your next session. I suggest you still consult a good attorney regarding financial laws and the bankruptcy & lease.

Good luck. Still praying for you.

 

[Xantippe]

mega1 wrote:

“He was quick to say > Ok…I’ve established your husband is unreliable and not a proper “teammate”. I guess it doesn’t take much work to make that assessment.”

It took you a while, though.

I think you’ve got a good, insightful therapist who wants to make progress, rather than milking you for years. Very good.

“He said it was his opinion that the marriage was dead and that I am getting too caught up with the emotional drama …instead of finding clarity in my end game.”

I think your husband uses drama to distract you, and that you distract yourself with drama.

Fight for your marriage, be kind and clear with your husband, and don’t do things that you know are self-destructive. If he is willing to stay with you on terms of honesty and financial reality, let him stay.

It’s the beginning of the month. Have you done your budget with your husband? There’s no point in earning all this money if you have no idea where it is going.

 

[mega1]

Here’s the issue with fighting for the marriage…I have done this for years and years. I get him to get “on board” and I end up back in the same cycle. Yes, he conforms …kicking and screaming…and then we get to a point where we are “ok”…but it starts again…not long after.

I just don’t think it’s healthy for me to go through that yet again. It’s the definition of insanity…doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I think I need to fight for MYSELF and learn how to be stronger in my own skin…and allow myself to grow.

That’s easier said that done, though.

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s the issue with fighting for the marriage…I have done this for years and years. I get him to get “on board” and I end up back in the same cycle. Yes, he conforms …kicking and screaming…and then we get to a point where we are “ok”…but it starts again…not long after.

I just don’t think it’s healthy for me to go through that yet again. It’s the definition of insanity…doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I think I need to fight for MYSELF and learn how to be stronger in my own skin…and allow myself to grow.

That’s easier said that done, though.

You’re going in the right direction. A journey of a thousand miles always starts with that single step.

 

[Xantippe]

“I think I need to fight for MYSELF and learn how to be stronger in my own skin…and allow myself to grow.”

I think fighting for yourself and fighting for your marriage are the same thing right now. You need to live within your means, and your marriage needs the same thing. You need honesty and reality, and your marriage needs the same thing. It may turn out that you can’t save your marriage, but in the mean time, do what is right for your family and see if your husband sticks around.

 

[Xantippe]

I think it’s time to figure out what is happening to your money. Set aside some time to have a good look at your credit card statements and bank records. Are there any odd purchases? Any large cash withdrawals that you can’t account for? You make a lot of money–where is it going? It may just be just disorganization, or there may be some large, unauthorized drains on your finances that you are unaware of. Also, check your credit report for any unauthorized charge accounts.

I may be being unfair to your husband, but this is a possibility that has to be looked into.