I need your opinions.

[damooster]

Since I started RCIA, I have been visiting some other parishes, but I mainly attend Mass at the church I’m attending RCIA at. This parish is considered very liberal, and in the short time I’ve been going there, I’ve noticed the atmosphere of the parish keeps sliding towards the more progressive side. It’s like people are trying to push the envelope more and more every week.

Let me elaborate: people clap during the Father’s homily. They did it today and the visiting priest was stunned by it; you could tell he didn’t know how to react. A few weeks ago, the Father’s dog limped on to the stage, laid down underneath the altar, and slept there until the end of Mass. Everyone does that posture, where they cup their hands, as if in offering, and say “And also with you” (which I think is the Orans posture). During prayer offerings this morning, someone yelled out “And on a lighter note…” to which people laughed (I found that inappropriate since the person before him asked everyone to pray for their family member who was just diagnosed with cancer). And let’s not talk about how much singing goes on! I could list these kinds of things all day, but I hope you get the picture.

To get to my point, I don’t like what I see at this parish, but I feel comfortable there compared to the ones in my area. I’m a blue collar guy that lives in a very well-to-do area. The other parishes I’ve been to are frequented by well-off people who are snotty and stuck up. Despite the abuses I witness at my parish, I feel comfortable there; like I can be myself.

So that’s my struggle: do I stay in my current parish, and hope I can spend quality time with God there despite the obnoxious things going on around me, or am I better off spiritually attending a more traditional parish, but feeling squeamish? I really do try to focus my attention on God at Mass, but my current parish makes it very hard to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, I should also note that my RCIA parish is not my home parish. I’ve been to my home parish once, but I did not feel comfortable at all there. During the peace offering, the majority of people ignored me. I was pretty hurt by that, and am hesitant to go back (I will though, to give it another chance).

 

[kage_ar]

Since I started RCIA, I have been visiting some other parishes, but I mainly attend Mass at the church I’m attending RCIA at. This parish is considered very liberal, and in the short time I’ve been going there, I’ve noticed the atmosphere of the parish keeps sliding towards the more progressive side. It’s like people are trying to push the envelope more and more every week.

Let me elaborate: people clap during the Father’s homily. They did it today and the visiting priest was stunned by it; you could tell he didn’t know how to react.

People clap during homilies, sometimes during the Pope’s homilies. This is not in and of itself something to leave a Parish over.

A few weeks ago, the Father’s dog limped on to the stage, laid down underneath the altar, and slept there until the end of Mass.

First, there are Catholics who will turn every shade of purple if you call the altar “the stage”.

What I’m going to assume is that either your Priest’s rectory or office has a door that opens directly into the Church, the door was left open and the dog wandered into the Altar area?

The Priest is not supposed to leave the Altar during Mass, one of the Altar Servers should have led the dog back to the office or rectory.

Everyone does that posture, where they cup their hands, as if in offering, and say “And also with you” (which I think is the Orans posture).

Welcome to 80% of the Parishes in the USA.

During prayer offerings this morning, someone yelled out “And on a lighter note…” to which people laughed (I found that inappropriate since the person before him asked everyone to pray for their family member who was just diagnosed with cancer).

Explain what you mean by prayer offerings. The Mass has the prayer intentions, but these are not called out from the Parishioners, they are to be read from a prepared list.

And let’s not talk about how much singing goes on! I could list these kinds of things all day, but I hope you get the picture.

Singing is part of Mass.

Oh, I should also note that my RCIA parish is not my home parish. I’ve been to my home parish once, but I did not feel comfortable at all there. During the peace offering, the majority of people ignored me. I was pretty hurt by that, and am hesitant to go back (I will though, to give it another chance).

The “sign of peace” is not supposed to be a big group hug. They were not ignoring you, they were simply being reverent.

 

[passus]

I can only suggest that you regularly attend and make yourself active at the parish where you are completing your RCIA. That is the parish where the reception of your sacraments of initiation will be recorded and those are the parishioners of the community you will be welcomed into and first called to serve as a member of the Church in full communion.

