I Support the Troops

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thestickman:
I presume nothing. Removing Saddam from power was for the legitimate defense of the US.
That’s one opinion.
There was no rush to war.
Again, your opinion.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
Many can disagree all they wish. In this instance, the Congress and the President have the responsibility for the common good of our nation.**

But, you are presuming that the war met the conditions for a just war. Others disagree.
Good thing the war did meet the criteria, isn’t it?
If you think so, then you go ahead and think so.
 
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thestickman:
Really? Who legitimized it?
Iraq was considered a legitimate state even as we went to war with it. Iraqi soldiers were given the protection of the Geneva Convention as combatants of a state, not as insurgents or guerillas.
 
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thestickman:
I think you’re making an inadvertent apples and oranges argument, Mike. The CCC plainly states in 2309:

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

My parish priest (we aren’t in a miliary base area–matter of fact we are in a very anti-Catholic portion of the deep south) tells me this means the duly elected government of our nation makes these decisions. My adivce is, if you think the Church means something different, petition Rome to make an adjustment.
Yes, this seems unclear. Why would the leaders try to morally evaluate under the Catholic conditions if they weren’t Catholic?

Hmm. Need to consider this (and have a copy of the Cathechism to hand too, probably, mine is at home and I’m not).

Mike
 
vern humphrey:
We will if some in this country have their way. That’s why I say we have an obligation to see that such people do not do to this generation of American soldiers what was done to my generation.
Not calling American soldiers names is not what this war is about. You seem overly sensitive about the subject, Vern. Believe it or not, American soldiers don’t break down and cry if someone calls them bad names.
Let us keep the consciousness of the American people up, then, and win this war.
The Iraqi Army has been defeated, and Saddam is in custody. How long do you want the “war against terror” to drag on?
Yet there are those who chortle over the death of every American soldier, and seek to make political capital out of it.
Like we’re supposed to be upset if Ahbar the Ragpicker guffaws when he reads that another American has been killed?
 
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miguel:
Here’s another conservative Catholic’s perspective on the Iraq war:

sobran.com/columns/2005/050301.shtml

sobran.com/columns/2005/050707.shtml
Thanks, Miguel. Our “Support the Troops = Support George Bush’s War” posters would do well to reflect on what a conservative, not some leftist has written.

I especially appreciated his point that the question is not whether a war succeeds in its stated goals, but what excuses the deliberate destruction of thousands of lives in pursuit of “victory.”
 
Theorizing is nice, but:

Well guys, just about every active duty GI I know is telling me that if you don’t support what they are doing you don’t support them and you should just admit it. Thought you would like to know.
 
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gilliam:
Theorizing is nice, but:

Well guys, just about every active duty GI I know is telling me that if you don’t support what they are doing you don’t support them and you should just admit it. Thought you would like to know.
Thanks. But, that’s just one opinion. Would those same GIs say that we don’t support them because we didn’t support what went on at Abu-Ghraib?

There are simple minded civilians in our country and simple minded GIs, too.
 
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Richardols:
Thanks. But, that’s just one opinion. Would those same GIs say that we don’t support them because we didn’t support what went on at Abu-Ghraib?

There are simple minded civilians in our country and simple minded GIs, too.
It was much more than one opinion. But I know you are set in your ways, so /shrug
 
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Richardols:
I especially appreciated his point that the question is not whether a war succeeds in its stated goals, but what excuses the deliberate destruction of thousands of lives in pursuit of “victory.”
Hmm. Sounds suspiciously like Democratic Party support for abortion-on-demand. Nevermind that abortion hasn’t solved a single social ill like was promised; let’s just do everything we can to keep it legal so women can keep on choosing to kill their babies.
Democratic Party Platform of 2004:
Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman’s right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay.
– Mark L. Chance.
 
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gilliam:
Theorizing is nice, but:

Well guys, just about every active duty GI I know is telling me that if you don’t support what they are doing you don’t support them and you should just admit it. Thought you would like to know.
Because I believe the war is unjust, I cannot support it. I can, however, support such things as better armor and other safety equipment and better veterans benefits, and I most certainly can and do pray for the safety of all in the field. I can and do wish them well, but I cannot violate my conscience. If they feel this is not “supporting them,” I’m sorry, but I guess our opinions of what constitutes “support” will just have to differ.
 
Philip P:
Because I believe the war is unjust, I cannot support it. I can, however, support such things as better armor and other safety equipment.
So they can live another day and continue the war you (generic you here, nothing personal) are doing all you can to subvert at home? And as you subvert it, out of the other side of their your mouth you are saying you wish them well? They would say, come on, pick a side and stick to it!
 
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gilliam:
And as you subvert it, out of the other side of their your mouth you are saying you wish them well? They would say, come on, pick a side and stick to it!
Now, now. Subverting means to corrupt by undermining morals, allegiance, or faith. Do you really think that opposition to Bush’s War is undermining the morals, faith, or allegiance of our soldiers? To the contrary, opposition to the war is confirmation of the principles of free speech and of varying political viewpoints that we value so highly.

This is not yet Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia where they had no choice but to follow Hitler or Stalin once they decided to go to war.
 
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MikeWM:
which were manifestly ignored (use of cluster munitions, use of depleted uranium, …)
You’re an expert on “cluster munitions” and depleted uranium, are you?

Tell us which civilian targets were hit with “cluster munitions” and depleted uranium.
 
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Richardols:
Now, now. Subverting means to corrupt by undermining morals, allegiance, or faith. .
Yes, subverting allegiance in what they are doing and faith in what they are doing. And for some people undermining in all ways possible. Spending hours and days online undermining their efforts.

The soldiers know that they are not being supported by these efforts, just the opposit.

OK, I am done. I didn’t mean to post much on this thread. I’ll leave you guys to it.
 
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gilliam:
So they can live another day and continue the war you (generic you here, nothing personal) are doing all you can to subvert at home? And as you subvert it, out of the other side of their your mouth you are saying you wish them well? They would say, come on, pick a side and stick to it!
I want them to live another day. They are human beings, and so the choice of what they do in the future is theirs to make, not mine. Their humanity takes precedence over their role as soldiers. Of course I would prefer that they were not fighting an unjust war, but it does not follow that I have any right to wish them dead or maimed.
 
vern humphrey:
You’re an expert on “cluster munitions” and depleted uranium, are you?
If being an expert on a topic is the criterion for posting here, either we’d have very few posters on this Forum or we’d have people who’d be awfully limited about what they could post.
 
Philip P:
I would prefer that they were not fighting an unjust war, but it does not follow that I have any right to wish them dead or maimed.
That notion is a cheap emotional trick - that opposing the Administration’s policies is equivalent to wanting to kill American soldiers. The only people who say those things are right-wingers who have to resort to jingoistic emotionalism to justify their desired denial of another’s right to dissent.
 
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