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Desiring_Christ
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What does the Church have to say about these verses?
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Garyjohn2
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I think it means that in later times (later than when the verses were first written down) that people will will fall away from the true faith. This will happen because liars with flawed consciences and hard hearts will impose false teachings in regards to marriage and food.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. Marriage is already a questionable commitment in the eyes of the up-coming generation! It’s also under attack by “civil unions” and the like. In a few more generations, who knows, it might be gone all-together (though I doubt it). There is probably more that can be said about these verses.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. Marriage is already a questionable commitment in the eyes of the up-coming generation! It’s also under attack by “civil unions” and the like. In a few more generations, who knows, it might be gone all-together (though I doubt it). There is probably more that can be said about these verses.
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Fidelis
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The Church doesn’t have an official stance on every verse or passage of Scripture (unless it is a key passage in defining a particular doctrine-- Mt 16:18-19, for example). Perhaps a better way to ask it is:* among Catholics, what are some acceptable interpretations of this passage?*
For example, here is what the 1859 Haydock Bible commentary says about the passage in question. :
“DOCTRINES OF DEMONS”
By James Akin
For example, here is what the 1859 Haydock Bible commentary says about the passage in question. :
From an apologetics standpoint, where these verses are used to attack distinctively Catholic practices, see this helpful article:
“DOCTRINES OF DEMONS”
By James Akin
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Vince1022
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Nothing specific. Why do you ask? What are you really looking for?
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DPMartin
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Desiring Christ
1Tim:1:
1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3: Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
It does say “Forbidding to marry”.
I don’t know, but who forbids to marry to serve the Lord God? There’s no reference here to social misconduct in the sanctity of marriage or it’s statues as one man one woman. As some might see it.
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DPMartin
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Fidelis
Yes but doesn’t the Roman Catholic Church explicitly forbid marriage to those who would have authority in the Roman Catholic Church. And this is a matter of fact, not some redirection to some other situation, for if some other church or churches have done this in past history why is it so in the Roman Catholic Church, in reference to this text, since the Roman Catholic Church is aware of it’s Truth. Consider, should we believe what The Apostle Paul has to say in what we should see and recognize as so. Or the Roman Catholic Church’s lengthy intellectual superiority of bla bla bla excuse, oh I mean explanation, of being a word for word manifestation of what is said here? When one can plainly see it has come to pass. This is the later times, isn’t it? It is what it is, no need to deny it, in Church pride of Church infallibility.
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Fidelis
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You must not have read the article, since you seem to have missed two key points:
- The problem of wrenching the passage out of it’s original context: This passage is directed to the problem of the early Gnostics who were telling people that marriage itself is evil. As the article also pointed out, the Catholic Church not only venerates marriage, but vigorously promotes it.
- *The problem of charging the Church with something it doesn’t do: *The Church “forbids” no one to marry. No one has to become a priest or a religious; when a person makes a decision to follow one of these vocations, he or she knows full well what it entails, including the giving up of something good —in this case marriage-- to be able to embrace full-time, exclusive service to the Lord. In this they imitate St. Paul, John the Baptist, and many other great biblical saints–and even Our Lord Himself.
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Cruxis117
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Unless you’ve heard of this already, the Catholic Church does not “forbid” marriage. Even to it’s priests. An example? Eastern Catholic Churches can and do have married priests. Furthermore, this is not a doctrinal issue in the first place with in the Church, but one of discipline. Examples of scripture that supports chastity, without being married is this:
Matthew 19:11-12
11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
1 Corinthians 7:32-33
32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife—
1 Corinthians 7:38
38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.
And in relation to what I have bolded, what is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth?
I’ll give you a hint, please refer to 1 Timothy 3:15.
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Desiring_Christ
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It says “forbidding to marry.”
Wait but surely the ROMAN Catholic Church forbids its priests to marry; am I correct?
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Cruxis117
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I believe you didn’t fully read my post. I will try to clarify.
There is no “Roman Catholic Church” in the sense that it is separate from the Eastern Catholic Church. There is just the “Catholic Church”. Now, when referring to the Latin (or Roman) rite of the Catholic Church, which you are addressing, the issue of marriage is not doctrinal. As said in previous posts by other posters, the Catholic Church is pretty much all about marriage. Marriage is one of the Seven Sacraments in fact.
In the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, those who wish to become priests do forsake marriage, but as I’ve written in my previous post this is for the sake of the kingdom. Likewise, the Church does not demand this (that’s why there is marriage in the Eastern Catholic Church), but it is a voluntary discipline. It could be changed tomorrow, and every Catholic Priest of the Latin (Roman) rite could participate in the marriage sacrament. Wheras a doctrinal manner could never be changed. If it was a matter of doctrine and it said “forbid”, then yes you would be right. However, the fact of the matter is, is that either way the Catholic Church does not forbid marriage, but considers it one of the most sacred institutions God has ever created.
