I need historical evidence

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Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
 
Well I don’t have a lot to offer, but there is a volume that contains 4 accounts by 4 different people about Jesus. This same volume contains letters written by still other people about him.
We call this volume “the Bible”.

Of course he won’t accept this but really how much “historical evidence” do we have for any number of ancient personalities? A few words? Maybe a statue? Maybe a single account by a single author?

Why are we to assume that these are any more or less reliable than the authors of the NT accounts that not only speak of Jesus but places Him in a particular time in history. Note that in the Gospels care is take to tell us who was Kind of Judea when jesus was born, and that It was during teh time of Pontius Pilot that He was crucified…

Peace
James
 
I’m by far not an expert on this, but the first thing I thought of was Josephus. He was a Jewish historian who was a contemporary of Jesus. I’m not in a good spot to provide links right now so you’ll have to look him up. Do you research though, because one of his writings is believed to have been changed by early Christians.

But the fact of the matter is that to deny that Jesus ever existed (not His Diety, but the fact He existed in the first place) is complete ignorance. If this comes up with your friend again ask him to prove why Jesus has never, ever existed. The burden of proof should be on your friend, not you.

Also, ask him: if Jesus had not even existed, how did Christianty start?
And: if Jesus never, ever existed, why did the Apostles give their lives for Him? If your friend denies the fact that Peter, Paul, and others were executed (and tries to say “The NT can’t be trusted…” or “They didn’t exist either”) then end the conversation. The ignorance at that point would be ridiculous 😛
 
First of all, atheists spend an inordinate amount of time arguing about something they think doesn’t exist, while, in fact, if it really didn’t exist, they wouldn’t bother with the argument in the first place. In their heart of hearts, I think many are secretly afraid that there is a God, that the Catholic Church is right, and thus they would have to assume responsibility for their own moral behavior. It’s very convenient not to have to answer to anybody, especially God.
That said, just off the top of my head, there are the prophecies of the Old Testament, all of the New Testament and Acts of the Apostles which cite hundreds of eye-witnesses, among them the Jews, who are still outraged after 2000 years at being blamed for the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. They forget that they said, “His blood be upon us and upon our children!” There are the records of the martyrdom of millions of Christians worldwide, who certainly haven’t given their lives for a fantasy. They died for Jesus, who has a Mother (Mary), and she had a husband (Joseph). Then there are the recorded miracles and apparitions which have occurred during the past twenty centuries. The documentation is there. The burden of proof is on your friend since he has thrown down the gauntlet. Tell him to start digging.
 
Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
Check out this site. There’re plenty of others:
westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm
 
my MA is in history, and the New Testament meets the requirements as a primary source for 1st century history, no, it is not stand-alone evidence, any more than any other primary source material, but there is actually more corroboration for it than many non-Christian contemporary historical sources, including say, the activities of Julius Caesar. If the bible is going to be discussed solely as history it should be evaluated on those criteria. If literature, the same. The person of faith does not require historical, scientific or literary evidence as the discussion has then moved to another plane.
 
I’ve been reading The Case for Christ lately and it addresses lots of different objections including the idea that there’s insufficient historical evidence of Jesus… defintely worth a read.
 
Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
The veracity of the Shroud of Turin is in some dispute so really doesn’t have any value as proof of Jesus’ existance. As puzzleannie said, the gospels themselves are historically accurate and shouldn’t be disregarded simply because they’re part of the Bible. I recently heard this lecture by Dr. William Lane Craig where he talks about the historicity of Jesus. In it he uses the books written by Luke (Luke’s gospel and Acts) as examples to illustrate how much historical detail is included in the Bible. You might find it interesting.
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Josephus writes of a Jewish sect led by James the Just, whom he calls the brother of Jesus. Josephus’ history includes sections on John the Baptist, the High Priest Annas, Pontius Pilate, and Jesus called the Messiah.
3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.[20]
In the Mystery of God, there is also great evidence available in almost complete absence of it.

Atheists are very prideful, blind and deaf when it comes to using Sacred Scripture as evidence. Don’t be encouraged that your friend will see The Light through extra-biblical sources either.

The Apostles didn’t need physical evidence of Jesus, they knew him. The disciples to the Apostles didn’t need physical evidence of Jesus, they knew the Apostles. The Early Church didn’t need physical evidence of Jesus, they knew the disciples.

On and on.

Eventually, once the generations are far enough removed, Christians are asked to respond through faith.

As Jesus said and is recorded in John, Chapter 20:
Then He said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see My hands, and bring your hand and put it into My side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe.”
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen Me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”
All that being said, paganism was rampent in the Middle East. God the Father continually had to reinstruct, reinstruct, reinstruct the Isrealites and the Jews concerning their connections to paganism (Greek and Roman gods and goddesses, amoung many others).

