I need input from devout Catholics on this problem

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It’s not that i don’t know the truth about this situation… I do… but how do i impart truth to those involved without sounding… [fill in the blanks… judgmental, etc…]?

basically i have this rather young relative who is living in sin with a woman. He used to be a monk (not sure what kind or what order or whatever). He says he’s still Catholic but he argues about how the Church and the Bible never said that sex before marriage is wrong!! :eek: i told him about how somewhere in the Word it says that fornicators won’t get to Heaven…

He just keeps throwing this liberal-sounding garbage at me & I am getting weary of arguing… feel that nothing i say will make a difference… He seems to interpret the Bible his own way Surprise Surprise… :rolleyes:

for some unknown reason they don’t want to get married… or maybe just he doesn’t…

i say if you don’t love someone enough to marry him or her you should definitely not be living with the person, even regardless of any moral concern…

What would YOU do? This person is very disrespectful… calls me names… implies that because I’ve been celibate for a long time, I don’t know anything about romantic love… says that love is more importnat than doctrine (somehting to that effect) and etc… etc… etc…
 
I would say first off pray for him and her. Secondly, when he calls you names just be patient, he is probably just trying to get you to react. After a while he will see that you are not going to react to his name calling and hopefully he will get bored of this. Deep down he probably knows what he is doing is wrong otherwise he would not try to convince you that what he is doing is ok. Maybe with time and prayer either she will get tired of no commitment or he will realize what he is doing is wrong.
 
pray, pray, pray

sometimes confronting someone resistant of the truth will not change their mind. if he has been taught in the past and now do something contrary, then just pray. the seeds of the truth has been planted in him and eventually it will grow through all the weeds. if you try to push him now, he’ll only go further away from the faith
 
Personally, I don’t converse with those who I see as disrespectful towards me. Usually I give them fair warning e.g. “I’ve been respectful to you and would request the same courtesy”. It’s not an ego thing…I don’t mind when people disagree passionately with me, it’s a matter of effective dialogue. If someone is more concerned with disrespecting/insulting/criticizing/calling youor I names, etc. than in enagaing in a conversation/debate/whatever, then, well… I’m not particularly interested in being a doormat.

I agree with Mustang. Usually the people who argue the loudest to defend their immoral positions are trying to convince themselves of their side of the argument.

Pray. If this person is willing to have a reasonable, respectful discussion, stick to your guns. If he is not, let the Lord take care of him. 😉
 
As Mustang1971 and choy have said: pray.

In his state of rebellion, further moral correction causes him only to dig his heels in deeper, rationalizing his behavior. Thus the insults.

Withdraw a safe distance, as our Lord would do in prayer. What you have is a prodigal son on his journey. Let it run its course, drawing him ever deeper into the coming sorrow - the emptiness which precedes the repentance.

In the meantime, follow the advice of Saint Pio: “pray, and do not worry”
 
Mustang1971 said:
I would say first off pray for him and her. Secondly, when he calls you names just be patient, he is probably just trying to get you to react. After a while he will see that you are not going to react to his name calling and hopefully he will get bored of this. Deep down he probably knows what he is doing is wrong otherwise he would not try to convince you that what he is doing is ok. Maybe with time and prayer either she will get tired of no commitment or he will realize what he is doing is wrong.
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wow, thats helpful… Strange that i didn’t get that thought b4… about how if i ignore his name calling he will get bored w/ it…

it may take awhile for him to get bored w/ it though… so far… uh… doesn’t seem the least bit bored… but oh well… this new generation doesn’t seem to show much respect for “elders”… :(… or for ANYONE… for that matter… :rolleyes:

i also never really thought much about him… deep down… knowing what he’s doing is wrong… I guess he’s good at sounding like he doesn’t think its wrong… or maybe i am NOT good at looking beyond a person’s actual words… :hypno::banghead::hmmm::coffeeread:

anyhow… thanks…
 
choy said:
pray, pray, pray

sometimes confronting someone resistant of the truth will not change their mind. if he has been taught in the past and now do something contrary, then just pray. the seeds of the truth has been planted in him and eventually it will grow through all the weeds. if you try to push him now, he’ll only go further away from the faith
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this is why i don’t want to correspond w/ him any longer… its going nowhere… just an abuse session, it seems…

i kinda get the feeling he’s trying to insinate that i am a dried up old prune who doesn’t know - or remember - anything about loving anyone… all i know about is spouting doctrine and Church teaching… In other words, i have no heart, just a brain… (and he probably doesn’t want to acknowledge i even have on of those…:hypno: …Then again, how could he possibly think THAT??? :D)

