I need advice to stop masturbating

[eamonnroma]

Here’s a new method to try.

Try to understand that the concept “masterbation is sin” is a huge pile of complete utter hogwash nonsense. Jesus never mentioned the subject once, it has nothing to do with Christianity. Nothing. At all.

The concept was invented by celibate male clerics whose minds became obsessed with sex due to their lack of such experience, a normal biological reaction. Imagine that someone convinced you that peeing was sin and so you never did that. How long would it be before you became obsessed about going to the bathroom?

I realize this method is probably not what you’re looking for, and that’s ok with me. It’s your life, and your body, and if you wish to torture yourself needlessly that’s up to you. Just know that such a decision, which you have every right to, has nothing to with Christianity, nothing to do with Jesus, nothing to do with love, nothing to do with God.

You are of course 100% correct. It is people who are obsessed with sex who made it sinful. I find it hard to believe that in 2017 people are still debating masturbation as being sinful. It is normal and natural, and and as long as people are not instilled with guilt, it is something that is of no consequence, and the individual will eventually grow out of. The more you worry about it, the more of a problem it becomes.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

You are of course 100% correct. It is people who are obsessed with sex who made it sinful. I find it hard to believe that in 2017 people are still debating masturbation as being sinful. It is normal and natural, and and as long as people are not instilled with guilt, it is something that is of no consequence, and the individual will eventually grow out of. The more you worry about it, the more of a problem it becomes.

Both of you are confusing sin with conventional morality.

You both could say there is nothing inherently wrong with not going to Mass on Sundays. Of course! Neither Presbyterians nor Baha’i’s got to Mass (ever).

Just as Jews are commanded not to eat pork, we are commanded to chastity. Being a Catholic is a calling and a responsibility before God. Do as you are told, follow God with the Church and be meek. We are called to Sainthood, not to conventionality.

 

[Ormond]

Just as Jews are commanded not to eat pork, we are commanded to chastity. Being a Catholic is a calling and a responsibility before God. Do as you are told, follow God with the Church and be meek. We are called to Sainthood, not to conventionality.

I have no problem with this if someone is referring to their own choices. It becomes a different matter when one starts selling one’s choices to others, while holding the threat of eternal damnation over their heads if they don’t agree.

Here’s an example. Imagine that my reading of the Bible led me to conclude that scratching one’s butt was a mortal sin punishable by hell. Imagine that my interpretation was based on a handful of somewhat vague verses which are interpreted different ways by different people, with no way to settle it conclusively.

Imagine that some impressionable young people read my posts and became persuaded that scratching one’s butt was a serious sin. Imagine millions of them. Imagine them going through their entire lives racked with guilt and existential fear every time they couldn’t resist the urge to scratch, a very normal biological function. Guilt and fear for millions for a lifetime, all for nothing. And I’m the one who started it.

Power comes with responsibility, and starting a chain reaction like this without clear decisive confirmation of the justness of the cause is not responsible, or saintly.

**I don’t object to what you do or conclude for yourself. **

I object to you playing high stakes poker with other people’s lives, especially young people, based only on scant vague highly contested evidence to support your conclusion. Seriously, it smells far too much like the Taliban for me to sit silently by. You are literally saying, agree with me, or die (ie. go to hell).

You believe in meekness? Ok, so be meek yourself. Stop trying to speak for God, the exact opposite of meekness.

No, I’m not meek, nor do I claim to be. If you want to play the judge and condemn game, I have Catholic DNA too, and will beat you at it. If you want to play the phony saint game, I can play that too, and um, do all the time. The sword of judgment cuts in all directions my friend, and once we start swinging it there’s no telling whose head might fall. This conversation will not be about you judging others from a safe distance on your saintly throne. I can sling the hell fire damnation too.

 

[Estevao]

Ormond, did OP ask for some internet atheist apologist’s opinion on why masturbation is awesome and why anybody who disagrees is literally worse than Hitler?

No?

Then stop posting off topic nonsense. Those are the rules of this forum. If you don’t want to follow them then you can go back to reddit. I have reported you.

 

[Estevao]

You are of course 100% correct. It is people who are obsessed with sex who made it sinful. I find it hard to believe that in 2017 people are still debating masturbation as being sinful. It is normal and natural, and and as long as people are not instilled with guilt, it is something that is of no consequence, and the individual will eventually grow out of. The more you worry about it, the more of a problem it becomes.