So, in other words, no, you are not correct.
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Desiring_Christ
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So i could become a Priest and technically get married in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church?
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Cruxis117
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No. Again, you’ve not read what I’ve wrote. Please read it again. What I clearly said, was that Priests of the Latin Rite (Roman) of the Catholic Church understand that it is a discipline to give up marriage for the sake of the Kingdom, as said in my previous post. However, this discipline is not doctrine/dogma and can be changed. In the Eastern Catholic Church (Ukrainian for example) you are able to be married prior to becoming a priest, and then once the spouse dies, the priest cannot re-marry.
You cannot, at this point in time, be a Catholic Priest of the Latin Rite and be married. This however, is not “the Catholic Church forbids marriage”, but the agreement and application of the words of Jesus and Paul, as I have previously quoted.
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Fidelis
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You are incorrect in the sense you are determined to define it, and you are determined to define it that way since you have a pet pre-conceived anti-Catholic position on this matter.
If you can’t or won’t directly address the points I and others have made-- looking, considering and commenting on what the Church actually teaches about this rather than sticking to tired prejudices, there’s not much else we can do for you. Civility in conversation–even on the internet-- requires dialogue, not a rude, one-sided rant. Farewell; you will be in my prayers.
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Vince1022
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Yes, the Roman Catholic Church currently forbids its priests to marry, as the Orthodox Church does too. But the Roman Catholic Church does not forbid married priests.
Hope this helps.
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Vince1022
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You could only become a priest if you are male and met all other requirements.
You could not become a priest and subsequently get married.
Hope this helps.
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DPMartin
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Fidelis
thanks for the reply
Please I was rased a Roman Catholic, I know where of I speak. It has always been the attitude of the Roman Catholic Church that they may no always be right, but they are never wrong.
It is the stand of the Roman Catholic Church for, I’m not sure how long, that if one is called by God to have what is considered a intimate relationship with Him. That in order to serve the Lord in Roman Catholic Church in that capacity, marriage is expressly forbidden, or the Roman Catholic Church will not allow you to take part therein. No one of any significant authority in the Roman Catholic Church may be married, from priest to Pope. It doesn’t matter if you decide to agree with that or not, it’s forbidden, hence denied participation therein. It’s not an accident, it’s on purpose. A conscience decision on the Roman Catholic Church’s part.
As it is written “that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith” and if your one who is in touch with the goings on with in the Roman Catholic Church you know where of I speak.
In visiting all these sites, manly Catholic, it’s always the attitude of the Catholic that anyone insistent in referring to Scripture as the authority, considers it an attack on their faith. What is wrong with that picture? When the True Faith (Trust) is in the Word of God.
The things that the Roman Catholic priesthood does and professes and argues is ok to do. Noah, Abraham, King David, the Prophets, the Apostles wouldn’t even think or consider, nor would ever say to do, let alone do. But the Priesthood that’s different isn’t it. There infallible, just ask them.
If Noah, Abraham, King David, the Prophets, or Apostles would go out in a public street with many watching and had bowed and prayed before a lifeless statue. No matter what it was the image of. Like it was some big event, and everyone else should do the same, what would the Lord our God have done to them?
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Fidelis
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Being an apostate Catholic hardly makes you an authority on anything. Many infamous heretics and notorious sinners were raised Catholic as well. If they would have really known and lived their Catholic Faith, they never would have left it in the first place.
Again, as you have not addressed anything I’ve said directly but continue to rant, under the accepted norms of civility, I am under no obligation to respond to anything you say at this point. It’s not that numerous answers can’t be given to your tired charges. These have been easily answered ad nauseum in these forums and elsewhere. But you won’t see me falling into the trap of responding to a bunch of tripe, while you avoid responding to well-reasoned and civil replies. So please be so kind as to not address me again unless you intend on holding a polite, Christian conversation. Thank you and farewell.
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Desiring_Christ
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I am not anti-catholic at all lol i just simply thought that it was dogma and i was having trouble understanding. Relax.
And also i didnt mean to be rude and i’m sorry if it came off that way. Its a little hard to communicate over text ya know?
Anyway , thanks for your replies everyone!
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Brywan
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Yes. In fact, my diocese has a priest who is married with children. (He was already married when he was ordained to the priesthood.)
I believe the applicable verse here is from I Corinthians 7:20-27: " remain in the condition in which you were called."
The Orthodox and Catholic Churches both take this scriptural principle quite seriously. ( I believe it is also true that if you are a married deacon, and subsequently lose your wife through death, you are not to remarry…)
There’s a bit of a joke in Eastern Orthodoxy that if you are a single woman and looking for a husband, then hang out around an orthodox seminary. The canditates for priesthood, if they are to be married, must be married before they are ordained…
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Fidelis
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Sorry for my terse reply. You were not the object of my frustration on this thread.
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