I hate not answering people when they write but it seems there is NO other choice… I mean it seems SO rude to do that… but if someone is just abusing your over and over… disrespecting what you say, twisting your words, calling you hateful things…

any answer i give is just going to perpetuate the unkosher situation… :banghead::ouch:
 
Newbie2 said:
Personally, I don’t converse with those who I see as disrespectful towards me. Usually I give them fair warning e.g. “I’ve been respectful to you and would request the same courtesy”. It’s not an ego thing…I don’t mind when people disagree passionately with me, it’s a matter of effective dialogue. If someone is more concerned with disrespecting/insulting/criticizing/calling youor I names, etc. than in enagaing in a conversation/debate/whatever, then, well… I’m not particularly interested in being a doormat.

I agree with Mustang. Usually the people who argue the loudest to defend their immoral positions are trying to convince themselves of their side of the argument.

Pray. If this person is willing to have a reasonable, respectful discussion, stick to your guns. If he is not, let the Lord take care of him. 😉
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i totally agree and have been basically following this… i say basically cuz i still feel guilty about not answering his emails…I have only declined to anser the last one…

i did tell him some time ago something about not appreciating being disrespected… so maybe that’s “warning” enough?

I also don’t believe in being a doormat… been there, done that 2 many freaking times…

i just wonder what effect totaly ignoring him will have on him? He sometimes does say things that indicate he wants my (name removed by moderator)ut… but … well, now that i think of this… he may not get the notion into his head (yet) that i mean it when i say i won’t accept being disrespected… cuz if he had gottne that thro his head he woudnt keep saying awful things…Basically he implies that i am some kind of moral pervert… if that term makes any sense…:confused: Like i have ditched real human love for doctrines and books, etc… that kind of hting… as if the 2 (beliefs & love) can be separated… I mean, you couldn’t have a loving & heallthy relationship with someone who doesn’t share your doctrines/beliefs… but anyhow… i lost my train of thought here…

i just feel lik not answering, but there’s this guilt … hmmm…
 
po18guy said:
As Mustang1971 and choy have said: pray.

In his state of rebellion, further moral correction causes him only to dig his heels in deeper, rationalizing his behavior. Thus the insults.

Withdraw a safe distance, as our Lord would do in prayer. What you have is a prodigal son on his journey. Let it run its course, drawing him ever deeper into the coming sorrow - the emptiness which precedes the repentance.

In the meantime, follow the advice of Saint Pio: “pray, and do not worry”
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so do you think its unChrstian to not reply any longer?

normally i don’t do that kind of thing…ignore people… but i am tired of being treated like i am… well, again… like some kind of “pervert” (he didn’t use that word but there was a strong implication that he thought something along those lines)…
 
You have done your duty now do as the scriptures say and wipe of the dust from your feet and be separate from him.

“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.” Matthew 10:14

"Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? [15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?

[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God; as God saith: I will dwell in them, and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore, Go out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: [18] And I will receive you; and I will be a Father to you; and you shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. " 2 Cor
 
i half-way feel like laughing…

i mean, imagine that…

being implicated as some kind of pervert (sicko??) because you actually adhere to the teachings of Christ and His Church… :hypno:

yes, i shouldbe laughing… that’s pretty funny…
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
You have done your duty now do as the scriptures say and wipe of the dust from your feet and be separate from him.
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yes, i think that’s the route to take…

too much dust on you can kinda make you … start coughing and … just be very unpleasant…
 
distracted said:
i half-way feel like laughing…

i mean, imagine that…

being implicated as some kind of pervert (sicko??) because you actually adhere to the teachings of Christ and His Church… :hypno:

yes, i shouldbe laughing… that’s pretty funny…
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Yeah, but that’s a badge of honor…“blessed are those”…👍

If your communications with the other person were via email, it’s understandable how someone could be rude/insulting/disrespectful, more so that is than talking to you on the phone or in person.

