I really am trying to Return to Catholicism BUT!

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mercygate said:
Just thought this should be posted again. In bold type.
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well, correct me if I am wrong, but maybe this was kind of a little towards me - maybe hinting I let my 3 year old do whatever he wants? Well, If it is, I just wanted to say that actually I take my son to the daily mass too so we can work on being quiet too. When we are at church and he is bad, we do have to leave - I mean there is no alternative because no one wants a nursery. But the problem is that you can’t control them sometimes and while I wish he would be quiet and we work on it, it usually never turns out that way. He is always loud in church. I had even stopped attending chuch for a while because I knew I would just have to leave - I thought what is the point. Some kids just are loud anyway, and it’s not for my lack of trying that he is still not quiet in chuch 😉 . This is why I think some should give a little leniency when it comes to loud children - would they rather we stay home than they are inconvenienced for 2 minutes of my son saying something?
 
Isolating children of any age from the general worship community is a bad idea. It is unnatural. Of course at some point they will need to understand that they cannot run wild, but our adult tolerance level is also pretty much undone by the restrained environment we have accepted in the temple, it should not be so confining.

Why do children “make noise”? Often it is because of the pews, they are like drums and their hard surfaces reflect sound of their higher pitched voices. People are crammed into ranks and cannot easily make a change that will make it easier on them or the children.

Small chidren will play with almost anything and make noise, but that is perfectly natural. In a proper setting I believe whole families can worship even with the children at that tender age.

I don’t blame the children at all, I blame the whole concept of worshipping in that Protestant invention, the pew.
 
Redsox said:
Im in a dilema .After months of attending Protestant service I returned and went to confession .I felt so graet I could’nt help but smile and feel myself praising the lord.Then as I stepped out of the confessional an older woman snarled at me and said I took to long in the confession and I made her late for her appointmaent with her hairdresser .It was then I became angry and the following day returned to the Protestant Church ,where I felt the Holy Spirit .It’s the attitude of these old “coots” that profess to be Catholics but have no sympathy for fellow sinners please tell me me what to do. When I leave Sunday Service I feel great when I leave Mass I dont .The people at Mass can’t wait to get out of there me I’m not pleased with such un christian acts .Sorry but you must convince me otherwise …Did not Jesus say " By their fruits you shall know them"…Peace
“So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
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(Disclaimer: I am not Roman Catholic so do not take anything I say as being representative of Catholic dogma).

I truly do understand how you feel; I’ve been “burned” by people in other religions, as well as my own. But I had to learn over the course of my life that if I let what other people in my religion do annoy me and drive me away from my faith (Judaism), I’d be a very miserable person!

You are going to find good and bad in ALL religions, in ALL jobs, in ALL neighborhoods. Its a fact of life we have to get used to.

Keep your eyes on GOD, not on His followers! 🙂

In the meantime, check out an African-American spiritual called, “Scandalize My Name”. Its about religious hypocrisy from a black Protestant POV. You’ll see this is a problem in ALL faiths.

Check this version out: youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZktluC0Mg

And while you’re at it, check out this very beautiful rendition of Ave Maria (perhaps the most breathtaking thing to ever come out of the Catholic religion, IMO)

youtube.com/watch?v=jMpUxtAtAPw&feature=related
 
I have nothing to say concerning this thread…

But it is obvious that the OP has excellent judgement in his choice of World Champion baseball teams.

Go Sox.

(fellow Sox fan from the boonies of Vermont)
 
HashemEchad said:
(Disclaimer: I am not Roman Catholic so do not take anything I say as being representative of Catholic dogma).

I truly do understand how you feel; I’ve been “burned” by people in other religions, as well as my own. But I had to learn over the course of my life that if I let what other people in my religion do annoy me and drive me away from my faith (Judaism), I’d be a very miserable person!

You are going to find good and bad in ALL religions, in ALL jobs, in ALL neighborhoods. Its a fact of life we have to get used to.

