I think that protestants have taken the authority

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rikkk1958 said:
I think it simply says that the Church will have the authority to interpret what it says in the Holy Bible because we all know that the Holy Bible says also that the tradition should continue to grow and teach, therefore the truth in the Bible did not cease with the writings of the disciples. The Church will grow and make changes believing that it is also guided by the Holy Spirit. These changes is not about the core of the teachings but the new found discoveries that the community will have to cope and adapt in accordance with the Doctrine of the Church. It will also defend the teachings from giving in to change. This is why the Catholic Church will never waiver to whoever teach contrary to God’s will.
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This equates to the Old Testament Church where not all things were written but the People of Israel/Church taught and practiced. The same is true for the New.

One question that should be answered by all is this…

The Old Testament of what? a Book?

The New Testament of what? a Book?

If to know the New Testament is to know the Old Testament I suggest that many of the New Testament Christians have not taken the time to study and learn what the Old Testament offers…

Ignorance of Scripture is Ignorance of Christ. It does not say Ignorance of the New Testament. I believe that there has been laxity in understanding the OT and for that reason the NT is not understood. While I believe that the Holy Spirit will guide us into truth…that truth comes with study…Paul had a revelation of the OT as it concerned the New Covenant…it was through his accurate understanding of the OT that he could explain it in a way not heard before. We should be like Paul and learn the OT.
 
CopticChristian said:
This equates to the Old Testament Church where not all things were written but the People of Israel/Church taught and practiced. The same is true for the New.

One question that should be answered by all is this…

The Old Testament of what? a Book?

The New Testament of what? a Book?

If to know the New Testament is to know the Old Testament I suggest that many of the New Testament Christians have not taken the time to study and learn what the Old Testament offers…

Ignorance of Scripture is Ignorance of Christ. It does not say Ignorance of the New Testament. I believe that there has been laxity in understanding the OT and for that reason the NT is not understood. While I believe that the Holy Spirit will guide us into truth…that truth comes with study…Paul had a revelation of the OT as it concerned the New Covenant…it was through his accurate understanding of the OT that he could explain it in a way not heard before. We should be like Paul and learn the OT.
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Agreed. But the Church does know and teach accordingly. the problem lies on Catholics who give ears to heretical teachings of protetantism and get all confused about everything. that is why God never allowed His people to mix with different teachings other than His.
 
Kristin234 said:
Okay so I am just trying to understand this. Let’s say the Catholic Church came out and said that gay marriage isn’t a sin and they approve of it** (I’m not saying they will every say that I am just hypothetically speaking). **
Would Catholics think that is okay even if the Bible says it isn’t? Since the Church is the one that has the final authority would Catholics listen to the Church and ignore that Bible?
I know that people will say well the Catholic Church can’t contradict the Bible, but like I said, hypothetically speaking. If they did come out and say something like that Catholics would have to listen to the Church since they believe that the Church has the final authority and not the Bible, right?
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JL: Hypothetically speaking I would have to conclude my interpretation of those scriptures were wrong and I would LISTEN to the Church. Just as the bible tells us Mt18:17. Otherwise I would have to conclude the bible is in error and not the inspired Word of God. Because it would be contradicting itself telling me to listen to the Church when in error. The bible tells us the Church is the pillar and ground TURTH, 1Tm3:15. If it isn’t the pillar and ground of truth then we can’t be sure of the canon of the bible. Truth does not contradict truth. That bible also tells us Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide it into ALL TRUTH, Jn16:13, not hit and miss truth. If the Church was hypothetically in error the bible would have to be in error also. In that hypothetical scenario I would probable become agnostic or atheist. Why bother the truth couldn’t be known.

We see those who claim the bible as their only authority are not bothered by teachings contradicting the bible. Such as OSAS contradicts the bible, baptism a profession only contradicts the bible, faith alone contradicts the bible. one receives the Holy Spirit and regenerated the moment they believe contradicts the bible, no oral Traditions contradicts the bible, etc…
 
jlhargus said:
JL: Hypothetically speaking I would have to conclude my interpretation of those scriptures were wrong and I would LISTEN to the Church. Just as the bible tells us Mt18:17. Otherwise I would have to conclude the bible is in error and not the inspired Word of God. Because it would be contradicting itself telling me to listen to the Church when in error. The bible tells us the Church is the pillar and ground TURTH, 1Tm3:15. If it isn’t the pillar and ground of truth then we can’t be sure of the canon of the bible. Truth does not contradict truth. That bible also tells us Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide it into ALL TRUTH, Jn16:13, not hit and miss truth. If the Church was hypothetically in error the bible would have to be in error also. In that hypothetical scenario I would probable become agnostic or atheist. Why bother the truth couldn’t be known.