You’ve done your duty…👍…but if you wanted to give it another try in a month or two and wanted to leave it open, you might think about sending an email to the tune of “You know, I’d like to keep discussing this with you, if you’d like but…” and spell out the ground rules for civil conversation. That puts the ball in his court, whether or not to continue.

Good luck and God bless.
 
distracted said:
He sometimes does say things that indicate he wants my (name removed by moderator)ut…
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First of all, do not feel guilty that you are not ressponding to his abusive correspondence to you. *He is the one who is being rude. *He is the one who should feel ashamed and guilty.

Secondly, from this comment of yours, I would say that he is trying to win you over to his side so that he can feel more justified in his sin. I know that sounds weird, but I have noticed this tendency–someone is sinning, and they want others to accept it so they don’t have to feel guilty. His saying all that stuff is just trying harder to get you to understand his side and come over to it.

If this were me, if he ever brought it up again, I would simply say, you know what I think, and I am not going to discuss it with you any more. And hand up on him, ignore his emails, show him the door, walk away from him as necessary. Seriously, there is absolutely no need to engage with rude sinners in order to be polite–he is taking advantage of your politeness to abuse you!!!
 
distracted said:
so do you think its unChrstian to not reply any longer?
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Not at all. He learned basic moral values in his family. These were reinforced by his order. If he rejected them, he will reject you just as he is currently rejecting even God. We are not called upon to waste our time, but to proclaim the truth. You have done that and the ball is in his court. Allow God’s plan to unfold before you. In time, he will express contrition.
distracted said:
normally i don’t do that kind of thing…ignore people… but i am tired of being treated like i am… well, again… like some kind of “pervert” (he didn’t use that word but there was a strong implication that he thought something along those lines)…
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I suggest that you distance yourself from him and try not to subject yourself to it. The only good that can come from engaging him is to suffer for Christ’s name. But, prudence is required here: you do not want him to multiply his sin, but only to suffer the temporal price of it so that he may be lead to repentance.

We humans always seem to begin by doing something rather than praying something. Doing something is of the flesh, while praying something is of the spirit. At times, we must do something physical, but always we must pray. The antidote for spiritual rebellion is prayer in the Spirit. Saint Monica is a great patron in a case such as this.

americancatholic.org/features/saints/saint.aspx?id=1120

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
Newbie2 said:
Yeah, but that’s a badge of honor…“blessed are those”…👍

If your communications with the other person were via email, it’s understandable how someone could be rude/insulting/disrespectful, more so that is than talking to you on the phone or in person.

You’ve done your duty…👍…but if you wanted to give it another try in a month or two and wanted to leave it open, you might think about sending an email to the tune of “You know, I’d like to keep discussing this with you, if you’d like but…” and spell out the ground rules for civil conversation. That puts the ball in his court, whether or not to continue.

Good luck and God bless.
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but i want that ball!!

😃
 
St_Francis said:
First of all, do not feel guilty that you are not ressponding to his abusive correspondence to you. *He is the one who is being rude. *He is the one who should feel ashamed and guilty.

Secondly, from this comment of yours, I would say that he is trying to win you over to his side so that he can feel more justified in his sin. I know that sounds weird, but I have noticed this tendency–someone is sinning, and they want others to accept it so they don’t have to feel guilty. His saying all that stuff is just trying harder to get you to understand his side and come over to it.

If this were me, if he ever brought it up again, I would simply say, you know what I think, and I am not going to discuss it with you any more. And hand up on him, ignore his emails, show him the door, walk away from him as necessary. Seriously, there is absolutely no need to engage with rude sinners in order to be polite–he is taking advantage of your politeness to abuse you!!!
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this is exactly as i see it… didn’t need advice about that part…

its just that i … again feel i should at least acknowledge his last correspondence… maybe with just some short one liner…

i dont’ feel its a sin for me to decline to answer… but… just makes me feel uncomrtotanble cuz no one likes to be ignored…

still, being uncomfortable … by itself… won’t make me respond… i’m still thinking on this… :hmmm:
 
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