Keep your eyes on GOD, not on His followers! 🙂

In the meantime, check out an African-American spiritual called, “Scandalize My Name”. Its about religious hypocrisy from a black Protestant POV. You’ll see this is a problem in ALL faiths.

Check this version out: youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZktluC0Mg

And while you’re at it, check out this very beautiful rendition of Ave Maria (perhaps the most breathtaking thing to ever come out of the Catholic religion, IMO)

youtube.com/watch?v=jMpUxtAtAPw&feature=related
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mozart-250 said:
I have nothing to say concerning this thread…

But it is obvious that the OP has excellent judgement in his choice of World Champion baseball teams.

Go Sox.

(fellow Sox fan from the boonies of Vermont)
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Pope Benedict XVI is a Mozart man. He maintains that you cannot remove a single note from Mozart without ruining it.

It is a seamless garment, much as worn by Christ. You have much more in common that you know!

Christ’s peace.
 
Pinkyyy said:
well, correct me if I am wrong, but maybe this was kind of a little towards me - maybe hinting I let my 3 year old do whatever he wants? Well, If it is, I just wanted to say that actually I take my son to the daily mass too so we can work on being quiet too. When we are at church and he is bad, we do have to leave - I mean there is no alternative because no one wants a nursery. But the problem is that you can’t control them sometimes and while I wish he would be quiet and we work on it, it usually never turns out that way. He is always loud in church. I had even stopped attending chuch for a while because I knew I would just have to leave - I thought what is the point. Some kids just are loud anyway, and it’s not for my lack of trying that he is still not quiet in chuch 😉 . This is why I think some should give a little leniency when it comes to loud children - would they rather we stay home than they are inconvenienced for 2 minutes of my son saying something?
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I wasn’t pointing at anybody. All I wanted to emphasize is that when you have toddlers, the way they learn is to be expected to do what they need to do. Parents with toddlers do not get to “enjoy” the Mass. They wrangle. They shush. They haul 'em back into the pew. The kids who GO to church and are walked out the back when the fussing becomes too much eventualy get it. The message is: this is more important than your little toddler agenda and you are not going to be excused. Later they can whine that you “shoved it down their throat.” That’s ok.
 
Pinkyyy said:
well, correct me if I am wrong, but maybe this was kind of a little towards me - maybe hinting I let my 3 year old do whatever he wants? Well, If it is, I just wanted to say that actually I take my son to the daily mass too so we can work on being quiet too. When we are at church and he is bad, we do have to leave - I mean there is no alternative because no one wants a nursery. But the problem is that you can’t control them sometimes and while I wish he would be quiet and we work on it, it usually never turns out that way. He is always loud in church. I had even stopped attending chuch for a while because I knew I would just have to leave - I thought what is the point. Some kids just are loud anyway, and it’s not for my lack of trying that he is still not quiet in chuch 😉 . This is why I think some should give a little leniency when it comes to loud children - would they rather we stay home than they are inconvenienced for 2 minutes of my son saying something?
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Do you also “play Church” at home on a regular basis, so that he learns the responses, and knows what to expect when it comes to the real thing? This works really well if you play Church at the same time of day that Mass is at on Sundays.

Another suggestion I read somewhere, that I thought was absolutely brilliant, was to schedule the younger kids’ nap-time for the time of Sunday Mass that you like to go to. That way, they becomes used to being quiet at that time of the day.
 