 

[Eucharisted]

Tell the pastor about the liturgical abuses, be a good example, and trust in Jesus

 

[OAKIE]

I read your request for opinions and went to the website of the parish you have linked. I looked at the parish bulletin and saw the commentary by Joan Chittister, who is really Sister Joan Chittister, a dissident nun who is a leading advocate of women’s ordination and who also lamented the election of Pope Benedict XVI. Each pastor has a variety of options regarding what type of teaching/commentary to include in the bulletin, including writing one himself, or omitting any commentary at all if he is not satisfied with the fidelity of the teaching provided by a subscription service. The fact that Sr. Joan is in your bulletin causes me to be of the opinion that your parish in not very orthodox. If you are going to complete RCIA this Easter, I would continue with RCIA where you are, and would look for a new parish after Pentecost. If you’re coming into the Church is not until next Easter, and assuming you are interested in following a less liberal path, I would run like Hades to the nearest Catholic Church that remains faithful to Rome and to the 2,000+ years of Jesus Christ.

 

[RainDown]

I would go to a different church. If you go there long enough you’re bound feel at least a little more comfortable than you initially did.

 

[FrDavid96]

…

So that’s my struggle: do I stay in my current parish, and hope I can spend quality time with God there despite the obnoxious things going on around me, or am I better off spiritually attending a more traditional parish, but feeling squeamish? I really do try to focus my attention on God at Mass, but my current parish makes it very hard to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, I should also note that my RCIA parish is not my home parish. I’ve been to my home parish once, but I did not feel comfortable at all there. During the peace offering, the majority of people ignored me. I was pretty hurt by that, and am hesitant to go back (I will though, to give it another chance).

damooster,
You realy should be going to your home parish for RCIA–that’s the parish in which territory you have an actual residence. This is very important (especially when it comes to Confirmation).
Where you decide to attend Mass after you become Catholic is a different matter, but as far as the actual Rites of Initiation are concerned they have to be done in one’s proper parish (and “registration” is irrelevant here; it’s residence, not registration).

 

[damooster]

People clap during homilies, sometimes during the Pope’s homilies. This is not in and of itself something to leave a Parish over.

I can understand some clapping, but they clap all the time. I just find it kind of annoying.

First, there are Catholics who will turn every shade of purple if you call the altar “the stage”.

Thank you for correcting me.

Explain what you mean by prayer offerings. The Mass has the prayer intentions, but these are not called out from the Parishioners, they are to be read from a prepared list.

Sorry, I meant prayer intentions. The prayer intentions are read, and then the commentator asks “For what else shall we pray for, brothers and sisters” and people in the congregation are then allowed to shout out their personal prayer intentions.

Singing is part of Mass.

There’s a lot more of it here than at the others I’ve been to.

The “sign of peace” is not supposed to be a big group hug. They were not ignoring you, they were simply being reverent.

No, they ignored me. The people around me shook hands with each other, but when I offered my hand to three of them, they looked at me and refused to shake my hand. They did the same thing to my sponsor. I asked him afterwards if we had done something wrong, and he told me that the particular parish is known to be snooty and that’s why he normally does not go there (this is the parish that is technically my home parish and also his).

Thanks for your insight.

 

[damooster]

I read your request for opinions and went to the website of the parish you have linked. I looked at the parish bulletin and saw the commentary by Joan Chittister, who is really Sister Joan Chittister, a dissident nun who is a leading advocate of women’s ordination and who also lamented the election of Pope Benedict XVI. Each pastor has a variety of options regarding what type of teaching/commentary to include in the bulletin, including writing one himself, or omitting any commentary at all if he is not satisfied with the fidelity of the teaching provided by a subscription service. The fact that Sr. Joan is in your bulletin causes me to be of the opinion that your parish in not very orthodox. If you are going to complete RCIA this Easter, I would continue with RCIA where you are, and would look for a new parish after Pentecost. If you’re coming into the Church is not until next Easter, and assuming you are interested in following a less liberal path, I would run like Hades to the nearest Catholic Church that remains faithful to Rome and to the 2,000+ years of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for visiting the parish website to learn more about it! I forgot the parish website was in my signature.

The church is a very liberal one. The RCIA team members tell me this all the time, and so do the Social Justice committee members. When I was mingling amongst my fellow Elect at the recent reception after our Rite of Election, people told me how liberal they heard my parish is. From what I’ve seen, it’s very notorious within the diocese.

