I need Secular Arguments Against Gay Marriage

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I don’t think you’re going to have much luck reaching an atheist. It’s a moral issue and that comes from God and they don’t acknowledge God so you’re not going to have much luck. A secular argument against it? I don’t know if there is one.
 
As Iwest implies, the studies definitely do not show a problem and in most cases show that there can be positive outcomes. You will find that some reports (from both sides of the debate) are slanted in one way or the other. So the impressions you get from any given article may depend on who is writing it.

If you have a bias towards one argument or another you will be able to find a report that backs up your view. But I think your best bet would be to agree that there is no defining secular argument against it and argue the moral aspects.

And as Iwest says…god luck with that.
 
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I would say that by removing the man-woman component from the definition of marriage, it turns the concept of marriage into a slightly elevated friendship or romance.

As opposed to man-woman-child being a basic unit of society.
 
Oh, and why would you even want the government involved?
 
As I understand the Catholic view of marriage, Church opposition to same-sex marriage is not in anyway based on its outcomes. Even were it proved that the children of homosexual couples were happier, brainer and more likely to be faithful Catholics the Church would still oppose homosexual marriage. So why are you debating this at all? It’s irrelevant to the Church’s position. It might be a useful debating point about law change etc. but if you win the argument you have not advanced Catholic belief at all.
 
I recall seeing a study which found that same sex couples have higher rates of domestic violence, not exactly the kind of environment you want to see children stuck with.

Also, normalizing homosexuality puts us on a slope to other horrors, such as transgenderism and eventually pedophilia.
 
OP cites the scientific research which can prove or disprove the effect of gay marriage on children, that is OP tries to use Science to come up with strong yes/no proof about the impact of gay marriage on children. I poste my doubts that Science can come with such answer at all and I mentioned a lot of things that show that Science have no definite answers whatsoever. I just wanted to say with my post that it is quite brutal to find Scientific proofs for the moral commandments. Science some sometimes give contradictory answers, sometimes even at odds with the initial expectations. Then what? Should we reject commandments?

Commandments are from the God and we should interpret and reinterpret them in the light of Science. And not use the Science to justify, prove them. I always wonder how some people are trying to use Science e.g. to justify the chastity commandments, the norms for intimate behavior. It is so strange. And it is strange in this case as well.

Science is the context for the interpretation of the Commandments and not the basis of the proof of them. It is my view.

So - with this I am trying to advise not to use Science for building secular arguments against gay marriage.

Here is my original post which was removed, but I guess - it was removed only because the flagger and the staff could make the connection of that post with the question:
I love Science but I don’t know single question about which the Science can give strict yes/no answer. Even math - there are so much discussions about fundamentals - classical vs intuitionistic approach. Turing limit in computing seemed the definite limit - but now there are hypercomputation and super-Turing efforts. Death from aging seemed to be definite fact, but current medical research is exploring not only anti-aging but rejuvenation as well - even Nature reported successful clinical trial which reverted 1-1.5 years of the biological age. There is no unifying physical theory of everything, etc. etc.

And you are asking to get definite answer from the Science about such complex issue. Uhhh, aren’t there better things to do?’
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Now my context explains that. So - yes, you can seek for the Scientific answers but I suggest the meta-level look on your question - I doubt that such answers are of ay worth because of the limitation of Science in the sphere of Theology.

Science can give case-by-case suggestions for the optimal behavior and that is very big contribution from the Science and we should use it. But I am very cautious about the generalizing the results for this question of Science at the level of federal law or even at the level of Commandment (expressed in less than 5 words).
 
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Askmea said:
I was debating an atheist by saying that I think homosexual marriage was immorala then hw gave me this link showing that hokosexuals raise children justnas well as heterosexuals
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This is not the gauge of whether a marriage is moral or permissible in the eyes of the Church.

There are good parents out there who are divorced and remarried, who are married to three spouses, and who are not married at all and just living with one or more heterosexual partners. The Church does not change its position on divorce and remarriage, or on poly marriage, or on people living together and fornicating outside of marriage, based on whether the kids are doing all right.
 
I’d love to know how many children of same sex couples grow up heterosexual. Way back in the 90s a young man early 20s rang into a late night show defending being raised by a male same sex couple but straight away you could tell he himself was gay. I was always curious as to what way the sexuality of the parents plays in the formation of the child.
 
