I think that protestants have taken the authority

[wisdomseeker]

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that the Bible is not the word of God? If you believe that the Bible is the word of God then it has authority because…well to put it simply it is God’s word. If you don’t believe the Bible has authority then it is not the word of God. Which is it because I am getting confused now

To say that the Bible is God’s infallible true word but then to say it has no authority makes no sense. How could God’s word have no authority?

Like I said, Protestants do not go to the Bible because they worship it. They go to the Bible because it is the word of God.

The CC has declared the Bible the inerrant Word of God. nothing new there. what you are doing is trying to replace the Church with Bible.

the Word of God has authority because is what God says. God says that His Church is Pillar and the Bullwark of the Truth. it is through the Church that the Truth is spoke.

The Bible is not to be used against the Church. protestants uses the Word of God against His Church. do you believe that God is in favor of such a thing?

 

[Kristin234]

The CC has declared the Bible the inerrant Word of God. nothing new there. what you are doing is trying to replace the Church with Bible.

the Word of God has authority because is what God says. God says that His Church is Pillar and the Bullwark of the Truth. it is through the Church that the Truth is spoke.

The Bible is not to be used against the Church. protestants uses the Word of God against His Church. do you believe that God is in favor of such a thing?

Okay, well this will just keep going in circles because I am sure you know very well that Protestants see the church as the universal church, all believers are one church. I understand that is not how you see it. So yes God does say his church is the pillar of truth, but I see his church differently from the way that you see it.

 

[Rence]

this is not about psychology. this is about Truth and one Truth of God alone.

That’s not what your question asked With all due respect, if you’re not interested in knowing what people think about your comments, then don’t ask. You could have easily just made your comment and left it at that. But you invited readers’ to share what they thought about your comments. Sorry my answer is not what you’re looking for but I answered your question.

 

[LoyalViews]

Ok…you said only a select group worship the book.

You are the one making the assertion. The burden of proof falls on you.

So prove it.

Remember that you are not God. You are in no position to know somebody’s heart.

Gimme a like where one set of Protestants say they worship the book.

If you are making a statement that you can’t prove…may I please ask why you are making it.

The best you can say if you want to go down this road is “They act to me like they are worshiping the book…but of course I don’t know the heart”.

Anything beyond that is at best a poorly worded statement. And for a poorly worded statement all that is needed is just a correction to a better wording.

So might I expect a correction of this poorly worded staqtement?

Most certainly I am not God.

I agree with you
Yes, to me, they act as if they are worshipping the book. May not be true, but to me they do. One example is the lad who runs the “Jesus-is-Saviour” website. He brings the Scriptures to a level beyond Godhood, the Authorised Version in particular.
Not the book but the words.

Anyhow, you’re right

 

[sallybutler]

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that the Bible is not the word of God? If you believe that the Bible is the word of God then it has authority because…well to put it simply it is God’s word. If you don’t believe the Bible has authority then it is not the word of God. Which is it because I am getting confused now

To say that the Bible is God’s infallible true word but then to say it has no authority makes no sense. How could God’s word have no authority?

Like I said, Protestants do not go to the Bible because they worship it. They go to the Bible because it is the word of God.

Catholics do believe that the Bible contains the words of Jesus, along with Peter, Paul, James, etc. We also believe that there are extremely smart people who were learned directly from Peter, Paul, etc that give us very good interpretations of what was meant. We do believe the Holy Spirit will lead us, but we also believe He has been leading us without cessation since He appeared to Mary & the apostles on Pentecost.

 

[JustaServant]

Ok…you said only a select group worship the book.

You are the one making the assertion. The burden of proof falls on you.

So prove it.

Remember that you are not God. You are in no position to know somebody’s heart.

Gimme a like where one set of Protestants say they worship the book.

If you are making a statement that you can’t prove…may I please ask why you are making it.

The best you can say if you want to go down this road is “They act to me like they are worshiping the book…but of course I don’t know the heart”.

Anything beyond that is at best a poorly worded statement. And for a poorly worded statement all that is needed is just a correction to a better wording.

So might I expect a correction of this poorly worded staqtement?

Post #22

 

[po18guy]

from Jesus the Christ and gave to the Bible.

