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JoeyWarren
Guest
Why?
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JoeyWarren
Guest
:extrahappy:
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***At this point you became no better than her. Trust me. Been there done that. **
**Also you became angry. Getting angry is no better then murder. **
**Also you had the opportunity to do some good but did not. **
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You could have done this;
This would have been a good example of following and doing the "Golden Rule"
Could it be what you thought was the Holy Spirit was nothing but something akin to “Happy Clappy Feeling” brought about the “Emotionalism” that springs forth when you are around other emotianal and enthusiatic people?
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Jesus did say there would be weeds mixed in with the wheat…also you seem to be passing judgement on the old coots…who made you a judger of old coots?*
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Again it could be nothing but emotionalism.*
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Are you expecting Mass to be Happy Clappy? There is no indication that the early church was like this or ever was like this.*
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You obviously must be blind. I visit protestant churches on occasion. The ones that sit in the back leave as quickly as they can so they can beat feet to the restaurant…*
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Yes he did BUT Jesus was referring to false Prophets. Protestants tend to ignore the preceeding verse so here is both verses:*
Well for starters, go back to confession and confess those things I presented above.
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5pintLutheran
Guest
Well, this might seem cold, but do you go to service/mass to feel good, or to worship God? That’s one thing that I stress to charismatic/contemporary “seeker sensitive” church goers. In these churches, the service is centered on the people :dancing: and not on God
, that’s where I have a problem. This is the direction many Protestant denominations are heading, b/c it pulls more people into the church, instead of being doctrinally orthodox or confessional.I know it’s great to attend a different church every now and then, but we should apply “spiritual glasses”
when examining how they look at doctrine as well as the flow of the service.I ask you this:
- How many times is Jesus mentioned during the service?
- Is it a more solemn/reverent/confessional
or more feel good/praise band/contemporary church?:harp: - Does it have overhead projectors? Preacher with head mike?
Altar taken out? Praise band on stage?:extrahappy: :dancing:
doctrinally orthodox these congregations really are.
Dominus Tecum. Amen.
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Annie_B
Guest
THank you for saying that. I suffer panic attacks when I am in public so it is extremely difficult to deal with situations that others may just ignore. It is the lack of understanding from others (such as the “3rd grade” poster) that often make a “simple” situation almost unbearable.
Annie
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water
Guest
I needed to point out that besides you believe in the the Sacrament of the Reconcilation, you also believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist … which many Christians do not.
God bless.
po18guy
Well-known member
The evil one may be deceiving you even here. Consider that, in the first book of Job, satan stood in the presence of God:
Job 1:6-7 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”
This is quite instructive as to the spiritual realm we live in. Earth is the princedom of the evil one. He can be present everywhere, and his is an extremely purpose driven life! This leads to:
Matthew 4:1-3 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
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Luke 4:1-2, 4:13 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry…When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.
Thus, satan is capable of standing in the presence of both the Father and the Son. He may especially be present in some churches, specifically because we are there to draw near to Christ. He would likely place himself directly between you and the Sacrament (Eucharist or Reconciliation), due to his tactical nature.
Consider also that God will allow you to be tested by satan, as in the case of Job. This is not a causal relationship, but one of tolerance. But, it occurs for the perfection of your soul. As in the case of Job, persevere in your faith, and all will be restored in the fulness of time.
Who was it that said: satan’s biggest triumph was when he convinced us he doesn’t exist" (in church)?
Christ’s peace be always with you.
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CatherineJones
Guest
[00]Are you expecting Mass to be Happy Clappy? There is no indication that the early church was like this or ever was like this.
Then again, perhaps, it was discernment of spirits. That’s hard to describe, but it often feels like the negative spirit–angry, sad, heavy, life-less. It makes me feel like I want to get out the door as soon as possible & like it’s difficult to really put my heart into worship. (I see the same thing in the congreagation, and I don’t just think it’s just cultural.)
Personally, I’m convinced there is spiritual oppression over the local church, oppressing the worship. And it doesn’t boot out easily, which leads me to suspect it may be a gift from occultists.
Many protestant churches have intercessors praying during the service, which among other things, keeps such shennanigans at bay.
