I need Secular Arguments Against Gay Marriage

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Children living with gay couples always miss out on one parent, either their biological mother or father. In some cases, they miss out on both, just as a child who is put up for adoption lacks both. But the difference is, in the case of children of gay parents, a lost parent was part of the actual plan. In other words, it’s one thing if a child ends up missing a parent or even two, but quite another if it’s designed like this.
 
Remember “studies” are not always legit. There are dishonest studies. Some years ago a 20 year editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr Marcia Angel, warned about this. We’ve seen some horribly dishonest COVID related studies. At least two of them were retracted due to fake data. Not too many years ago a pro-gay study appeared in a major magazine; however, it was later determined to have included some fake data. I probably could dig up the reference if requested.
 
Communities should desire/expect more from martial unions than the love between the two, namely more loving offspring. For if a martial union is solely about the love between the two, the unnecessary legal work will cause strain on the community without gain of building the community.
 
SuperLawyer said:
a sudden influx of prepubescent kids who think they are trans. It’s to normalize sexualizing children with the final objective being a society that tolerates pedophilia.
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Gender identification and sexualisation of children are not the same thing. I know children who are being raised in other than the gender recognised at their birth. The is no element of sexualisation.
 
jochoa said:
Communities should desire/expect more from martial unions than the love between the two, namely more loving offspring. For if a martial union is solely about the love between the two, the unnecessary legal work will cause strain on the community without gain of building the community.
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If an opposite sex couple was mutually infertile, or beyond child-rearing age, would you advocate against their marriage? I don’t think you’ve thought this through. More directly, every mutually supportive couple removes strain from the community by taking care of each other so that the community doesn’t need to step in.
 
PapyrusDouay said:
The same percentage as with heterosexual couples.
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Apparently not…
" children in lesbian families are more likely to be less certain about future heterosexual romantic involvement is in line with the finding of Tasker and Golombok (1997), who showed that young adults raised by lesbian mothers are more likely to consider a same-sex relationship as a valid alternative than those who were raised by heterosexual parents."

 
Xarto said:
Apparently not…
" children in lesbian families are more likely to be less certain about future heterosexual romantic involvement is in line with the finding of Tasker and Golombok (1997), who showed that young adults raised by lesbian mothers are more likely to consider a same-sex relationship as a valid alternative than those who were raised by heterosexual parents ."
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That’s a good article. But it does not disagree with what I said. The study looked at children 8-12 years old. They’ve barely hit puberty, so their concepts of sexuality are still largely undeveloped. The researchers even said they doubt all the children completely understood the questions they were being asked.

All that the study really shows is that the children see lesbian and heterosexual relationships as equally valid. Which is not surprising, as it is a normalized situation for them.

It does not at all suggest that in 5 to 10 years from the study, when these children begin developing sexual and romantic feeling, or as they mature into young adults, that their sexuality will be statistically different than the population as a whole.
 
I respectfully disagree - both consist of child abuse and both consist of causing a sexual awakening in the child prior to when it would naturally come about.
 
I don’t think there is a secular argument one could make for why gay marriage shouldn’t be legal. Studies show that same sex couples can be just as functional and raise children just as well as opposite-sex couples.

Granted a same-sex couple can’t produce children through traditional means, but I don’t think there was ever a law on the books in the United States which required a couple to be fertile in order to be married. And in any case a same-sex couple can have children through surrogate pregnancy, through adoption, or due to one of the persons in the couple having a child from a prior relationship.
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
Do you believe such a demand is still practical?
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Yes, I know such a goal is practical.

Communities granting distinct rights to couples who are committed to one another amidst good and bad times until death, as well as open to procreation in sexual intimacy, is incredibly freeing for the community.

My grandparents educated my parents to marry accordingly. My parents educated me to live accordingly, and I am educating my children to live accordingly. And on grander scale, the Catholic Community has taught us this approach to marriage.

Some of the freedoms that come from life-long marriage, that are open to procreation in solely marital sex are: All the effort placed in legal matters over divorce and materialistic stuff is lost, all the effort in contraception and abortion is lost, and the community gets more people that get to both enjoy the community as well as help grow the community.
 