I will be baptized this Easter and think I will do some parish shopping. There are a couple in the area that I have not yet been to.

And thank you for telling me about Sr. Joan. Now I have more research to do!

 

[damooster]

damooster,
You realy should be going to your home parish for RCIA–that’s the parish in which territory you have an actual residence. This is very important (especially when it comes to Confirmation).
Where you decide to attend Mass after you become Catholic is a different matter, but as far as the actual Rites of Initiation are concerned they have to be done in one’s proper parish (and “registration” is irrelevant here; it’s residence, not registration).

I started RCIA late (in November), and my current RCIA team is the only one that allowed me to start when I did. I asked about this when I first started and was told that this was fine. Is this something I need to verify with my home parish or diocese?

 

[OAKIE]

I started RCIA late (in November), and my current RCIA team is the only one that allowed me to start when I did. I asked about this when I first started and was told that this was fine. Is this something I need to verify with my home parish or diocese?

When my wife came into the Church last Easter, we were not in our territorial parish, but in a more faithful one only 1 mile further. I don’t think it is a huge problem. My wife would not have made it in RCIA at the other (liberal) parish, but I was already a parishioner in the parish we chose and our daughter is in grade school at that parish also, so we knew many people in the RCIA parish. This body of believers went out to their way to welcome her into the Church and we are grateful.

 

[The_Prodigal]

I started RCIA late (in November), and my current RCIA team is the only one that allowed me to start when I did. I asked about this when I first started and was told that this was fine. Is this something I need to verify with my home parish or diocese?

I will defer to FrDavid96’s better knowledge of the letter of the law here, but where I live, on the NY/PA border, it’s not unknown for the faithful living on the NY side to be baptized and/or confirmed in the parish right across the border on the PA side (in a different diocese, obviously).

 

[FrDavid96]

I started RCIA late (in November), and my current RCIA team is the only one that allowed me to start when I did. I asked about this when I first started and was told that this was fine. Is this something I need to verify with my home parish or diocese?

The letter of the law is clear, but the actual application can be a bit confusing.

A priest may admit an adult into the Church, and be the minister of confirmation even when that person is an “extern”–one who lives outside of the parish territory, but that only applies if the bishop has not established otherwise.
That’s just one example of what I’m talking about. There are others.

The point is that Catholics (or potential Catholics) should always first seek the Sacraments from their own proper pastor, outside of an emergency or other obvious reason like travelling of course. There may very well be particular law (the law of your own diocese) which regulates this. Given how liberal that parish is, I wouldn’t entirely trust them to “do what’s right” when it comes to who is eligible for RCIA within their own parish either (not to say that I think they would do it wrong, but I wouldn’t “trust” them). If you approach your own proper pastor first, you might still be able to be received into the Church (or is it Baptised? I can’t tell from the posts) in another parish if that’s what you want. The proper pastor should always be the starting-point in cases like this.

 

[damooster]

The letter of the law is clear, but the actual application can be a bit confusing.

A priest may admit an adult into the Church, and be the minister of confirmation even when that person is an “extern”–one who lives outside of the parish territory, but that only applies if the bishop has not established otherwise.
That’s just one example of what I’m talking about. There are others.

The point is that Catholics (or potential Catholics) should always first seek the Sacraments from their own proper pastor, outside of an emergency or other obvious reason like travelling of course. There may very well be particular law (the law of your own diocese) which regulates this. Given how liberal that parish is, I wouldn’t entirely trust them to “do what’s right” when it comes to who is eligible for RCIA within their own parish either (not to say that I think they would do it wrong, but I wouldn’t “trust” them). If you approach your own proper pastor first, you might still be able to be received into the Church (or is it Baptised? I can’t tell from the posts) in another parish if that’s what you want. The proper pastor should always be the starting-point in cases like this.

What if I proceed with my baptism as scheduled? Is it not valid? I’ve already been through the Rite of Election and I am just waiting for my baptism on Easter.

What do you recommend I do? Should I contact the Director of Religious Education at my home parish? Are they going to make me start over?

The last thing I want to happen is that I be forced to start over next year.

 

[FrDavid96]

What if I proceed with my baptism as scheduled? Is it not valid? I’ve already been through the Rite of Election and I am just waiting for my baptism on Easter.