Did it ever occur to you that it’s the current year is a pretty lame ethical argument?

“Hey Hitler, why are you exterminating the Jews?”

“Vat, you don’t want to exterminate die Juden? I cannot belief dat in 1942 zere are people who zink like diz.”

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

I have no problem with this if someone is referring to their own choices. It becomes a different matter when one starts selling one’s choices to others, while holding the threat of eternal damnation over their heads if they don’t agree.

Here’s an example. Imagine that my reading of the Bible led me to conclude that scratching one’s butt was a mortal sin punishable by hell. Imagine that my interpretation was based on a handful of somewhat vague verses which are interpreted different ways by different people, with no way to settle it conclusively.

Imagine that some impressionable young people read my posts and became persuaded that scratching one’s butt was a serious sin. Imagine millions of them. Imagine them going through their entire lives racked with guilt and existential fear every time they couldn’t resist the urge to scratch, a very normal biological function. Guilt and fear for millions for a lifetime, all for nothing. And I’m the one who started it.

Power comes with responsibility, and starting a chain reaction like this without clear decisive confirmation of the justness of the cause is not responsible, or saintly.

**I don’t object to what you do or conclude for yourself. **

I object to you playing high stakes poker with other people’s lives, especially young people, based only on scant vague highly contested evidence to support your conclusion. Seriously, it smells far too much like the Taliban for me to sit silently by. You are literally saying, agree with me, or die (ie. go to hell).

You believe in meekness? Ok, so be meek yourself. Stop trying to speak for God, the exact opposite of meekness.

No, I’m not meek, nor do I claim to be. If you want to play the judge and condemn game, I have Catholic DNA too, and will beat you at it. If you want to play the phony saint game, I can play that too, and um, do all the time. The sword of judgment cuts in all directions my friend, and once we start swinging it there’s no telling whose head might fall. This conversation will not be about you judging others from a safe distance on your saintly throne. I can sling the hell fire damnation too.

1. It is not a choice, it’s a commandment. Read again. You may choose to respond to God’s call or you may not, but you are suggesting it’s something human, or worse even, my invention.
2. I am not threatening eternal damnation of they/you do not agree. Please, stop being mendacious. This is your second time.
3. “You believe in meekness?”. I gather you are not Christian and do not believe in the virtues put forth by the message of salvation charged to Christ’s ekklesia.

I thought you understood plain English, when the subject of the thread is masturbation+sin. The word is sin. I suggest you look the meaning up. We’re not talking about conventional morality but of God’s commands.

“I can sling the hell fire damnation too”.
You not only see others as sending fire and brimstone where these were never mentioned, but you fittingly send it to others, as a reflection of that mindset. Apparently the subject of sin draws your animosity very intensely.

 

[Ormond]

1. It is not a choice, it’s a commandment.

It’s a choice of whether to follow that commandment, and whether to sell it to others.

Read again. You may choose to respond to God’s call or you may not, but you are suggesting it’s something human, or worse even, my invention.

I’m suggesting you believe the commandment has a source higher than human, but that’s just your own belief, not an established fact. You are entitled to your belief, and when you try to sell it, you will be challenged.

1. I am not threatening eternal damnation of they/you do not agree. Please, stop being mendacious. This is your second time.

By selling the doctrine, you are indeed threatening eternal damnation, just as the doctrine does. That said, I do agree of course that you did not create the doctrine yourself. But you are selling it, so I will counter sell.

1. “You believe in meekness?”. I gather you are not Christian and do not believe in the virtues put forth by the message of salvation charged to Christ’s ekklesia.

I gather you are not a Christian if you are willing to subject innocent people to pointless suffering for no good provable reason. I am offering mercy and comfort to those suffering from pointless shame, guilt and fear, and you are offering them eternal damnation. You can call that Christianity if you wish, but I do not.

I thought you understood plain English, when the subject of the thread is masturbation+sin. The word is sin. I suggest you look the meaning up. We’re not talking about conventional morality but of God’s commands.

You are defining sin in the way you prefer, I am doing the same. You are CHOOSING a different interpretation of Christianity than I am, as is your right.

Apparently the subject of sin draws your animosity very intensely.

Yes, your sin of inflicting pointless suffering upon the innocent obviously does draw my animosity intensely, that is now an established fact. You want to swing the sword of holy judgment, and I do too, we are Catholic DNA brothers, locked in the embrace of combat.

