I think my marriage is doomed

[carjack]

I have been crying :crying: non stop for 3 days. I am open to life. I recently learned that birth control pills cause abortion. I was shocked. I suffer from a condition called PCOS which my GYN prescribed birth control pills to help it. So I am using it medically, but at the same time, what if I didn’t have PCOS. My husband doesn’t believe in NFP. He thinks it is not effective, or too risky. He said that he will be celibate, except for the 2 (times) or 2 children that he wants. He doesn’t want more than 2. I am so distraught . He told me that he will not touch me, if I get off the pill, unless he uses a condom. He is athiest, so it is a bit complicated. He is a planner. He planned when exactly he would marry me. I am 28. I don’t want to wait much longer to start. He can be celibate. I am more passionate. My husband doesn’t want to touch me. Help!! Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[kevinsgirl]

I have been crying :crying: non stop for 3 days. I am open to life. I recently learned that birth control pills cause abortion. I was shocked. I suffer from a condition called PCOS which my GYN prescribed birth control pills to help it. So I am using it medically, but at the same time, what if I didn’t have PCOS. My husband doesn’t believe in NFP. He thinks it is not effective, or too risky. He said that he will be celibate, except for the 2 (times) or 2 children that he wants. He doesn’t want more than 2. I am so distraught . He told me that he will not touch me, if I get off the pill, unless he uses a condom. He is athiest, so it is a bit complicated. He is a planner. He planned when exactly he would marry me. I am 28. I don’t want to wait much longer to start. He can be celibate. I am more passionate. My husband doesn’t want to touch me. Help!! Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi, carjack!

I also have PCOS–there are actually quite of few ladies on here with it. I do have some of the symptoms but thankfully don’t have a more extreme case like you do. What I have is–moderate hirsuitism, trouble losing weight, frequent fatigue, low progesterone, difficulty conceiving, and have had 2 miscarriages (recurrent miscarriage is linked to PCOS). It is definitely not a fun thing to have…:hug1:

Did you discuss having a family with your DH before you got married? If not, I think ya’ll need to either have some good non-confrontational talks together or you need to see a counselor/priest. The way you describe it sounds like you feel trapped with your husband making all the decisions about your intimate relations and future children. When you get married, you give each other your entire self and what your husband is proposing is manipulation that has no place in marriage.

So let’s get to another thing–you’re 28 and since you’ve been on the pill, if you decide to go off of it, you should try to avoid pregnancy for awhile before trying to conceive. Say, six months or so. Your DH wants 2 kids. Ok. The only problem is that a lot of women with PCOS have fertility problems. Most women’s fertility starts to decline after they hit 35, so all those arguments may be convincing for your husband to consider starting a family sooner than later…even if you only have 2.

Now for the contraception part. Have you considered learning NFP? It’s not abortifacient and in line with church teaching. It will also allow you to better observe your symptoms with PCOS–many women with PCOS have difficulty ovulating and having regular cycles so that knowledge will be invaluable to you when you and your DH decide to start a family.

Finally, you didn’t realize the pill can be abortifacient, and now that you know you are trying to move from that. You’re doing the right thing, sweetie! Also, you are allowed to take the pill for medical reasons anyway, so while it is better to move away from it, don’t beat yourself up. Oh, and about your DH using condoms. If your spouse insists on contraception and uses a barrier method, provided you do not do anything to contracept, it isn’t a sin on your part. I believe there’s some stuff on the Ask An Apologist thread about that. It’s not the best thing for your marriage, though.

Feel free to PM me with any PCOS/NFP/anything questions! I’d be more than happy to help a fellow soul cyster.

kevinsgirl

P.S. Here’s another thread that dealt with some PCOS stuff and has some good resources…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=238960

A good book that highly recommend you get is *Taking Charge of Your Fertility *by Toni Weschler. She’s not Catholic or anything and approaches charting from a healthier living point of view which may be more appealing to your DH. Check out her website at tcoyf.com where there are forums that have a lot of answers for women with PCOS in your situation too!

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Ignorance is bliss.

Sorry that is the first thing that struck me in your post as it relates to your husband. Now I am not saying that he is ignorant or calling him names by any means. What I am saying is that (from what you posted) it seems like he does not understand what NFP is and given that he is an atheist that makes things a bit more difficult. Difficult because you may have a tough time trying to even convince him to find out what NFP actuallly is and how it works. That would be the best case scenario here. To find out how it works would actually be very enlightening to him, I would think.