Then again, perhaps, it was discernment of spirits. That’s hard to describe, but it often feels like the negative spirit–angry, sad, heavy, life-less. It makes me feel like I want to get out the door as soon as possible & like it’s difficult to really put my heart into worship. (I see the same thing in the congreagation, and I don’t just think it’s just cultural.)
Personally, I’m convinced there is spiritual oppression over the local church, oppressing the worship. And it doesn’t boot out easily, which leads me to suspect it may be a gift from occultists.
Many protestant churches have intercessors praying during the service, which among other things, keeps such shennanigans at bay.
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Carolinagirl411
Guest
When I was a protestant I always felt something was missing from service. Granted they had the happy clappy singing and people would cry and get all weepy during the songs thinking that was the spirit. I’m not saying it wasn’t but given the psychological aspect of the human mind I have reason to doubt. It is very easy to feel all warm and fuzzy with a large group of people and the mindset is often a shared one, doesn’t make it right though. I actually felt it was a big fraud in that it was completely human b/c I know the people that were “feeling the spirit”. They would be all warm and fuzzy in church on sunday then go get completely wasted drunk the next day or sleep around with multiple people, or bad mouth people or criticize what people were wearing after the warm fuzzy songs were over.
Remember, Mother Teresa often commented that she no longer felt the warm and fuzzies for years but that did not mean that God left her. It was a test of faith! So going to mass and not feeling all happy and warm does not mean that there is a lack of the Holy Spirit. God wants to know that we will remain faithful without having to be reinforced all the time with happy feelings. Following Christ is about sacrifice and sometimes suffering.
Today in America the culture is all about instant gratification, being happy all the time, and don’t even get me started on the movement that “God wants you Rich”. Don’t follow that mindset b/c that is not of Christ. When I am at Mass I don’t necessarily feel happy or moved to tears or stick my hands up in the air to sing a song or speak in tongues but I do feel at Peace and I do feel that I am in the right place. I think the desire to be in Christ’s presence is the Holy Spirit working.
Remember, Mother Teresa often commented that she no longer felt the warm and fuzzies for years but that did not mean that God left her. It was a test of faith! So going to mass and not feeling all happy and warm does not mean that there is a lack of the Holy Spirit. God wants to know that we will remain faithful without having to be reinforced all the time with happy feelings. Following Christ is about sacrifice and sometimes suffering.
Today in America the culture is all about instant gratification, being happy all the time, and don’t even get me started on the movement that “God wants you Rich”. Don’t follow that mindset b/c that is not of Christ. When I am at Mass I don’t necessarily feel happy or moved to tears or stick my hands up in the air to sing a song or speak in tongues but I do feel at Peace and I do feel that I am in the right place. I think the desire to be in Christ’s presence is the Holy Spirit working.
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t68ware
Guest
Wow! what a loving comment! I mean, really, your sympathy is astounding! I have been to many Masses and I am Protestant, and I have experienced rudeness in both churches, BUT, I can say I am more disappointed with the Catholics in the parish I frequent. They are for the most part cold when it comes to greeting visitors, they can’t get out of church fast enough when Mass is over and it is sometimes an empty feeling. This is in my parish so don’t think I am saying this goes on in all parishes for I am sure there are some great loving parishes. I love the Catholic church but at times, I wish they were more loving.
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Annie_B
Guest
You know, there seems to be an idea here with Catholics that it is wrong somehow to feel good at church…Why not feel happy and friendly at church? It seems to me that happiness and joy should be overflowing at church! At Mass I can tell you I see more somber faced, seemingly unhappy people who are there just to fulfill an obligation and then get out as fast as they can. In contrast, the protestant churches I have been to seem to have a much higher percentage of really happy people who WANT to be there, not because they are required to, but because they chose to.
Annie
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guanophore
Guest
I don’t think so. I mean, I agree we need to use reason, but that is not the only avenue through which we apprehend Truth. Experiencing the HS has only to do with Truth. However, you are right that “feeling” one is doing so and actually doing so can be two different things. We can pump ourselves up into thinking we have had a HS experience.