I see this when they insist that the Bible is the final authority. What do you think people?

This is history’s greatest dichotomy. If they believed that the bible was an actual authority, they would retain the Apostolic Traditions of Paul, and actually believe Jesus when he said “take it to the Church”.

 

[JonNC]

I wouldn’t say they took authority away from Jesus Christ per se; however, they did take away the keys that Christ gave to Peter. Christ gave us a Church, not a book. I am always amused how protestants trump “sola scriptura” when the man who started it all, Martin Luther, ripped 7 books out of the Old Testament. He also wanted to tear out the book of James and Revelation.

sigh

A citation, please, where Martin Luther “ripped 7 books out of the Old Testament”

Luther’s translation included 74 books - yes - one more than the typical western Bible (I say western since Orthodox Bibles have more books).

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Ah but Jesus says that the Church is the pillar and Bullwark of the Truth and not the Bible.

Yes He did!!! No argument!!! And since the Church, since 1054, hasn’t been able to agree what that Truth is, we look to scripture to hold the Church accountable to that Truth. That is what sola scriptura is. It is the holding of teachers and teachings, dogma and doctrine accountable.

It does not take authority away from the Church. On the contrary, it confirms that authority.

Jon

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes He did!!! No argument!!! And since the Church, since 1054, hasn’t been able to agree what that Truth is, we look to scripture to hold the Church accountable to that Truth. That is what sola scriptura is. It is the holding of teachers and teachings, dogma and doctrine accountable.

It does not take authority away from the Church. On the contrary, it confirms that authority.

Jon

Hummm…you look to Scriptures? and just how is this working for you guys so far? besides causing confusion in teh world about the message of God? how is the world to believe if they cannot be presented with One Truth?

 

[JonNC]

Hummm…you look to Scriptures?

Hmmm. And you don’t??

and just how is this working for you guys so far?

For me, it is working fine, thank you.

besides causing confusion in teh world about the message of God?

You mean like the confusion regarding jurisdiction, the Filioque, the IC, etc?

how is the world to believe if they cannot be presented with One Truth?

Now this is something we can agree on. Christ’s Church and ministry is clearly wounded by our division. Perhaps we can start prayerfully working toward this end by being more respectful towards each other, seek each other out in Christian love and charity.

I would respectfully submit that the original post works contrary to that end.

Jon

 

[Nicea325]

Okay, well this will just keep going in circles because I am sure you know very well that Protestants see the church as the universal church, all believers are one church. I understand that is not how you see it. So yes God does say his church is the pillar of truth, but I see his church differently from the way that you see it.

You see the church differently? Another issue with Protestanism and fundamentalism. Human opinions over what God clearly established. The element of human pride as usual.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
besides causing confusion in teh world about the message of God?

You mean like the confusion regarding jurisdiction, the Filioque, the IC, etc?

Unfortunately my friend,none of those affect the Truth of the God.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes He did!!! No argument!!! And since the Church, since 1054, hasn’t been able to agree what that Truth is, we look to scripture to hold the Church accountable to that Truth. That is what sola scriptura is. It is the holding of teachers and teachings, dogma and doctrine accountable.

It does not take authority away from the Church. On the contrary, it confirms that authority.

Jon

The Church doesnt make up the Truth, it has been given to the Church from the beggining. she is protected by the HS. therefore the Church is here to teach the Truth. wheather one acccept or not it doesnt matter. just because one doenst believe, it doesnt mean it is not the Truth. protestants mindset is that “if i dont believe therefore it must not be true” this is how protestants see the truth.

 

[po18guy]

No it is not good enough.

You said that

But you have not entered one shred of objective evidence to substantiate this claim. I assume you have none.

Why do you feel the need to do this? Why? I don’t get it.

Sorry if this seems harsh…but I have just about had my fill of statements here that I really consider to be slanderous. (your church is a harlot that I was told once as an example). I just don’t get the need for this type of behaviour.

I probably need another long break from this place. Stuff like this just drives me nuts. I think I will take it as I just need to cool down.