I would suggest that you take the time to learn about NFP, on your own if necessary and you can practice it in your marriage. You are not culpable for his sin of using artificial birth control. Until he has a full understanding of what sex means within a marriage it may be difficult. I do not have any suggestions for you other than see if he will read “The Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West. A real eye opener as it related to sex within a marriage and the respect of each other.

 

[kage_ar]

Prayers for you. It is an intense sort of suffering, to be married to someone who does not share your faith.

Learn NFP, pray, and seek out a good orthodox Catholic marriage counselor.

 

[bilop]

I have been crying :crying: non stop for 3 days. I am open to life. I recently learned that birth control pills cause abortion. I was shocked. I suffer from a condition called PCOS which my GYN prescribed birth control pills to help it. So I am using it medically, but at the same time, what if I didn’t have PCOS. My husband doesn’t believe in NFP. He thinks it is not effective, or too risky. He said that he will be celibate, except for the 2 (times) or 2 children that he wants. He doesn’t want more than 2. I am so distraught . He told me that he will not touch me, if I get off the pill, unless he uses a condom. He is athiest, so it is a bit complicated. He is a planner. He planned when exactly he would marry me. I am 28. I don’t want to wait much longer to start. He can be celibate. I am more passionate. My husband doesn’t want to touch me. Help!! Any advice would be appreciated.

This is a very tough situation for you. I’m very sorry.

Were you aware of your husband’s views on children before marriage? Were you married in the Church? The priest who did the marriage prep should have covered this.

One thing that may help you, is that it is allowable for a Catholic to have intercourse with a spouse who insists on using contraception, as long as the catholic doesn’t use the contraception him/herself, and periodically attempts to change the spouse’s mind. So, it would not be sinful for you to have intercourse with your husband if he insisted on using a condom.

If the marriage is in fact doomed, I think you would have a good case for nullity given his views on children, which were almost certainly pre-existing.

God Bless, I will say a prayer for you.

 

[duskyjewel]

Marriages in which there is a massive lack of communication and a unilateral withholding of intimacy are very likely doomed.

If you knew his views about only wanting two children and thinking that artificial birth control were acceptable BEFORE you were married, then you married him in full knowledge and have no right to complain about it now. You are changing the terms of the deal after the contract is already signed, if that is the case.

If you didn’t know these things, then you both were extremely negligent not to have discussed such major issues before marriage. Or, if you did talk about them and he actively hid his views from you (lied), then you might even have a case for annulment based on fraud.

No matter what, you absolutely SHOULD NOT bring children into this marriage until you and he are in agreement about the number you would like to have (and this may change over time, but you need to be together on it) and how you will manage your fertility. I am willing to bet this is not the only area where you two have difficulty, and his controlling and rejecting reaction gives me great concern over his ability to parent appropriately. Children have a unique and innate ability to press our buttons. They know just how best to stress us out, and your description of his behavior makes me think he shouldn’t be a father just yet. There is a lot of maturing that needs to happen.

Please, please, don’t have a baby thinking that a baby will “make it better” or save your marriage. It not only doesn’t work, it’s an unfair burden to place on a child. They deserve to be wanted for their own sakes.

 

[carjack]

This is a very tough situation for you. I’m very sorry.

Were you aware of your husband’s views on children before marriage? Were you married in the Church? The priest who did the marriage prep should have covered this.

One thing that may help you, is that it is allowable for a Catholic to have intercourse with a spouse who insists on using contraception, as long as the catholic doesn’t use the contraception him/herself, and periodically attempts to change the spouse’s mind. So, it would not be sinful for you to have intercourse with your husband if he insisted on using a condom.

If the marriage is in fact doomed, I think you would have a good case for nullity given his views on children, which were almost certainly pre-existing.

God Bless, I will say a prayer for you.

We were not married in a Catholic Church. I never received my Holy Communion or My Confirmation. So when I got married it was in a non-denominational Christian Church. I knew he wanted two kids. I wanted three. But I wasn’t aware of anything negative about Birth Control until 3 days ago.

 

[carjack]

Marriages in which there is a massive lack of communication and a unilateral withholding of intimacy are very likely doomed.

If you knew his views about only wanting two children and thinking that artificial birth control were acceptable BEFORE you were married, then you married him in full knowledge and have no right to complain about it now. You are changing the terms of the deal after the contract is already signed, if that is the case.

If you didn’t know these things, then you both were extremely negligent not to have discussed such major issues before marriage. Or, if you did talk about them and he actively hid his views from you (lied), then you might even have a case for annulment based on fraud.