What do you recommend I do? Should I contact the Director of Religious Education at my home parish? Are they going to make me start over?

The last thing I want to happen is that I be forced to start over next year.

damooster,
As I read your original post, I saw that you yourself were considering three options; Stay with the liberal parish, go to another parish, or go to your home parish. I was simply saying that of the three options which you presented for consideration, going to the home pastor (at least as a start) would be the best of the 3. I don’t know where things might go from there, but starting with one’s proper pastor is always the right thing to do.

PS As I think about this, I realize that the point I’m realy trying to make is that when a person has a question about something so important as RCIA, the real source for counsel and advice should be one’s own pastor. People here can be very helpful, but shouldn’t be seen as a substitute for the pastor’s ministry. I know that’s not what you were doing, but I simply needed to make the point.

 

[damooster]

damooster,
As I read your original post, I saw that you yourself were considering three options; Stay with the liberal parish, go to another parish, or go to your home parish. I was simply saying that of the three options which you presented for consideration, going to the home pastor (at least as a start) would be the best of the 3. I don’t know where things might go from there, but starting with one’s proper pastor is always the right thing to do.

My intent was to make a decision once I was baptized in April. I was going to attend Mass at the parish when required to (for ceremonies that I participate in), but possibly attend Mass at another parish when I had the option.

Thank you for your help Father David. I will do the right thing and contact my home parish tomorrow. If my fears of having to start over become a reality, I will do so willingly. But I will do the right thing.

 

[Shin]

damooster,
You realy should be going to your home parish for RCIA–that’s the parish in which territory you have an actual residence. This is very important (especially when it comes to Confirmation).
Where you decide to attend Mass after you become Catholic is a different matter, but as far as the actual Rites of Initiation are concerned they have to be done in one’s proper parish (and “registration” is irrelevant here; it’s residence, not registration).

Frankly, while I know territoriality is still in vogue in some circles, proper catechesis trumps this 100%. If the pastor likes to quote heretics as if they were Catholics in good standing – If he’s going to RCIA in a parish where he’s being taught stuff that just isn’t Catholic, or has foundational problems – all the signs are that this parish is one more harmful than helpful to souls, that rather than training Catholics is training heretics. Who knows how much deeper the rot lies with all the outward signs as they are?

He should go to a different parish for all things. If people are ‘stuck up’ at another parish I’m sure this can be dealt with, as it may just be a matter of point of view or conversion rather than articles of faith.

Unless the situation is so bad he’s going to be prevented by legal squabbles if he can go to the parish that is most faithful that is where he should go. And if he would be – well, such a shameful mess as that is hard to deal with isn’t it?

 

[FrDavid96]

My intent was to make a decision once I was baptized in April. I was going to attend Mass at the parish when required to (for ceremonies that I participate in), but possibly attend Mass at another parish when I had the option.

Thank you for your help Father David. I will do the right thing and contact my home parish tomorrow. If my fears of having to start over become a reality, I will do so willingly. But I will do the right thing.

Contact the pastor. Don’t just contact “the parish”. Speak to him in person. Don’t let someone refer you to the RCIA director.

Another thing to consider here is that the pastor needs to be aware of the fact that a potential Catholic (in your case, not just that, but an Elect), is uncomfortable coming to the parish for RCIA. The pastor needs to know this. He can’t fix the problem if he doesn’t know something’s broken. Give him that chance.

 

[FrDavid96]

Frankly, while I know territoriality is still in vogue in some circles, proper catechesis trumps this 100%. …

Canon law defines a parish as a given territory (with some exceptions). Proper catechesis is one which teaches to follow the canon law, not ignore it.

 

[damooster]

Contact the pastor. Don’t just contact “the parish”. Speak to him in person. Don’t let someone refer you to the RCIA director.

Another thing to consider here is that the pastor needs to be aware of the fact that a potential Catholic (in your case, not just that, but an Elect), is uncomfortable coming to the parish for RCIA. The pastor needs to know this. He can’t fix the problem if he doesn’t know something’s broken. Give him that chance.

I will contact him directly and make an appointment. I will let him know of my situation and what happened the last time I attended Mass there.

Thanks again.