Old coots who complain about your making them miss their hair appointments and ushers who try to reseat everybody are EXCELLENT reasons before God to avoid the Church and the Sacraments, aren’t they?
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
conquer your pride.
of course these things keep happening over and over again—why? because people are sinners and NO ONE SWALLOWS THEIR PRIDE AND SAYS SOMETHING TO THESE RUDE PEOPLE! No need to start an argument–in fact use the ‘rules of argument’(as espoused by many marriage counsellors) and frame the statement to yourself so they do not get defensive. Next time someone is rude simply say “well that is rude behavior and it hurts my feelings!” Then walk away. It is up to them to square it with you and God. If no one tells these people they are being rude when they are being rude they think it is acceptable! But it takes humility on your part to admit that someone’s rudeness hurt your feelings.
And as far as Catholics being ruder than Protestants—its a fairytale! In my experience I find many Catholic parishes to be cold and unfriendly but not outright rude, however my experience with Protestants (34 yrs) is that they are in your face and in your business rude–when they are rude. But neither Catholics or Protestants can be stereotyped across the board as ruder than any other groups of people. People are rude! Sometimes. Sometimes I am rude. It makes me feel bad and I try to apologize.
Now as far as thickening that skin of yours a tad—religion should not be based on emotions alone. To be CHRISTIAN is to suffer persecution from outside AND INSIDE! I agree with the other poster who said if you are not having problems then the Devil already has you!
I find the episode ironic. She obviously NEEDED confession more than you. I would have laughed at it if it had happened to me—but I do have a weird sense of humor. I would have laughed and asked her to please forgive me and blocked her way in until she did. Otherwise I might have to go back in myself and confess to uncharitable thoughts and allowing someone to stumble me into grieving Holy Spirit and stealing my Joy.
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I agree with you, I wouldn’t say that in general Catholics are ruder than Protestants or the other way round : you can find rude people in both groups, I’m a Protestant and I’ve come across some very rude Protestants too !!! ( one told me off for not putting the hymn book correctly in its place, another one because I was not sitting “correctly”, this in two different churches … if I had not been a Protestant myself maybe I would have thought : waow, how rude they are !!! --for example if I had been a Catholic and if these had been my first two experiences with Protestants …😃 )
I’ve come across rude Catholics too, but it doesn’t make me “generalize” about them …( I know many Catholics who are not “rude”…)
 
Huguenot said:
I’m a Protestant and I’ve come across some very rude Protestants too !!!

I’ve come across rude Catholics too, but it doesn’t make me “generalize” about them …
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I have come across rude Orthodox too. It takes all kinds, and they are all our brothers and sisters, deserving our prayers.

If we were perfect Jesus could have been spared the nails.
 
I feel for you, OP. I "reverted’ 15 years ago and I really believed that no one in the Catholic Church could care less if I came back, the way most of them acted. But I came back anyway, because I had given Jesus my heart and I needed to obey Him. I also agree with a previous poster that Evangelicals can appear nice on the surface but underneath many of them are not. I still remember getting blasted in front of a group of people by an arrogant Inter Varsity Christian Fellowship girl who decided I didn’t read the Bible enough. (I’d only been reading it daily for months, but I wasn’t familiar with the word “Leviathan”.) I enjoy thinking now how horrified she must have been if she found out I had reverted and joined the “evil” Catholic Church. I guess what I found out is, rude people or no rude people, good feelings or no good feelings, it’s about the Lord, and following Him. And if he says go back to the Catholic Church, that’s what you do.
 
I tried coming back too. But I couldn’t. The mass was great, and everything about the church was perfect. I loved going to church for those. But the fact people at church aren’t perfect or even TRYING to be perfected in Christ, and that they just don’t seem to really live the gospel and apply it in their lives with sincerety was what I have problems with. It seems that for many people, they attend church to fill their spiritual tank for the weekend, then back their [old] way lives over again. It’s really sad because I had so much faith in this church until I realized that I could not see myself progressing toward bringing myself closer to God with people who claim to be righteous and are Christlike. I feel like it’s not even helping themselves or others to spiritually grow but only to fuel their ego thinking that they are righteous.
 
charlitstar said:
I tried coming back too. But I couldn’t. The mass was great, and everything about the church was perfect. I loved going to church for those. But the fact people at church aren’t perfect or even TRYING to be perfected in Christ, and that they just don’t seem to really live the gospel and apply it in their lives with sincerety was what I have problems with. It seems that for many people, they attend church to fill their spiritual tank for the weekend, then back their [old] way lives over again. It’s really sad because I had so much faith in this church until I realized that I could not see myself progressing toward bringing myself closer to God with people who claim to be righteous and are Christlike. I feel like it’s not even helping themselves or others to spiritually grow but only to fuel their ego thinking that they are righteous.
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You didn’t like Christ, either? He is the ONLY reason to attend. I wonder…
 
Is it the rudeness of others?