Yes, it is a good time to take a breath and relax. However, such accusations are not without foundation. From the introduction to The Open Bible (copyright 1975 Thomas Nelson Inc. Publishers):

"The bible:

1. Discovers and convicts us of sin.
2. helps cleanse us from the pollutions of sin.
3. imparts strength.
4. Instructs us in what we are to do.
5. provides us with a sword for victory over sin.
6. makes our lives fruitful.
7. gives us power to pray."

These are the traits of a human teacher! Who needs the invisible God, when they can hold all this in their hands? This poor author even enumerates seven qualities - the heavenly sign of completeness. I find this disturbing and to me, it gives the appearance of idolatry. Yet, even this is the product of simple human nature. Saint Paul cautioned the early Christians against associating themselves too closely with any given Apostle (1 Corinthians 1:12). Since bible Churches do not have Apostles, some of them fill the void with scripture, anthropomorphizing the book.

So, no, these accusations are not without foundation.

 

[rtu25]

1 Tim 3:15

“… pillar and foundation of truth…”

furthermore:

(2 Pet 1:20-21,3:15-16). The Bible tells us that not everything Jesus said and did is recorded in Scripture

(John 21:25) and that we must also hold fast to oral tradition, the
preached Word of God (1 Cor 11:2, 1 Pet 1:25).

Consider this FACT:

God never ever [Yahweh or Christ] permitted belief in more than Him, and always ONLY what He God taught [Only one Set of Faith beliefs], and always ONLY One faith organization: The Hebrew Nation in tne OT and today’s CC in the NT.

**Psalms 127:1 **
“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.”

Romans 13: 2 “Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”

1Tim. 3: 15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the [SINGULAR] household of God, which is the church [SINGULAR] of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth [SINGULAR]

**Eph.3: 9 to 12 **“And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him

2 Peter 3: 14 –17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures”

2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

**John 5: 37 ** "and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life [Speaking of accepting the entire WORD of GOD]. I do not receive glory from men. [Meaning disobedience is rampant!] But I know that you have not the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me” [Obey Me!]

**John.10: 16 **“And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. ***So there shall be one flock, one shepherd” ***

**Eph. 2:19-20 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,[SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

CHECK OUT MY BLOG, you’ll find alot of good stuff:thumbsup:

God Bless,
Pat

Wow thanks for the more supportive scriptures!!!
+1

 

[rtu25]

If something is considered the infallible word of God then it has authority. Protestants see the Bible as the infallible living word of God, so when we read the Bible it is basically God talking to us. This is why Protestants go back to the Bible. Because it comes** from God**. We don’t pray to the Bible, we don’t worship the Bible (we do use it to learn more about God and to live like Christ. “Thy word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path”), and we definitely did not replace Jesus with the Bible.

Jesus has the final authority. The Bible tells us he has the final authority. Because the Bible is God’s word and since the Bible tells us Jesus has final authority we know that indeed he has the final authority.

It is ridiculous to say that we give it more authority than Jesus. Without Jesus there would be no New Testament. We obviously know that the Bible isn’t the one that saved us and that it isn’t our god, but we do know that our God is speaking to us through it.

Just for thought… what came first the Bible or the Church?.. is it possible that not every thing Jesus ever said and done would be written? correct me if i am wrong, does any passage for my own clarification, that Jesus left behind a Book or writings??
I know he left 12 Apostles and a CHURCH and Jesus had said it as stated in the Bible.

 

[pablope]

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that the Bible is not the word of God?

If you believe that the Bible is the word of God then it has authority because…well to put it simply it is God’s word. If you don’t believe the Bible has authority then it is not the word of God. Which is it because I am getting confused now

 

[CompSciGuy]

**from Jesus the Christ and gave to the Bible. **

This phrase did not register in my internal English language parser.
Syntax error.
Please re-state.
>

 

[Doxiemom]

Perhaps saying that they do not accept being bound by the authority of a pope but do feel bound by the higher authority of our coming King Jesus is more accurate. .And to find Him they deeply study Scripture, Old and New, for without the old, you cannot understand the new.

Study of the scripture is a devotion of the highest order.

As in the catholic church and in these other denominations or free churches, there is an abundance “misunderstandings/rumors/lies/exagerations” about each other.