I respectfully ask evangelical, protestant and sola scriptura proponents...

[joe370]

I respectfully ask evangelical, protestant and sola scriptura proponents:

By whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost? Please leave the catholic church out of the discussion unless of course you can prove that the catholic church is not the church founded by Jesus Christ circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost!

Thanks…

 

[105lynne]

Anyone?..Bueller?..

 

[JHow]

Perhaps one might point to Matthew 18:20 and imply that the population necessary to start a church is “two or three”?

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Bran_Stark]

By whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost?

Um we don’t think our denominations were founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost. That would be madness. But denominations aren’t what Protestants think of when they think of the Church, no more than Catholics think of different dioceses when they think of the Church.

 

[chief714]

Got my popcorn popped…
Front row seats with a coke & smile

I’ve been wondering this one myself…

 

[MontChevalier]

Oh this is gonna be good. I need to see a reply to this.

-MontChevalier

 

[truthsave]

I am not in a deep religion study but I guess, and of course I can be wrong, they start a church from a personal jugment on mistakes, of course mistakes for who judges, made by humans belonging to a certain religion.
It is a common thing in human behaviour. If I judge a man is entering my proprety to be a criminal he, in my eyes, loose is human right, and with the supposed legitimate right of defence he can attack the intruder; or something like that.

I think not all that started a church started it to make it “against” Jesus Christ teaching, but they have tried to go their own way using as justification a path pretented to be closer to the original teaching.

In think in any kind of Churches you find human mistakes. There are bigger mistakes then others…

 

[AmateurPianist]

call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost?

Of course I don’t claim that the assembly with which I fellowship is the unique and only church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost so although I am evangelical thus thread does not apply to me.

 

[amber_lux]

Please leave the catholic church out of the discussion unless of course you can prove that the catholic church is not the church founded by Jesus Christ circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on

Ooh, can I use the 1054 date, or the 688 date, or the 1520 date? Or perhaps you’d prefer the 310 date. All of which have been argued by catholic theologians for the date of the founding of the Holy Roman, Catholic, And Apostolic, Church of Christ. Which one to use, depends upon which version of history one accepts.

You can accept the AD 33 date, on the same grounds that the church of Christ (any flavour that you so desire) uses the AD 33 date as its founding. And without as much appreciation of historical accuracy and truth.

by whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost?

What you are forgetting is that the majority of schisms were the result of people being thrown out without any discussion of the issues. As oft as not, the theological differences came later. Sometimes much later. When theology was the issue, the old guard was thrown out as oft as the young turks were.

Amber

 

[joe370]

amber_lux;8427653]Ooh, can I use the 1054 date, or the 688 date, or the 1520 date? Or perhaps you’d prefer the 310 date. All of which have been argued by catholic theologians for the date of the founding of the Holy Roman, Catholic, And Apostolic, Church of Christ. Which one to use, depends upon which version of history one accepts.

I beg to differ: Catholic theologians argue that the CC was founded by Jesus in the 1st century. If you believe the CC was founded by someone else other than Jesus Christ, be it the 11th century or the 7th century or the 4th century, please provide verifiable and historical proof of the man, or men, that founded the CC and when?

You can accept the AD 33 date, on the same grounds that the church of Christ (any flavour that you so desire) uses the AD 33 date as its founding. And without as much appreciation of historical accuracy and truth.

No protestant churches existed until the 16th century. If I am wrong please prove it. As you can see, the few non-catholics that have posted agree with me.

What you are forgetting is that the majority of schisms were the result of people being thrown out without any discussion of the issues. As oft as not, the theological differences came later. Sometimes much later. When theology was the issue, the old guard was thrown out as oft as the young turks were.

Catholics in the early church, wrongfully thrown out of the CC, leading to schisms? Examples???

Amber, by whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost? Please leave the catholic church out of the discussion unless of course you can prove that the catholic church is not the church founded by Jesus Christ circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost!

Thanks…

 

[joe370]

Of course I don’t claim that the assembly with which I fellowship is the unique and only church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost so although I am evangelical thus thread does not apply to me.

 

[joe370]

I am not in a deep religion study but I guess, and of course I can be wrong, they start a church from a personal jugment on mistakes, of course mistakes for who judges, made by humans belonging to a certain religion.
It is a common thing in human behaviour. If I judge a man is entering my proprety to be a criminal he, in my eyes, loose is human right, and with the supposed legitimate right of defence he can attack the intruder; or something like that.

I think not all that started a church started it to make it “against” Jesus Christ teaching, but they have tried to go their own way using as justification a path pretented to be closer to the original teaching.