No matter what, you absolutely SHOULD NOT bring children into this marriage until you and he are in agreement about the number you would like to have (and this may change over time, but you need to be together on it) and how you will manage your fertility. I am willing to bet this is not the only area where you two have difficulty, and his controlling and rejecting reaction gives me great concern over his ability to parent appropriately. Children have a unique and innate ability to press our buttons. They know just how best to stress us out, and your description of his behavior makes me think he shouldn’t be a father just yet. There is a lot of maturing that needs to happen.

Please, please, don’t have a baby thinking that a baby will “make it better” or save your marriage. It not only doesn’t work, it’s an unfair burden to place on a child. They deserve to be wanted for their own sakes.

I knew how he felt. I agreed with him. We are not arguing over the amount of children. But the birth control. I wasn’t aware that it was a sin. Since I have been enlightened, I am trying to talk to him about NFP. This is the only area we are having difficulty in. He didn’t get angry with me, he simply was shocked at the change. I don’t blame him.

 

[bilop]

We were not married in a Catholic Church. I never received my Holy Communion or My Confirmation. So when I got married it was in a non-denominational Christian Church. I knew he wanted two kids. I wanted three. But I wasn’t aware of anything negative about Birth Control until 3 days ago.

Were you baptized Catholic?

If you were, your marriage would be invalid to the Church. If you wished to become a practicing Catholic, you would have an easy time getting a decree of nullity and becoming free to marry in the Church.

This was my brother-in-law’s situation.

God Bless

 

[carjack]

Were you baptized Catholic?

If you were, your marriage would be invalid to the Church. If you wished to become a practicing Catholic, you would have an easy time getting a decree of nullity and becoming free to marry in the Church.

This was my brother-in-law’s situation.

God Bless

He stated that he will NOT give me a divorce and would fight it hard in court. He feels because we made our vows till death do us apart, that it is the way it should be. He even said that he would be open to having our marriage blessed by the priest to make it valid in the Catholic Church’s eyes, if I decide to join it. I am torn .

 

[duskyjewel]

Okay, well, people do say things they may not really mean when shocked. So I guess… benefit of the doubt there.

I guess it really would be shocking to find this out, with society’s total acceptance of birth control pills, etc. I just wonder… this is one of the things that other churches and secular society regularly bash the Catholic Church for. I have a hard time believing that anyone living in anyplace that has any kind of media would not know that the Catholic Church rejects artificial birth control.

Anyway, you and your husband both need to learn a lot more about NFP before making any decisions. People think it’s the old rhythm method, which did NOT work, but it’s not. It’s all about observing very reliable symptoms in the woman’s body that show ovulation is approaching, and then confirm that it has happened. With that knowledge, it is possible to either avoid conception, or try for a pregnancy with higher odds of success.

There are many ladies on these boards who both have PCOS and use NFP. Hopefully some of them will respond here, but if they don’t, consider starting a thread just to discuss NFP use with PCOS.

Good luck, prayers, and sorry you have had such a shock.

P.S. About divorce: he can fight all he wants, but with no-fault divorce laws, you can unilaterally decide to end your marriage, and he can’t stop it. I’m not saying you should divorce, nor am I saying I think no-fault divorce is a good thing… but his threat is an empty one. Legally, if you want out, you can get out and he can’t stop you. He could make your life hell for a while… but no more than that.

 

[bilop]

He stated that he will NOT give me a divorce and would fight it hard in court. He feels because we made our vows till death do us apart, that it is the way it should be. He even said that he would be open to having our marriage blessed by the priest to make it valid in the Catholic Church’s eyes, if I decide to join it. I am torn .

You CAN NOT get married in Church, given his views on children. The priest won’t do it, if he finds out the truth. The marriage would be invalid due to his intentions against children and his defective understanding of the nature of sex and marriage. In any case, if you choose to leave him, you’ll want to remain free to marry in the Church.

If you choose to divorce him, he really can’t stop you. The days of having to “give a divorce” are over.

I think you have to seriously consider if you want to remain married to this man. He seems to be very controlling and not interested in your feelings, as well as being a barrier to your faith and ability to lead a Catholic life.

God Bless

 

[carjack]

You CAN NOT get married in Church, given his views on children. The priest won’t do it, if he finds out the truth. The marriage would be invalid due to his intentions against children and his defective understanding of the nature of sex and marriage. In any case, if you choose to leave him, you’ll want to remain free to marry in the Church.

If you choose to divorce him, he really can’t stop you. The days of having to “give a divorce” are over.