No, feelings are not always wrong, and sensing things is not divination. You have shown by the use of these words that HS and Truth go together.
The Catholic Church teaches that the HS does use Protestant communities, and that some truth is found wherever He is at work.
Well, I don’t agree with your conclusion, but I do agree that people can feel the HS, and it is not divination.
Indeed!
The assertion is also contrary to official Catholic doctrine, so you are in good company with the Holy Father and the Magesterium. I will kindly disagree with all y’all so we can have a good ‘catholic’ unity in our agreement that the HS is at work.
I agree with you. I sojoured in Protestant communities for a bout 20 years, and grew a lot spiritually. But for me, now that I have returned to the fullness of truth, it would be wrong for me, and a sign that the devil had somehow decieved me.I firmly believe that if you find God there, stick with Him and He will lead you where you need to be.
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steve_b
Guest
- what was it that was drawing you back?
- why did you leave?
:console:
I can only suggest, give people slack. You may need it someday yourself
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justinthemartyr
Guest
yes, and the main fruits, are the doctrines of the apostles, handed down through every century from Christ forward.
it is not the mere human failings you will find at any church where humans are, it is the overly abundant love and grace that has been poured out in every century to the poorest of the poor, the widows etc…
The protestant church was not around for 1500 years of this service to the worlds neediest people. The catholic church was, and still is.
It sounds as if you are looking for good “feelings” instead of facts.
it is not the mere human failings you will find at any church where humans are, it is the overly abundant love and grace that has been poured out in every century to the poorest of the poor, the widows etc…
The protestant church was not around for 1500 years of this service to the worlds neediest people. The catholic church was, and still is.
It sounds as if you are looking for good “feelings” instead of facts.
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East_and_West
Guest
I think the fact that you ran into this woman is a good thing. You should expect to see this in the true Church. The Church is a hospital for sinners. Christ came to save sinners, not the righteous. Its the sick who need a doctor, not the healthy. I once attended a Protestant Church like you where everyone was “lovey dovey” and “happy”. I realized it was fake. There is something real and earthy about the Catholic Church. God meets man, right where he is.
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slyboots
Guest
Goodness.
In all communities there will be crabby people. All communities have them. Protestants are no better at being the people God wants us to be than are Catholics.
I was 42 years old when I converted. I did not do so because Catholics made me feel wanted or because there were great programs or that I liked the priest. I did so because the Catholic Church has the fullness of the gospels. I converted because it was the Church that Christ handed to St Peter to guide and nourish. I became a Catholic because as St Peter said in John 6:69 Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.
The Catholic Church is Christ’s Church. To whom else would you go?
In all communities there will be crabby people. All communities have them. Protestants are no better at being the people God wants us to be than are Catholics.
I was 42 years old when I converted. I did not do so because Catholics made me feel wanted or because there were great programs or that I liked the priest. I did so because the Catholic Church has the fullness of the gospels. I converted because it was the Church that Christ handed to St Peter to guide and nourish. I became a Catholic because as St Peter said in John 6:69 Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.
The Catholic Church is Christ’s Church. To whom else would you go?
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Michael96
Guest
The talk of feelings and truth is an interesting one. The first part of this posted I posted ont the chaismatic thread, but it seems aposite here as well:
I tend to start each prayer time now “putting myself in the presence of God”. I don’t imagine God is any more or less there just because of my awareness of his presence, but I find it helps my prayer time to “feel” his presence, and to spend some silent time simply being aware that I am with God (and inviting God to consciously or subconsciously fill me with his Spirit and with any guidance I need).
Something I picked up from a Jesuit is to visualise Christ’s presence during the day (e.g. in meetings at work). In this way it helps me be very aware of Christ’s presence during the day and it reminds me of who I am trying to be like. Again I would say that it does help to “feel” Christ’s presence.
I don’t think this is necessary and I don’t think it’s the type of approach that suits everyone, but it has helped me. I think it’s different strokes for different folks; some prefer set prayers that have stood the test of time and others, like me, prefer a more meditative approach and one that does involve being aware of the presence of God, or “feeling” the presence of God.