The point of my animosity is to demonstrate to you that you do not sit on a high holy throne from which you can judge others from a safe distance, which seems to be a common perspective among the Catholic Taliban. If you are going to judge and threaten damnation, I am too. I will join you in the world you have created. And I predict I’m better at swinging the sword than you are. We shall see.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

THIS stuff on the topic is interesting:

“Does the Catholic teaching on masturbation say we should repress our sexuality?”

There’s a difference between repression and self-control.

Repression means to “stuff” those feelings down when they arise, denying them and wishing they weren’t there.

Repression doesn’t work. Many people try this route and fail.

Self-control is different. You don’t deny the reality of your sexual drive, but seek to control it according to your will. That’s called being free! If you’re a slave to your urges (sexual or otherwise), you’re not free.
“For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another.” (Gal 5:13)

The key to this is to redeem our sexuality, not to repress it. Christopher West makes this point about the Catholic teaching on masturbation in Good News About Sex and Marriage:

When sexual feelings, desires, and temptations present themselves, as they inevitably do, instead of trying to ignore them or “stuff” them by pushing them down and under, we need to bring them up and out. Not up and out in the sense of indulging them, but up and out and into the hands of Christ our Redeemer. You might simply say a prayer such as this: _Lord Jesus, I give you my sexual desires. Please undo in me what sin has done so that I might know freedom in this area and experience sexual desire as you intend. Amen._ The more we invite Christ into our passions and desires and allow him to purify them, the more we find we’re able to exercise proper control of them. And we begin more and more to experience our sexuality, not as the desire for selfish gratification but as the desire to give ourselves away in imitation of Christ. This is what redemption is all about. (_Good News About Sex and Marriage_, p.81)

The Catholic teaching on masturbation reminds us that we need to redeem our self-centered, disordered desires.

It’s a matter of bringing our disorders to Christ, naming them for what they are, and letting Christ heal us. We experience that healing as the gradual increase of self-control.

It is possible.

You’re worth far too much to live according to a lie about yourself. For your freedom was bought at a great price: the price of the blood of Christ.

So go on: Let yourself be redeemed. Live in the “glorious freedom of the children of God” (Rom 8:21).

Alleluia!

Catholic Teaching on Masturbation: Straight Answers

So…
Just don’t do it. It’s not impossible.
As I said before, when I used to do it, it was like less than 5 min in a 24 hour day, which means less than 0.4% of the day. What do you do the rest of my time? Anything else. So I showed myself I could refrain from doing it 99.6% of the day. Also, I thought it would be unbearable. But then again, I really have a burning love for God (that makes it easier) and I really wanted to participate in the sacraments again, which I hadn’t done for years do to my addiction. Not that I was overcome with guilt (I wasn’t, because I also became irreligious), but when I wanted to come back to God’s family, I wanted the full deal.

For me, masturbation was a form of entertainment. I just entertain myself differently. When temptation comes I just keep myself entertained doing otherwise and avoid being alone (just like with other addictions, like a recovering alcoholic who stays always away from the bottle).

I tried masturbating less (many times!) but that didn’t work. I guess part of the problem with that was the lingering, almost faint, sense of guilt I denied to myself having. Perhaps also I’m the kind of guy who needs to cut a habit out completely in order to succeed at all.

As I said before, I have had no success in cutting nailbiting (no it’s not related to sex drive, I bite my nails chaste just as much as I did when in a lifestyle indulging in sex). With masturbation it’s easier, as I have to take my **** out of my pants, and with my nails they’re literally on the tip of my fingers and there are ten of them!

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

The point of my animosity is to demonstrate to you that you do not sit on a high holy throne from which you can judge others

The subject is masturbation as sin, man! What else did you want me to talk about?

Or is that your fallback position when having no more argument?

…] the Catholic Taliban …]

Now you’re just insulting me and my Church. Get out of here.

 

[Ormond]

As I said before, when I used to do it, it was like less than 5 min in a 24 hour day, which means less than 0.4% of the day.

Ah, this is why you stopped masterbating. You never knew how to enjoy it in the first place, so there wasn’t that much to give up. Seriously dude, 5 minutes? If you should get back in to it, take a class or something.

But then again, I really have a burning love for God…

The God who created your body, your sex organs, and your desires. You aren’t really arguing with me, but with Him, rejecting the gift he gave you in an ungrateful manner.

