I strongly suggest that you prove purgatory before preaching it.

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whatevergirl said:
thanks mike–I understand…maybe I just fear purgatory.😊 Possibly why I ask so many questions about it.
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Fear of the Lord is a great Virtue. We should ALL fear Purgatory as from the readings I have done on it tells me it is no cake walk by any stretch of the imagination.
 
whatevergirl said:
thanks mike–I understand…maybe I just fear purgatory.😊 Possibly why I ask so many questions about it.
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Try and think of it as what it really is - God’s final mercy for us unworthy sinners. It is God fulfilling his promise to those who are saved, no matter how many opportunities they wasted here on earth.
 
childofmary1143 said:
Fear of the Lord is a great Virtue. We should ALL fear Purgatory as from the readings I have done on it tells me it is no cake walk by any stretch of the imagination.
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I wonder why it has to be so painful. I have found learning about purgatory a little disheartening lately.😦 I realize the need for it, and as a Catholic, have always believed in it–but, I’m still wrestling with Jesus’ death on the cross…and this somehow shadowing ‘earning’ our way to Heaven. If I’m good enough…if I do enough things to follow God…etc…I will ‘earn’ salvation.

I was talking to my motherinlaw today about this very topic, and she explained it that we need to be as white as snow, for entering Heaven. This is a cleansing process, not an extension of forgiving sins. So–if no one is perfect…which no one is…except for Christ, of course–then we all can expect to see purgatory?
 
VociMike said:
Try and think of it as what it really is - God’s final mercy for us unworthy sinners. It is God fulfilling his promise to those who are saved, no matter how many opportunities they wasted here on earth.
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…for those who die with unrepented mortal sins, or venial? what does dying in a state of grace mean?
 
whatevergirl said:
I wonder why it has to be so painful. I have found learning about purgatory a little disheartening lately.😦 I realize the need for it, and as a Catholic, have always believed in it–but, I’m still wrestling with Jesus’ death on the cross…and this somehow shadowing ‘earning’ our way to Heaven. If I’m good enough…if I do enough things to follow God…etc…I will ‘earn’ salvation.

I was talking to my motherinlaw today about this very topic, and she explained it that we need to be as white as snow, for entering Heaven. This is a cleansing process, not an extension of forgiving sins. So–if no one is perfect…which no one is…except for Christ, of course–then we all can expect to see purgatory?
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I seem to recall that in the apparitions of Fatima, that Lucia had asked if a friend of hers was in Heaven and Our Lady replied that she would be in Purgatory till the END OF TIME.:eek:
 
childofmary1143 said:
Possibly purgatory or Heaven.
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I pray that my family, friends, myself…that purgatory will not last long…I pray for all poor souls in purgatory, as well. But, I guess we will be poor souls there too someday, matthew.:o I will say that God cleansing me…the after-glow of this cleansing will most likely be what we would have looked like had the Garden of Eden been preserved.
 
whatevergirl said:
I pray that my family, friends, myself…that purgatory will not last long…I pray for all poor souls in purgatory, as well. But, I guess we will be poor souls there too someday, matthew.:o I will say that God cleansing me…the after-glow of this cleansing will most likely be what we would have looked like had the Garden of Eden been preserved.
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I have read somewhere that if you have a Mass said for someone who is alive is of more benefit then after they have died. Something to think about.
 
water said:
At some point, you need to let some folks see Purgatory themselves, then they** believe**. 😉
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Mat 6:5-7
(5) And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
(6) But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret, and thy father who seeth in secret will repay thee.
(7) And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their **much speaking **they may be heard.
 
Everytime I hear that passage it makes me not want to make a big scene of saying the blessing at a restaurant.
 
whatevergirl said:
I wonder why it has to be so painful.
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Because we (most of us) are still attached to sin when we die. Imagine how painful it is for a strongly-addicted person to break his addiction.

If Purgatory worries you, then spend your life breaking your attachment (I won’t say addiction) to sin. Spend your life becoming holy as your Father is holy. I have known people who, to all outward appearances, had indeed largely broken their attachment to sin.

As C.S. Lewis describes it, this is God’s demand of each of us. His demand is simply ALL. To give in to God’s demand is to finally become fully human.
 
whatevergirl said:
ok…we’re getting somewhere.😃 how about repented venial sins?
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Unrepentant venial sins at death require purging, which is what purgatory means, it is a purgation of sin through the love of God.
Hebrews 12:4-10

“In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
5* And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons?-- “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
10 For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.”

God disciplines us because of His love NOT because of His wrath or anger. He purges us in this life so that “we may share His holiness”

He purges us through purgatory after death so that “we may share His holiness” because nothing unclean shall enter in heaven (Rev 21:27) 🙂
 
VociMike said:
Because we (most of us) are still attached to sin when we die. Imagine how painful it is for a strongly-addicted person to break his addiction.

If Purgatory worries you, then spend your life breaking your attachment (I won’t say addiction) to sin. Spend your life becoming holy as your Father is holy. I have known people who, to all outward appearances, had indeed largely broken their attachment to sin.

As C.S. Lewis describes it, this is God’s demand of each of us. His demand is simply ALL. To give in to God’s demand is to finally become fully human.
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I’d like to think that many sins I have broken an attachment to…I would say the same to you as well…after all…we are all sinners…😉
 
whatevergirl said:
I’d like to think that many sins I have broken an attachment to…I would say the same to you as well…after all…we are all sinners…😉
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Yes, I am most certainly a sinner with an attachment to sin, and I should take my own advice more to heart.
 
VociMike said:
Yes, I am most certainly a sinner with an attachment to sin, and I should take my own advice more to heart.
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I don’t know if I have an attachment, after rereading my words…more like a weakness. My sins are venial, thankfully, these days…and I am forever grateful for God pulling me out of mortal sin long ago. But, now…venial sins…I’m getting better, but they can be mini stumbling blocks.🤷
 
Ok… I don’t have much time this week but I’ll do my best to reply.

I’ll start by saying that purgatory is a very dangerous belief. There’s no way this place can exist. You must believe that you are baptized into His death and are risen WITH Him in His resurrection. If you don’t believe you are risen WITH Him in His resurrection, your preaching and faith are vain and you are still in your sins when you die. The Bible says, the wages for sin is death.

Please note that believing in the resurrection of the dead and believing you are risen WITH Christ are not the same. Even Muslims believe in a resurrection onto Paradise.

1Cr 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
(insert the RCC purgatory theory)

1Cr 15:13
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1Cr 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.

1Cr 15:15
Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1Cr 15:16
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1Cr 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Cr 15:18
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Cr 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Cr 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Cr 15:21
For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

1Cr 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Eph 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:6
And hath raised [us] up TOGETHER, and made [us] sit TOGETHER in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
 
Am I perfect? God’s Word said to be perfect in Love. Here are those verses…

Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 5:47
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?

Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 
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