We see those who claim the bible as their only authority are not bothered by teachings contradicting the bible. Such as OSAS contradicts the bible, baptism a profession only contradicts the bible, faith alone contradicts the bible. one receives the Holy Spirit and regenerated the moment they believe contradicts the bible, no oral Traditions contradicts the bible, etc…
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And they have women preachers who has their Bible in their hands, yet ask them where in the Bible there are women preaching?
 
jmcrae said:
Since it is impossible for the Church to contradict the Bible, it is not very useful to speculate on such a possibility.

I will, however, tell you that if the Church makes a statement or a law that is different than my understanding of what the Bible says (as it does from time to time) then my duty as a Catholic is to uphold the law and the teaching of the Church, and keep my personal opinions to myself, except when specifically asked for them. I can’t go around saying that my opinion is more true than the Church’s teachings, because, for one thing, the Church is a whole lot older and wiser than I am. Secondly, even if technically I am right, obedience is listed as a “virtue” but there is nothing in the virtues about “being right.” So even if I’m convinced that I’m right, I still obey, because obedience is more important.
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Sounds about where I find myself. I can think of a couple issues I take notice on. However, I find much confidence in the fact that I know the church still remains intact as Christ established it, and as far as I know the gates of hell still have not prevailed. And the prevail part includes “heresy”.
 
Mother Angelica oftened had the Bible in her lap reading from it, and Pope Benedict book
“Jesus of Nazareth”
has me going back and forth from the OT to the NT.

I mean Catholics read from the OT and NT every Mass.

Paul wrote those epistles when he was alive. Jesus must of read the torah growning up.

I think what you meant is that they hold up their Bible high in the air, and well I do have to say there are many different interpretations of scripture and one has to be careful who they listen to. I am in no way a Bible scholar, but I read it a lot.

There are some very good Prostatent preachers or pastors.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Sounds about where I find myself. I can think of a couple issues I take notice on. However, I find much confidence in the fact that I know the church still remains intact as Christ established it, and as far as I know the gates of hell still have not prevailed. And the prevail part includes “heresy”.
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'zactly.

If I don’t submit to the authority of the Church, then in essence what I do when I search for a church that conforms to my own varying interpretations of Scripture is this: I create a god in my own image (one that fits into my own agenda), rather than conforming my beliefs to that of Christ’s.

And I daresay that if you’re in a church that doesn’t say at least one thing that makes you uncomfortable, or that you find unpalatable, then you have designed a church in your own image.

It simply stands to reason, if God’s ways are not ours, that He’s going to say a bunch of things we don’t like.

It seems that some have taken to the norm of: God couldn’t have said *, so I’m going to have to change/amend/edit that command and say that it actually means .

*One good example of is: if you divorce and re-marry you commit adultery.

Now what some Christians say is God really means : I’m sad that you divorced but you can indeed marry someone new and have a second chance at happiness.
 
Gods words state that he hates divorce…when a man abandons his wife.
(as it can happen the other way around as well)

God said: Divorce is wrong-But if you are divorced you are not to remarry.
nor can a single man or woman marry a divorced person.

The world has put this on the back burner.
God said what I have joined together as '1" no man shall separate.

in todays world divorces happen at a rapid speed. I believe that God being put at the center of a marriage is what keeps this from happening.

Annulments are given to so many, I agree and disagree …depending on the situation of course. Abuse upon a spouse in one reason-If that partner does nothing to try to rectify through God and professional help for his/her abuse.
It must be a hard task indeed for priests to make this distinction.
Although it does not mention annulment in the bible…It does state how a man will treat his wife as a precious jewel…and so forth.
But without God How can that Love be present?

I say when in doubt pray!

:crossrc:
 
Kristin234 said:
I don’t understand why everyone is attacking me and being so rude when it was an honest question. I don’t know how many times I have to say it, but I was not implying anything.
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I’m truly sorry for anyone making you feel like you have been attacked.

Do you feel like your question has been or can be answered? Your question reminds me of the question: “can God make a stone too heavy for even him to lift?”

God bless!
 
Portestants do raise the Bible up over people and traditions. Jesus said that not one word in the law, old testment, would disipear until all was complete. So the Holy Spirit would move it down through history without change. This way we have an rock solid old testment. In the new testment Paul say, under the power of the Holy Spirit, that all scripture is God breath and good for teaching, rebuking, correctiong and training. 2 Tim. 3:16. So if you want to get to the bed rock of truth and not trust men they go to the bible only. Yes men may interpret it to meet their wants, but I have found if I get along with the Father and read His words He will teach me the correct maening. In John gospel twice Jesus says he would send the Holy Spirit to teach us. If all true believers do this there would not be religious killings, hatred, jealousy. And if we disagree on a passage the Holy Spirit will guide us together to the answer.
 
Rich494 said:
And if we disagree on a passage the Holy Spirit will guide us together to the answer.
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How can the Holy Spirit guide believers into contrary doctrines, Rich?

Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is “teaching” them the truth. However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? It is to be noted that all of the following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh-Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, “once saved always saved”, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD? home.inreach.com/bstanley/reform.htm
 
This is a late comer post, but it addresses a first hand experience that many protestants, not just a few equate the Bible with the “Word” that is Jesus.