That said, we reach a point of big agreement if our desires lead us to hurt other people. If that were the conversation, I would be happy to join you in judging and condemning, then I become the Taliban, for real. No kidding, don’t ask me what I’d do with the child raping priests, or any other rapists, too scary a story to tell. Makes the Old Testament look like a picnic.

Not that I was overcome with guilt (I wasn’t, because I also became irreligious), but when I wanted to come back to God’s family, I wanted the full deal.

The Catholic Church is not God’s family. That’s humanity. By labeling the Catholic Church as God’s family you are working to divide the family. So much for family values I guess.

I tried masturbating less (many times!) but that didn’t work.

Ha, ha, try turning 65, that works pretty well, and it’s free!

I guess part of the problem with that was the lingering, almost faint, sense of guilt I denied to myself having. Perhaps also I’m the kind of guy who needs to cut a habit out completely in order to succeed at all.

Ok, your choice for you, no complaints, and wishing you luck with your own goals for yourself.

As I said before, I have had no success in cutting nailbiting (no it’s not related to sex drive, I bite my nails chaste just as much as I did when in a lifestyle indulging in sex). With masturbation it’s easier, as I have to take my **** out of my pants, and with my nails they’re literally on the tip of my fingers and there are ten of them!

Hmm, if you’re going to unleash the humor weapon, I may have to call for reinforcements.

 

[Ormond]

The subject is masturbation as sin, man! What else did you want me to talk about?

The subject has become whether masterbation is sin. You can deny that and run and hide if you wish, or you can step up and meet the challenge.

Or is that your fallback position when having no more argument?

I have argument out the wazoo, waiting for you to catch up.

Now you’re just insulting me and my Church. Get out of here.

1. The Taliban operates by saying, “Obey us, or we’ll kill you.”
2. On this particular issue the Church says, “Obey us on this, or you’ll spend an ETERNITY in hell”.
3. The Taliban are thus shown to be kinder, as they threaten only one death, not an eternity of deaths.

There’s a logical rational reasoned argument. Man up and meet it, or run and hide, your call.

 

[JRS_88]

The subject has become whether masterbation is sin. You can deny that and run and hide if you wish, or you can step up and meet the challenge.

Uh, is there any possible way that you could correctly spell “Masturbation” ?

 

[adamhovey1988]

Every once in a while I read something on CAF that is so absurd I have to go back two or three times just to make sure I read it correctly. If there was an award for Nutty Post of the Day, Todd would be the clear winner.

Excuse me, but was that called for? Someone has a serious problem, and someone offered advice. You’ve not got to agree with the advice, but that was really rude.

 

[adamhovey1988]

You are of course 100% correct. It is people who are obsessed with sex who made it sinful. I find it hard to believe that in 2017 people are still debating masturbation as being sinful. It is normal and natural, and and as long as people are not instilled with guilt, it is something that is of no consequence, and the individual will eventually grow out of. The more you worry about it, the more of a problem it becomes.

How exactly is manual stimulation of your sexual organs natural?

 

[adamhovey1988]

Could a mod check on this? I am seeing a lot of trolling. Someone came here to ask for help, the person clearly believes this is a sin, and here we have people telling him it’s “natural”. I’m sorry, this is CATHOLIC ANSWERS FORUMS, please, remember, this is someone who has come here to ask about the CATHOLIC view of it. And how to stop from a CATHOLIC standpoint.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Could a mod check on this? I am seeing a lot of trolling. Someone came here to ask for help, the person clearly believes this is a sin, and here we have people telling him it’s “natural”. I’m sorry, this is CATHOLIC ANSWERS FORUMS, please, remember, this is someone who has come here to ask about the CATHOLIC view of it. And how to stop from a CATHOLIC standpoint.

I agree. Just click the red exclamation point above the post and report it. Then they can handle it. You can also pm the mod.
As an aside I don’t know if it’s the divide in our church, the divide in our country or what, but the mods must be struggling lately. I hope CAF can up its game!
Things have been crazy here lately.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

The subject has become whether masterbation is sin. You can deny that and run and hide if you wish, or you can step up and meet the challenge.

I have argument out the wazoo, waiting for you to catch up.

1. The Taliban operates by saying, “Obey us, or we’ll kill you.”
2. On this particular issue the Church says, “Obey us on this, or you’ll spend an ETERNITY in hell”.
3. The Taliban are thus shown to be kinder, as they threaten only one death, not an eternity of deaths.