I think you have to seriously consider if you want to remain married to this man. He seems to be very controlling and not interested in your feelings, as well as being a barrier to your faith and ability to lead a Catholic life.

God Bless

I think I will send a letter to renounce my “membership” to the Church:1. They think my marriage is invalid and 2. I didn’t choose to be baptized, my mother did. 3. I am sure there are other Christian Trinitarian Churches that I can become a member of that approve of Birth Control. I wouldn’t want to say I am Catholic(I haven’t been saying that anyway) and be a hypocrite. OR possibly just be celibate the rest of my marriage and when we are ready to have 1 or 2 children. Those will be the only two times that we will be involved in intercouse. If I decide I want to have children. If I do not have intercourse with my husband ever again, I will take the RCIA classes and begin taking the sacrements. These seem to be my choices. I will not divorce my husband. I made a vow and I am to keep it. This is my bed and I must lie in it.

God Bless adn thank you for your advice.

 

[whatevergirl]

We were not married in a Catholic Church. I never received my Holy Communion or My Confirmation. So when I got married it was in a non-denominational Christian Church. I knew he wanted two kids. I wanted three. But I wasn’t aware of anything negative about Birth Control until 3 days ago.

If you are using it for the sole intent of preventing pregnancy, then you are cuplable…if you are using it strictly for medicinal purposes, the Church does not condemn that practice.

I’m sorry that you’re struggling with this–I would take baby steps though with your husband. If your husband is an atheist, you are not going to make the massive leap from him not believing in God, to teaching him that God doesn’t want us to use artifical bc to prevent pregnancy. He doesn’t believe in God to begin with, so I’d start there…ask him to join you at mass…Maybe buy a few Cathloic books on sexuality, and start reading them together or to each other. The first step in getting your husband to be on board with you, is that he needs to commit his life to Christ. Until he does that, I don’t think that anything will change, relating to his thoughts on birth control, or anything else the Church teaches.

I would start there, and hopefully, over time, he will come around to seeing The Truth about this. But, Rome wasn’t built in a day…people’s faith isn’t either…this might take some time. Just hang in there, and I’ll keep praying for you both! (((hugs)))

 

[bilop]

I think I will send a letter to renounce my “membership” to the Church:1. They think my marriage is invalid and 2. I didn’t choose to be baptized, my mother did. 3. I am sure there are other Christian Trinitarian Churches that I can become a member of that approve of Birth Control. I wouldn’t want to say I am Catholic(I haven’t been saying that anyway) and be a hypocrite. OR possibly just be celibate the rest of my marriage and when we are ready to have 1 or 2 children. Those will be the only two times that we will be involved in intercouse. If I decide I want to have children. If I do not have intercourse with my husband ever again, I will take the RCIA classes and begin taking the sacrements. These seem to be my choices. I will not divorce my husband. I made a vow and I am to keep it. This is my bed and I must lie in it.

God Bless adn thank you for your advice.

I hope I didn’t upset you. I’m sorry if I did. Nothing you did was sinful, because you weren’t taught the teachings of the Church.

I think the most important thing is for you to decide if you think the Catholic Church holds the Truth about God.

If you believe it does, you should not abandon it for anything.
I would not abandon the Church for my wife, my parents, my children (if and when we have them), my job, anything.

I would suggest you study the Catholic faith, and make that decision before you make any other. As part of that, I suggest you read some of Christopher West’s books on Marriage and sexuality.

God Bless, and I will pray for you.

 

[duskyjewel]

I think I will send a letter to renounce my “membership” to the Church:1. They think my marriage is invalid and 2. I didn’t choose to be baptized, my mother did. 3. I am sure there are other Christian Trinitarian Churches that I can become a member of that approve of Birth Control. I wouldn’t want to say I am Catholic(I haven’t been saying that anyway) and be a hypocrite. OR possibly just be celibate the rest of my marriage and when we are ready to have 1 or 2 children. Those will be the only two times that we will be involved in intercouse. If I decide I want to have children. If I do not have intercourse with my husband ever again, I will take the RCIA classes and begin taking the sacrements. These seem to be my choices. I will not divorce my husband. I made a vow and I am to keep it. This is my bed and I must lie in it.

God Bless adn thank you for your advice.

This reminded me of John 6 (from USSCB searchable Bible online):

20 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"
61
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you?
62
What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21
63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64
But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
65
And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
66
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
67
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
68
Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Yes, there are other churches. But they are not the Church established by Christ, they are in schism from it. The Catholic Church is the Church Christ promised to protect from error with the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church is the only one that feeds its members the true Body and Blood of Christ, as Christ commanded us to eat in this passage. Jesus knew very well how to use simile and metaphor, yet He didn’t use it here. He was literal, and purposely so. The Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth. Other churches have pieces of it, they are right on some things, but they cannot claim Apostolic Succession for their leaders, nor for many of the things they teach.