In think in any kind of Churches you find human mistakes. There are bigger mistakes then others…

 

[liturgyluver]

I respectfully ask evangelical, protestant and sola scriptura proponents:

By whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost? Please leave the catholic church out of the discussion unless of course you can prove that the catholic church is not the church founded by Jesus Christ circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost!

Thanks…

I am not a breakaway proponent, but I can see that if you feel that the established church had become corrupt or had developed in a way that was contrary to its original creeds or values then you might feel that the established church had lost its authority in some way. This issue affects all christian churches, not just the catholic church.

 

[joe370]

Bran Stark;8427243]Um we don’t think our denominations were founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost. That would be madness.

Why?

But denominations aren’t what Protestants think of when they think of the Church

Just a church as opposed to a denomination? OK…

…no more than Catholics think of different dioceses when they think of the Church.

I’m not making the connection between the different dioceses of the CC and the different protestant churches? There is one CC with many dioceses. There are many protestant churches - period.

 

[joe370]

Perhaps one might point to Matthew 18:20 and imply that the population necessary to start a church is “two or three”?

True. Let’s say I, along with 2 other sola scriptura advocates start a church. My question for non-catholics is:

By whose authority do I have the right to start my church and call my new church either the church founded by Jesus Christ or the church reformed by the 3 of us,** via the authority of Jesus?** Or, (question directed at non-catholics) - does it even matter if a person belongs to the church to which the apostles belonged?

 

[joe370]

I am not a breakaway proponent, but I can see that if you feel that the established church had become corrupt or had developed in a way that was contrary to its original creeds or values then you might feel that the established church had lost its authority in some way. This issue affects all christian churches, not just the catholic church.

That’s so true and the very reason why I asked the following:

If someone belonging to Jesus’ established, at any point in history, feels that Jesus’ established church had/has become corrupt or had/has developed in a way that was contrary to its original creeds or values then by whose authority does that someone, have the right to start a new church and call his/her established church the church either founded by Jesus or the church reformed by him/her via the authority of Jesus?

 

[liturgyluver]

I’m not making the connection between the different dioceses of the CC and the different protestant churches? There is one CC with many dioceses. There are many protestant churches - period.

I think this is referring to the difference between “catholic” and “Catholic” (small C, large C)

Catholic is a shortened form for the Roman Catholic Church, but the term catholic means universal and many denominations (mainly the traditional ones) use it to refer more broadly to the Christian Church. So Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, believe their churches are catholic (small c). Most Catholics would not agree with that assertion, but that is the way that these congregations see it.

 

[Calgar]

I respectfully ask evangelical, protestant and sola scriptura proponents:

By whose authority does any one person, (such as myself) - have the right to start a church and call his/her established church the church founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost? Please leave the catholic church out of the discussion unless of course you can prove that the catholic church is not the church founded by Jesus Christ circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost!

Thanks…

I didn’t know you needed authority or a right.

When the Soviet Union fell in the early ninties you had a lot of people who had never heard, or cared, about Christ.

The tiny groups of Christians who had been secretly meeting for years suddenly had a bit of freedom to express their love for Christ and have open (well, more open) meetings. Many of these groups grew in size and soon were able to rent buildings and/or buy land to build on. Now there are thriving Christian communities teaching about and spreading Chritianity.

Are you saying that you believe this is wrong?

 

[joe370]

Calgar;8427892]I didn’t know you needed authority or a right.

When the Soviet Union fell in the early ninties you had a lot of people who had never heard, or cared, about Christ.

Ok…

The tiny groups of Christians who had been secretly meeting for years suddenly had a bit of freedom to express their love for Christ and have open (well, more open) meetings. Many of these groups grew in size and soon were able to rent buildings and/or buy land to build on. Now there are thriving Christian communities teaching about and spreading Chritianity.

That’s awesome.

Are you saying that you believe this is wrong?

No need to friend. I am merely asking:

By whose authority do I, or anyone else, have the right to start a church and call my church either the church founded by Jesus Christ or the church reformed by me via the authority of Jesus?

 

[joe370]

I think this is referring to the difference between “catholic” and “Catholic” (small C, large C)

Catholic is a shortened form for the Roman Catholic Church, but the term catholic means universal and many denominations (mainly the traditional ones) use it to refer more broadly to the Christian Church. So Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, believe their churches are catholic (small c). Most Catholics would not agree with that assertion, but that is the way that these congregations see it.

The many protestant churches comprising the one (small c) - catholic church? OK…