So, if Christians need to find proof of Jesus, Mary and Joseph then we can look for ancient evidence where Christianity overtook pagan worship. Sacred Scripture helps to p(name removed by moderator)oint the areas of evangelization. I’ll use Ephesus and Rome as examples.

St. John is thought to have taken the Blessed Virgin Mother Mary to Ephesus with him. St. Paul travels through Ephesus and one of his Letters addresses them specifically.

privatephesustours.com/christanity_in_ephesus.htm

sacred-destinations.com/turkey/ephesus-history.htm

The martyrdom of the Early Catholic Church in Rome centered both on pagan and Jewish converts to Christianity.
**
This is the prison diary of a young woman martyered in Carthage in 202 or 203 CE. The beginning and ending are related by an editor/narrator; the central text contains the words of Perpetua herself. Read more about the story of Perpetua from our interviews with New Testament scholars.**
A number of young catechumens were arrested, Revocatus and his fellow slave Felicitas, Saturninus and Secundulus, and with them Vibia Perpetua, a newly married woman of good family and upbringing.
Her mother and father were still alive and one of her two brothers was a catechumen like herself. She was about twenty-two years old and had an infant son at the breast. (Now from this point on the entire account of her ordeal is her own, according to her own ideas and in the way that she herself wrote it down.)
While we were still under arrest (she said) my father out of love for me was trying to persuade me and shake my resolution. ‘Father,’ said I, ‘do you see this vase here, for example, or waterpot or whatever?’
P.S. The Catholic Church today, continues to receive in catechumens, at the Easter Vigil Mass, after nine months of preparation through the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA).
 
Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
The Bible is a collection of books written over the course of thousands of years, compiled exactly because they documented mans relationship with G-d. The entire NT is collection of documents about Christ. The claim that They are not well documented is obviously false. Often people who make these statements are unaware of what that the Bible is the historical documentation of the Judeo/Christian tradition.
 
:DI remember reading somewhere that their is as much evidence for Jesus as there is for the guy that was roman emperor at the time. I can’t remember the link 😃
 
arguing that the apostles, in their NT writings, do not provide proof of the existence of Jesus makes as much sense as saying John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, in writing about the man they knew, George Washington, did not provide proof of his existence.

What we know about Washington is the sum total of what remains of his own recorded words, and the record of his works left by contemporaries.

You never met my parents, who are dead now. If I related stories about them, would you come back and tell me “prove they lived.”
 
Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
First, ask them for their historical evidence that God does not exist. The burden is upon them.
 
Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
You should not put forward the Shroud as an argument for anything. The Church has not declared it to be authentic and nor has any testing proved it is authentic.

The New Testament is documented evidence of Jesus.
 
thistle, upon further research I realized this :/. I’ve got a lot to learn…
 
Today at school my atheist friend made the comment “there’s no historical evidence of Jesus, Mary, or Joseph”. Obviously, I disagreed and gave him a quick summary on the Shroud of Turin. We didn’t discuss this too much since the subject changed. However, I feel that this will eventually come up again and I need to know what to say. Any examples of historical evidence for Jesus, Mary, or Joseph would be greatly appreciated. Tips on how to handle this type of thing would also be helpful.
There’s a very similar sort of conversation happening in the non-Catholic sub-forum, except there, it’s a Catholic who doesn’t believe there’s any evidence of Jesus having blood relatives besides Mary. Look at how Catholics are behaving in that conversation and you might get an idea of what’s going through your friend’s mind. As an atheist, he’s not able to be comfortable with admitting that theistic beliefs are plausible; as Catholics, your “forum brethren” aren’t going to be comfortable with admitting what certain things might indicate about Jesus’ brethren.

If you notice anything that breaks through with any sort of effectiveness on the aforementioned thread, maybe you can use the same sort of tactic in your conversation at school.

There’s the thread if you want a look. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=558028
 
There’s a very similar sort of conversation happening in the non-Catholic sub-forum, except there, it’s a Catholic who doesn’t believe there’s any evidence of Jesus having blood relatives besides Mary. Look at how Catholics are behaving in that conversation and you might get an idea of what’s going through your friend’s mind. As an atheist, he’s not able to be comfortable with admitting that theistic beliefs are plausible; as Catholics, your “forum brethren” aren’t going to be comfortable with admitting what certain things might indicate about Jesus’ brethren.
Actually, Jesus having blood relatives is a relatively recent doctrinal development. The reformers (Luther, Calvin, Zwingli et al) believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. The question to ask is: what has happened to interpretation of scripture in the intervening centuries?
 
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