I need historical evidence

[utunumsint]

Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.

I think someone else suggested it, but I’ll second the suggestion. Lee Strobel’s The Case for Christ is a good book that deals with a wide range of historical arguments against the existence of CHrist, and also provides some interesting arguments for the divinity of Christ. I believe there is a sequel to Lee’s book called The Case for Christ reviseted or something like that.

I like Lee’s books because they are fun and easy to read. He approaches the topic as an investigative reporter, so you feel less like you are being lectured, and more like youa re reading a Sherlock Holms detective story.

God bless,
Ut

 

[utunumsint]

Corroborating writings.

Critics claim there are no ancient writings about Jesus outside the New Testament. This is another ridiculous claim. Writings confirming His birth, ministry, death and resurrection include Flavius Josephus (A.D.93), the Babylonian Talmud (A.D.70-200), Pliny the Younger’s letter to the Emperor Trajan (approx. A.D.100), the Annals of Tacitus (A.D.115-117), Mara Bar Sarapion (sometime after A.D.73), and Suetonius’ Life of Claudius and Life of Nero (A.D.120)

Not to mention early christian writings:

Didache (70 AD)
Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians (70 to 90 AD)
Letters of Saint Ignatius (110 AD)
And also, the New Testament provides an abundance of historical evidence.

etc…

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Not to mention early christian writings:

Didache (70 AD)
Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians (70 to 90 AD)
Letters of Saint Ignatius (110 AD)
And also, the New Testament provides an abundance of historical evidence.

etc…

I wanted to keep away from suggesting people read Christian books/literature in support of a case for Christ, possibly they may suppose they show bias:shrug:

 

[steve_b]

Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”.

Atheists typically don’t accept the scriptures as “historical” references, therefore they usually dismiss them. Josephus was a 1st century historian. NOT a Christian. His complete works are here. ccel.org/j/josephus/works/JOSEPHUS.HTM

You’ll note reading Josephus, there were many other men called Jesus. So Josephus was very specific when referring to Jesus “the Christ”…

Josephus Re: Jesus Christ, as it is verbatim in the Antiquities, B. XVIII. ch. 3. sect. 3,

: Bk XVIII, ch 3, sect 3 (footnotes are operational)

1. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Another quote from Josephus regarding James, the “brother” of Jesus.

: Bk XX, Ch 9, sect 1

… Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: …

These quotes actually validate scripture being historical also.
tr:

Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin.

Atheists typically won’t be impressed with the shroud.
tr:

We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.

I hope this helps

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

This is a LONG pamphlet–more like a small book, but it is well worth the time and effort
churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/authors-gospels-1.htm

Within the text, there is a reference to St. Justin Martyr’s apologetics letter to the Emperor (Antonitus Pius?), which would have occured in the mid 2nd century. Justin matter of factly refers the Emperor to look in his own Imperial archives for Joseph, Mary, and Jesus being listed in the Augustine Imperial Census (the one refered to in Luke’s Gospel, the same one skeptics try to dismiss) AND to the Pontius Pilate’s report to Emperor Tiberius regarding the trial of Jesus.

Under historical standards, this would normally be considered VERY GOOD “secondary evidence”–not as good as “primary evidence” of events or persons, but a person near to the events refering to a primary evidence. Consider Justin Martyr was a Roman lawyer, writing what is essentially a legal brief to the Emperor. Under such a context, if St. Justin Martyr had been telling the Emperor to look up non-existent records, he would have been in writing perjuring himself to the Emperor–a capital crime in addition to making Christian claims look ridiculous.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

trmyjs

be grateful to the one who questions (Hebrews 13:2)
In our otherwise dark period, you have been invited to Catholic apologetics. Somewhat like the early Christians, you are called to struggle in the face of persecution to establish Christ in a pagan world.

When Joseph was seeking to leave Our Lady privately, Our Lady said not one word, she let an angel do the talking. Pray, meditate, act. God be with your spirit.

Through it all you may be led deeper into the Faith, more knowledgeable than some; and, who knows? Be led to Religious Life?

Above all Deo Gratius!

 

[nordskoven]

First and foremost, demand a standard of proof. What will and will not count towards making the case for the historic Jesus. Then ask what will be the response if you meet this standard of proof–will the person convert? If not, why bother?

More than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell has proof of Christ’s existence from several perspectives. John Ankerberg did a show with a judge to show Christ met a legal standard of proof as regards witnesses giving testimony. So get a standard of proof. We have Matthew fragments from directly after Christ’s death. What standard of proof is demanded; and what will be done if it is met? Personally I think the Shroud of Turin example was stellar. The identity as Christ isn’t Church teaching but it will help from a secular standpoint, eh? Hehe!

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

It’s not your job to convince anyone that Jesus is God. That’s the Father’s job. Our part is to share the simple message of the Gospel (Matt. 16:17)

 

[Big_Dummy]

Turn it around and ask him to explain the existence of the church today.