Is it others’ lack of zeal in their Catholic faith?

Is it their aloofness, selfishness, lack of caring, all of the above?

Is it this, is it that that “causes” one to have difficulty with remaining or returning?

Satan is his most vicious when he sees a soul trying to be one with the Church. He will put up every obstacle, even in the guise of rudeness, lack of zeal, aloofness, selfishness, lack of caring, etc., to keep us from perfect union with Christ.

What should we do? First, be joyful that God is allowing us to be strengthened by being put to the test. Most important, however, is to look upon all those others with true love and really BELIEVE you are looking at Christ himself (a helpful hint: look INTO their eyes, not at them).

Love and peace.
 
Hesychios said:
I have come across rude Orthodox too. It takes all kinds, and they are all our brothers and sisters, deserving our prayers.

If we were perfect Jesus could have been spared the nails.
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I agree with you and I especially like your last sentence !
 
Redsox said:
Im in a dilema .After months of attending Protestant service I returned and went to confession .I felt so graet I could’nt help but smile and feel myself praising the lord.Then as I stepped out of the confessional an older woman snarled at me and said I took to long in the confession and I made her late for her appointmaent with her hairdresser .It was then I became angry and the following day returned to the Protestant Church ,where I felt the Holy Spirit .It’s the attitude of these old “coots” that profess to be Catholics but have no sympathy for fellow sinners please tell me me what to do. When I leave Sunday Service I feel great when I leave Mass I dont .The people at Mass can’t wait to get out of there me I’m not pleased with such un christian acts .Sorry but you must convince me otherwise …Did not Jesus say " By their fruits you shall know them"…Peace
“So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
Click to expand...
It sounds like a satanic attack to me. The devil knew your primary weakness at that time was coming back into the Church and he used the weakness of another to push you away again. It could also have been a test that God gave you to see how serious you were about returning to His Church. Personally, I have had many such tests and they are trying. But Mass isn’t about feeling good personally; it is about Christ present to us. My spiritual director set me straight on that last week. After asking me to close my eyes and picture the person I absolutely loathe and despise in my own personal life, and having done that, he then said to me, “There. How you relate to that person is the truth on how much you really love God.” It was not a nice revelation about myself.
 
peary said:
It sounds like a satanic attack to me. The devil knew your primary weakness at that time was coming back into the Church and he used the weakness of another to push you away again. It could also have been a test that God gave you to see how serious you were about returning to His Church. Personally, I have had many such tests and they are trying. But Mass isn’t about feeling good personally; it is about Christ present to us. My spiritual director set me straight on that last week. After asking me to close my eyes and picture the person I absolutely loathe and despise in my own personal life, and having done that, he then said to me, “There. How you relate to that person is the truth on how much you really love God.” It was not a nice revelation about myself.
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Not to pick on you Peary… but I really do tire of some catholics saying ‘it is the Devil that done did it’ when it comes to feeling more at home in a protestant church.😦
 
peary said:
It sounds like a satanic attack to me. The devil knew your primary weakness at that time was coming back into the Church and he used the weakness of another to push you away again. It could also have been a test that God gave you to see how serious you were about returning to His Church. Personally, I have had many such tests and they are trying. But Mass isn’t about feeling good personally; it is about Christ present to us. My spiritual director set me straight on that last week. After asking me to close my eyes and picture the person I absolutely loathe and despise in my own personal life, and having done that, he then said to me, “There. How you relate to that person is the truth on how much you really love God.” It was not a nice revelation about myself.
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Yes, I’ve been given that exercise too, in Spiritual Direction. But it’s absolutely true, as St. James says - if you can’t love the brother or sister that you can see, then you cannot love God whom you cannot see.
 
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