Secular Argument Against Gay Marriage: GAY DIVORCE!

It’s awful.

Historically, gay couples simply “break up” when they realize that they are no longer in love or that living together is not working out for them. The one who leaves takes his/her possessions and departs. It’s sad and heartbreaking, but there are no legal issues, no lawyer, no “alimony”, no arguing over possessions that both of them bought together and therefore, both have legal right to, no legal fees to pay, etc.

The gay couples that I know who have gone through gay divorce say that they would never get married again because the necessity of a “divorce” with all the legal issues is just so very painful and stressful as compared with simply walking away.

I can’t even imagine what a “gay divorce” would mean for any children–it’s tough enough for children of heterosexual couples to go through their parents’ divorce.
 
SuperLawyer said:
I recall seeing a study which found that same sex couples have higher rates of domestic violence, not exactly the kind of environment you want to see children stuck with.

Also, normalizing homosexuality puts us on a slope to other horrors, such as transgenderism and eventually pedophilia.
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Seven posts in and we have paedophilia mentioned. I didn’t expect it this soon.
 
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Back in the 90s doing some reporting on the AIDS crisis, I listened to a gay guy say he was promiscuous because, “It’s not like we’ll ever be able to get married.” So no, I don’t think you’re going to find a secular argument against gay marriage.
 
Juvenal said:
I listened to a gay guy say he was promiscuous because, “It’s not like we’ll ever be able to get married.”
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Exactly so! The demonization of the LGBT has created a lot of false identities inside SSA people, lot of drug culture, being-dirty culture was only because the society has said so frequently that LGTB is about sex, about non-chastity and not about humanity. So, they have few good role models, few invitations to being human.

It is hard dilemma for the Church. Church can strive for the rigorous implementation of the current (this is very important to stress - current - not eternal) teaching on SSA, but it can also find ways to humanize SSA, to reflect about intimate chastity, charity, love and humanity in SSA relationships, to bring up the best of human souls when they are reconciling their SSA charisma with their faith and their communities.
 
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SuperLawyer said:
Im sorry if it bothers you but that’s the endgame for the LGBTQ++. Why else do you think they target children so early with this stuff. Why else do we have “non binary babies” and a sudden influx of prepubescent kids who think they are trans. It’s to normalize sexualizing children with the final objective being a society that tolerates pedophilia.

The slippery slope is real.
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Despicable and shameful comments which have no place in this forum.
 
Your lack of a substantive objection is troubling. You seem to be guided by feelings in the face of facts. Especially since you haven’t rebutted anything I’ve stated and are instead appealing to emotion.

Equally as troubling is how these ideas you’re so in favor of are infiltrating places such as the church in Germany and putting them on the path to schism.

We need brave people to stand up to what’s going on in today’s society.
 
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Im sorry if it bothers you but that’s the endgame for the LGBTQ++.
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Obergefell was decided in 2015. If you’re speaking about anything else as an endgame for gay marriage, you need to specify your antecedent, because it’s up in the air right now.
Why else do you think they target children so early with this stuff. Why else do we have “non binary babies” and a sudden influx of prepubescent kids who think they are trans. It’s to normalize sexualizing children with the final objective being a society that tolerates pedophilia.
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The US is a country of 330 million people. We have Christians here who think God has called on them to dance with poisonous snakes, and others who think God wants them to hate gays.

Allow me to suggest while both of them are crazy, the former is a better role model.
The slippery slope is real.
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That’s what they say about marijuana. And while it’s not that common, there’s evidence that sometimes it’s true.
 
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Peeps said:
Secular Argument Against Gay Marriage: GAY DIVORCE!

It’s awful.
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There’s straight divorce too.
Peeps said:
The one who leaves takes his/her possessions and departs. It’s sad and heartbreaking, but there are no legal issues, no lawyer, no “alimony”, no arguing over possessions that both of them bought together and therefore, both have legal right to, no legal fees to pay, etc.
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How is this any different that for straight people? Unmarried straight ppl face the same issues. Heck, in my state if an unmarried couple can be proven to have lived together long enough there’s a chance a divorce lite procedure can occur via a “Marvin claim” colloquially called “palimony”.

One could argue the pain of divorce is a civil incentive to choose wisely and stay married.
 
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