There’s a logical rational reasoned argument. Man up and meet it, or run and hide, your call.

What challenge?
All I am saying is that masturbation is a teaching according to the teaching of the Church.
Do you dispute this?

I am not running and hiding. You are all jacked up with strawmen in your head. Saying I threaten you with hellfire and calling my Chuch the taliban, which is uncalled for. An “eternity of deaths”? Are you just copy/pasting, or the adrenaline from your addiction to fighting just hasn’t been filtered fast enough from your bloodstream? Perhaps in your furor you just don’t know who said what to you and you see whoever is now in front of you as some sort of fire-and-brimstone spewing monster? Perhaps in your crusade of insults you have become what you accuse others of being.

Just cool off. This could be a civil exchange. Or maybe I’m expecting too much? I am not your enemy. I am just a random person. Are you this way in your offline life or you just become man on fire when protected by the anonymity of the web?

 

[goout]

Uh, is there any possible way that you could correctly spell “Masturbation” ?

Yea. That should be a minimum requirement for a person obsessed with the sinfullness of it.

 

[Estevao]

[T]
he real evil of masturbation would be that it takes an appetite which, in lawful use, leads the individual out of himself to complete (and correct) his own personality in that of another… and turns it back: sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides. And this harem, once admitted, works against his ever getting out and really uniting with a real woman. For the harem is always accessible, always subservient, calls for no sacrifices or adjustments, and can be endowed with erotic and psychological attractions which no real woman can rival. Among those shadowy brides he is always adored, always the perfect lover: no demand is made on his unselfishness, no mortification ever imposed on his vanity.

Read more at:

edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2017/02/mired-in-roiling-tar-pits-of-lust.html

 

[Ormond]

All I am saying is that masturbation is a teaching according to the teaching of the Church. Do you dispute this?

No dispute, agreed that the masturbation doctrine you are expressing is a teaching of the Church. Perhaps to you, that makes it automatically correct. Obviously, to me it does not. Thus, we are having a debate on the topic.

Perhaps in your crusade of insults you have become what you accuse others of being.

I am mirroring the doctrine of the Church on this particular issue back to you. The Church judges, condemns and threatens innocent people, on this particular issue. So I am following the example of the Church by judging, condemning and threatening an innocent person too, you.

I am being rude and unfair, that’s true, but that is necessary to accurately mirror a rude doctrine that is threatening innocent people who have harmed no one with eternal damnation, a form of unfairness rudeness which exceeds mine by a wide margin.

I do apologize for directing my fire at you personally, because obviously you are not the source of this problem, and truly I have no beef with you personally, other than that you are attempting to sell the rude doctrine here in this thread.

I understand that you wish to keep the conversation dignified and professional. That is, you are trying to create a safe place for you to sell the doctrine. But the innocent I am speaking on behalf of are not offered a safe place, they are offered fear, guilt, worry, eternal damnation, self hatred. So by being rude I am denying you and The Church the safe space you deny the innocent, I am inviting you to experience the world this doctrine is creating.

Just cool off. This could be a civil exchange.

It can’t be a civil exchange so long as we are threatening entirely innocent people who have harmed no one, many of them young, with eternal damnation. That is NOT a civil doctrine. The Church started the unnecessary rudeness on this subject, and I am just following their lead, learning from their example. I am attempting to make the world this doctrine creates real to you by stripping away the abstract phony baloney theological intellectualizations which are being used to hide it’s cruelty.

How does it feel for you, a decent innocent person who is harming no one, to be judged, condemned, and threatened? Is this really an experience you wish to share with others? Is it really a Christian experience?

There is another angle to pursue, which probably deserves it’s own thread. Who is “The Church”? I propose “The Church” is the entire global community of Catholics. I propose the clergy are a very small collection of serious and influential Catholics within the larger whole of “The Church”. The clergy are human beings, men, just like you and me. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, sometimes they are wise, sometimes they are foolish. It’s from this perspective that I offer my challenge, just as you reasonably challenge me in return.

Example, when high ranking clergy tried to sweep child rape under the rug, did you not challenge that, at least in your private mind? If yes, then there is no real difference between us. Like me, you pick and choose what to support and what to resist. We differ only on the details.

This is my cooled off post. If you wish to continue threatening innocent young people who are harming no with eternal damnation, then I will follow you there and join in the world such a doctrine creates.