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Juvenal said:
If an opposite sex couple was mutually infertile, or beyond child-rearing age, would you advocate against their marriage? I don’t think you’ve thought this through. More directly, every mutually supportive couple removes strain from the community by taking care of each other so that the community doesn’t need to step in.
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If by some means a couple desiring to be married knew they were infertile, I would discourage marriage between the two. Also, I wouldn’t advocate against any valid opposite-sex marriage for any reason. Furthermore, If a marriage isn’t committed until death, the “marriage” will hurt the community in the long run.

If a person is straining the community prior to marriage, not only does s/he need a care-provider, s/he shouldn’t be granted the duty to provide for others. This is why communities shouldn’t allow children to marry.
 
jochoa said:
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Juvenal:
If an opposite sex couple was mutually infertile, or beyond child-rearing age, would you advocate against their marriage? I don’t think you’ve thought this through. More directly, every mutually supportive couple removes strain from the community by taking care of each other so that the community doesn’t need to step in.
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If by some means a couple desiring to be married knew they were infertile, I would discourage marriage between the two.
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Maybe we need to have a sperm count done before anyone starts dating seriously. If you are married I take it you got yourself checked out first? Or at least will do before you get married.
 
SuperLawyer said:
both consist of child abuse and both consist of causing a sexual awakening in the child prior to when it would naturally come about.
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Totally agree about sexual abuse. But what is your evidence that raising a child as other than the gender assigned at birth ‘causes a ‘sexual awakening’ in the child prior to when it would naturally come about’?
 
Because as a male child, when I was <12 I had exactly zero idea what a vagina was, how it interacts with the male genitals I was born with, or how I could possibly be anything other than what I was.

The simple fact is that a child’s understanding of gender is beyond superficial. All they know is that dad is a male who is rougher and bigger than mom who is a female with soft features and long hair.

It is impossible to explain the distinctions between the genders to a child that early, let alone implant in them the notion that they could be the opposite gender or no gender alone without clueing them into the relationship between gender, sex, and the purpose of genitals.
 
Freddy said:
Maybe we need to have a sperm count done before anyone starts dating seriously. If you are married I take it you got yourself checked out first? Or at least will do before you get married.
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A sperm count is over complicated and unnecessary.
A. In the case of homosexual acts, it is known that the couple will be incapable of procreating.
B. In the case of fiancés consideration of future martial acts, it is easy to ask: “Will you remain open to the possibility of creating children?” AND if one says, “No,” then don’t get married.
 
jochoa said:
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Freddy:
Maybe we need to have a sperm count done before anyone starts dating seriously. If you are married I take it you got yourself checked out first? Or at least will do before you get married.
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A sperm count is over complicated and unnecessary.
A. In the case of homosexual acts, it is known that the couple will be incapable of procreating.
B. In the case of fiancés consideration of future martial acts, it is easy to ask: “Will you remain open to the possibility of creating children?” AND if one says, “No,” then don’t get married.
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But you didn’t say that heterosexual people shouldn’t get married if they chose not to have children. You said if they were infertile. Unless tested, you are not going to know until your attempts to have children (after you are married) fail.

So how is this going to work? If you are married, how did you know you weren’t infertile? If you are not married, how are you going to find out?
 
So you don’t have any actual evidence? Just your memories of childhood? I have them too. They are different from yours. And of course the idea that genitals have a ‘purpose’ is a specifically religious idea which people like me do not share. Genitals have a range of functions that have responded to evolutionary pressure in different circumstances.
 
SuperLawyer said:
Also, normalizing homosexuality puts us on a slope to other horrors, such as transgenderism and eventually pedophilia.
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Hmmm… Square brackets time.

[Citation Needed]
SuperLawyer said:
Because as a male child, when I was <12 I had exactly zero idea what a vagina was,
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This is why solid sex and relationships education is a must, you really should have an understanding of the reproductive system by that age.
 
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