What I don’t understand are those who think feeling the presence of God or the presence of the Spirit is somehow incompatable with reason. My profession is as a scientist so I’m very comfortable with “reasoned” arguements (and can usually spot pretty qiuckly what is a properly reasoned arguement and what is debating tactics, and both Catholic and Protestant apologists will use both, and both will try to disguise sophism as reason).
For those who think the “feeling” the presence of God is somehow “not Catholic” I would like some clarity. Do you really believe that people can’t feel the presence of God or the Spirit (and that feeling the repsence will affect our “feelings”)? If so what is the scriptual or reasoned basis for people being unable to feel/detect the presence of God? Or is it more a worry that people may think they feel the presence of God when actually they’re just caught up in a particular atmosphere? If it’s the latter do you think it’s impossible for for a congregation together to feel the presence of God or just unlikely?
I tend to start each prayer time now “putting myself in the presence of God”. I don’t imagine God is any more or less there just because of my awareness of his presence, but I find it helps my prayer time to “feel” his presence, and to spend some silent time simply being aware that I am with God (and inviting God to consciously or subconsciously fill me with his Spirit and with any guidance I need).
Something I picked up from a Jesuit is to visualise Christ’s presence during the day (e.g. in meetings at work). In this way it helps me be very aware of Christ’s presence during the day and it reminds me of who I am trying to be like. Again I would say that it does help to “feel” Christ’s presence.
I don’t think this is necessary and I don’t think it’s the type of approach that suits everyone, but it has helped me. I think it’s different strokes for different folks; some prefer set prayers that have stood the test of time and others, like me, prefer a more meditative approach and one that does involve being aware of the presence of God, or “feeling” the presence of God.
What I don’t understand are those who think feeling the presence of God or the presence of the Spirit is somehow incompatable with reason. My profession is as a scientist so I’m very comfortable with “reasoned” arguements (and can usually spot pretty qiuckly what is a properly reasoned arguement and what is debating tactics, and both Catholic and Protestant apologists will use both, and both will try to disguise sophism as reason).
For those who think the “feeling” the presence of God is somehow “not Catholic” I would like some clarity. Do you really believe that people can’t feel the presence of God or the Spirit (and that feeling the repsence will affect our “feelings”)? If so what is the scriptual or reasoned basis for people being unable to feel/detect the presence of God? Or is it more a worry that people may think they feel the presence of God when actually they’re just caught up in a particular atmosphere? If it’s the latter do you think it’s impossible for for a congregation together to feel the presence of God or just unlikely?
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Kay_Cee
Guest
You know, you spent a lot of time in the confessional getting right with God.
The moment you were done, the first thing He showed you was someone who needed a lot of prayer.
That kind of makes sense, don’t you think?
The moment you were done, the first thing He showed you was someone who needed a lot of prayer.
That kind of makes sense, don’t you think?
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BlueRubies
Guest
1ke, you know that Catholics are out there doing those same things correct?
Poster, I have a little more open view - If you feel more called to another church, maybe you have to follow your heart for now. I feel that it’s your relationship with God that he will judge you on - after all, as it’s been said we are all sinners and God says you will get to Heaven through faith in Him - not by following rule A or rule B. You should do whatever you need to get closer to God. I believe things are not all black and white. Speak to your priest about this. Speak to the pastor even from the other church if you want - I am sure they both would have good advice. Maybe someday you will return to the chuch if that’s what God wants.
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BlueRubies
Guest
Okay, I can’t resist - how do you know that those “other” christians are saints? How do you know the ones you call saints are saints? We don’t know anything - you can’t say so and so is while others absolutely can not be.
I do agree with you though about not giving up if she feels being int he Catholic church is best for her. If it is not, maybe it will be down the road. Maybe she needs to experience other parishes too.
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Originally Posted by 1ke
I disagree. I have never felt unwelcome in a Catholic Church. I have been to many, many different parishes because I traveled extensively with work. I also lived in a major city and attended dozens of parishes in that city. Now I live in a rural, small community. I’ve traveled all over the world, and have always been welcomed.
1ke, just because YOU have felt welcome does not mean all are - try being a minority going to a catholic church. It’s like a different world.
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