Just know what you are throwing away before you do it.

 

[beckers]

I think I will send a letter to renounce my “membership” to the Church:1. They think my marriage is invalid and 2. I didn’t choose to be baptized, my mother did. 3. I am sure there are other Christian Trinitarian Churches that I can become a member of that approve of Birth Control. I wouldn’t want to say I am Catholic(I haven’t been saying that anyway) and be a hypocrite. OR possibly just be celibate the rest of my marriage and when we are ready to have 1 or 2 children. Those will be the only two times that we will be involved in intercouse. If I decide I want to have children. If I do not have intercourse with my husband ever again, I will take the RCIA classes and begin taking the sacrements. These seem to be my choices. I will not divorce my husband. I made a vow and I am to keep it. This is my bed and I must lie in it.

God Bless adn thank you for your advice.

First off don’t go renouncing your faith. You’re a member of the family and we want you.

Second. No one is asking you to be celibate. You are on birth control for a valid medical reason. Therefore your not sinning. Please don’t start think and being weighed down by the “future what if sins” that may or may not happen or don’t be thinking about Divorce and remarriage etc at all yet. Learn what the church teaches about marriage and children. You have been enlightened by the holy spirit so go forth and learn the truth. Bring the truth back to your marriage and work on it. Don’t give up before you have even tired.

Three: As you search this site and other places please remember that not everyone is in your situation. After you have been on these boards awhile people seem to sometimes get a little moody about answering the same questions over and over and they may jump the gun too fast before they gain all the information about your situation. Just do some research and if you have any questions on clarification then please ask.

Fourth: My prayers go with you. I hope as you learn more that you be open to all that God has planned for you, your husband and your family.

May the peace of Christ be with you!
Beckers

 

[duskyjewel]

P.S. I am in NO WAY perfect on this issue myself. I have swung around from trying as hard as I could to being obedient, to being a rebellious birth control dissenter, and many places in the middle of those two. (The human will causes much havoc.) But I never thought of leaving my Church. I have repented of being a sinner in this area many times. The Church is where sinners need to be. The Catholic Church, where we can confess and KNOW that our sins are forgiven when we receive absolution. Other denominations can claim they know you are forgiven, but they cannot give you the 100% assurance of absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation (aka Confession or Penance). I personally have reached resolution on the topic for myself, but I am still not completely happy with it. Things I mourn, things I wish, wondering why it all has to be so hard. I am not preaching down to you… I am reaching out to pull you back into the Church. I really believe it’s the best place for you… and your husband and marriage.

P.P.S. Every Christian denomination agreed with the Catholic Church about artificial birth control until the 1930s. They “changed with the times.” Look at our society… is it better off for the change?

 

[choose_to_love]

Carjack, you should contact the Pope Paul VI Institute in, I think, Omaha, Nebraska, which addresses the underlying physical issues, rather than treating the symptoms, as I understand that is what the use of BCP’s for PCOS does - - treats the symptoms, not the cause.

Regarding learning NFP, I see that you are in the Allentown diocese. I do not know about the extent of their NFP teaching program, but the Scranton dioscese has a fairly substantial program of NFP instruction, and that’s not too far from you. My bride and I are near the diocesan border in that region, and we teach NFP. Check out the Scranton diocesan website as well for info about classes, etc. Use the forum PM system to contact us if you wish as well.

I am not clear from your posts. Do you consider yourself Catholic?

Also, I would suggest that you don’t get too fired up about the use of terms like “valid” and “invalid” as it relates to your marriage. They have technical canon law meanings which are not precisely the same meanings as in everyday use. It is not meant to belittle your commitment to each other. Rather, the Church has a specific understanding of marriage, which is expressed very clearly through the vows, and if you & your hubby did not have that understanding, you may not have intended what the Church intends for marriage.

 

[kevinsgirl]

Also, I would suggest that you don’t get too fired up about the use of terms like “valid” and “invalid” as it relates to your marriage. They have technical canon law meanings which are not precisely the same meanings as in everyday use. It is not meant to belittle your commitment to each other. Rather, the Church has a specific understanding of marriage, which is expressed very clearly through the vows, and if you & your hubby did not have that understanding, you may not have intended what the Church intends for marriage.