My daughter was a patient 1200 miles from home in a large Children’s hospital. My husband and I were staying at the local Ronald McDonald House. I can’t say enough nice things about all the volunteers that cooked meals, left gifts for the kids etc. Some of them were affiliated with Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches. Some with Student groups from local universities, etc. She was in the hospital over Easter, and on Sunday morning a large basket was left for her by our room door by a group from a local protestant church. It contained a very nice soft cover bound youth bible. I always check through gifts before taking them too her in the hospital, some foods are not appropriate for her. I had intended to give her the Bible, though we are Catholic, she is old enough and well educated enough to appreciate it as a gift and for its intention even though it was a Protestant Bible. I took it out of the box and thumbed through it, curious about what edition it might be and found it had included in the text notes for the reader. The text was the usual size black font, the notes were in blue ink and were made to appear as hand written notes. The notes were encouraging, mostly generic advice to rely on God, trust in Jesus, etc. Curious, and being a former Baptist myself, I turned to the Gospel of John to see if there was any note where Jesus told his followers to eat His Flesh. In bright blue “handwriting” the verses were marked and the note read “Eat your Bible”.

I gave her the bible anyway, she was 17 at the time. I mentioned the note to her and it was a good discussion starter on the differences in our beliefs with the Baptists. She eventually gave the bible to a friend that was protestant.

I can’t give you the exact name of the edition and publisher because we no longer have the book.

MarysRoses.
 
Rich494 said:
Portestants do raise the Bible up over people and traditions. Jesus said that not one word in the law, old testment, would disipear until all was complete. So the Holy Spirit would move it down through history without change. This way we have an rock solid old testment. In the new testment Paul say, under the power of the Holy Spirit, that all scripture is God breath and good for teaching, rebuking, correctiong and training. 2 Tim. 3:16. So if you want to get to the bed rock of truth and not trust men they go to the bible only. Yes men may interpret it to meet their wants, but I have found if I get along with the Father and read His words He will teach me the correct maening. In John gospel twice Jesus says he would send the Holy Spirit to teach us. If all true believers do this there would not be religious killings, hatred, jealousy. And if we disagree on a passage the Holy Spirit will guide us together to the answer.
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You know I want to laugh but I am not going to. Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about. If you read the Bible, the Bible itself says that the Church Jesus built is the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth. Now did Jesus build you as the Church?
Obviously we as Catholic dont follow man but follow Jesus throught His Church. Following His Church as the same is following Jesus. Protestants on teh other hand follow teachings of man.

If you take the Bible serious, you would see that God tells us to obey the Church and not the Bible. The Bible is the book of the Church which is to be enterpreted by the Church and we are to listen to what the Church says what is in the Bible.

Protestants are not in teh Church, therefore they are left with the Bible alone which they have no knowledge of what is in it.

So, I tell you follow the Holy of the God, if you want to stop following man.
 
Rich494 said:
Portestants do raise the Bible up over people and traditions. Jesus said that not one word in the law, old testment, would disipear until all was complete. So the Holy Spirit would move it down through history without change. This way we have an rock solid old testment. In the new testment Paul say, under the power of the Holy Spirit, that all scripture is God breath and good for teaching, rebuking, correctiong and training. 2 Tim. 3:16. So if you want to get to the bed rock of truth and not trust men they go to the bible only. Yes men may interpret it to meet their wants, but I have found if I get along with the Father and read His words He will teach me the correct maening. In John gospel twice Jesus says he would send the Holy Spirit to teach us. If all true believers do this there would not be religious killings, hatred, jealousy. And if we disagree on a passage the Holy Spirit will guide us together to the answer.
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youtube.com/watch?v=gvSAiGYt0Bs&feature=related

great video.
 
wisdomseeker said:
You know I want to laugh but I am not going to. Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about. If you read the Bible, the Bible itself says that the Church Jesus built is the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth. Now did Jesus build you as the Church?
Obviously we as Catholic dont follow man but follow Jesus throught His Church. Following His Church as the same is following Jesus. Protestants on teh other hand follow teachings of man.

If you take the Bible serious, you would see that God tells us to obey the Church and not the Bible. The Bible is the book of the Church which is to be enterpreted by the Church and we are to listen to what the Church says what is in the Bible.

Protestants are not in teh Church, therefore they are left with the Bible alone which they have no knowledge of what is in it.

So, I tell you follow the Holy of the God, if you want to stop following man.
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So go ahead and laugh. When the Bible says “Church” it really is saying “the called out ones”. So the organization structure of today was not in existence them. So yes according to the word of God, I am the church. Every beleiver is in the body of Christ each to their assigned place. Jesus said in John’s gospel that He would give us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. Only when men refuse to listen to God is when the trouble starts. Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever, He never changes. He is the cornerstone the church is build on. All who listen to Him learn to love even in the disagreements and do not make fun of lesser learned body members.
 
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