I want the Latin Mass provided in my parish!

[latingirl]

well guys, I tried to attend a Latin Mass within my diocese, found a church about 2 hours away and tried to drive there. It was so far and in an unfamiliar place, I couldn’t even find it. (not everyone has GPS).

Back then, even a poor, barefoot person without a car could walk to a Latin Mass. Now transportation and a full tank of gas are required to make it there. My question now is, why is what was once commonplace, now only a luxury for those who can afford to travel?

 

[OraLabora]

well guys, I tried to attend a Latin Mass within my diocese, found a church about 2 hours away and tried to drive there. It was so far and in an unfamiliar place, I couldn’t even find it. (not everyone has GPS).

Back then, even a poor, barefoot person without a car could walk to a Latin Mass. Now transportation and a full tank of gas are required to make it there. My question now is, why is what was once commonplace, now only a luxury for those who can afford to travel?

Because the “Ordinary Form” of the Mass has superseded the Tridentine Mass, as being the “ordinary” (as in regular, not as in banal, though sometimes the OF does seem banal due to the often sloppy way it is celebrated) celebration of the Mass.

It really is that simple. And until the Church deems otherwise, that’s how it will likely remain.

How about putting all that effort and energy into improving the liturgy in your own parish? Like introducing, at least occasionally, the Latin & Greek ordinary, chanted on simpler tones; encouraging the following of the rubrics; and best yet participating in the music ministry of your parish to see if you can influence some improvements there?

The thing the Benedictines taught me about liturgy. It’s not all about me. In fact almost none of it is “about me”. It’s about the public attachment of ourselves to the Body of Christ and entering into deep communion with Christ, which requires a considerable dose of surrender of one’s self.

Of course we’re all hopeful that liturgy will be well-executed. We all have a role to play in that I should think, from the silence and reverence we show in church, to our participation in the various activities surrounding the liturgy in the parish. For instance, in my case, I sing in a Gregorian schola, and am a director of the Gregorian Institute of Canada. Last summer we celebrated an OF Mass in Montreal, completely in Latin, with Gregorian chant for the propers and ordinary of that Sunday, chanted readings, and we “borrowed” a priest who was able to chant the Mass including the EP in Latin. It was very well received and very well attended. Would they want a Mass like that every Sunday? Unlikely, but certainly a few times a year would be welcome.

When it comes to good liturgy, I think “demanding” generally just makes us into the parish pain in the butt. On the other hand, giving of our time and talents, reaps rewards.

 

[CB_Catholic]

well guys, I tried to attend a Latin Mass within my diocese, found a church about 2 hours away and tried to drive there. It was so far and in an unfamiliar place, I couldn’t even find it. (not everyone has GPS).

Back then, even a poor, barefoot person without a car could walk to a Latin Mass. Now transportation and a full tank of gas are required to make it there. My question now is, why is what was once commonplace, now only a luxury for those who can afford to travel?

It was commonplace because it once was the ordinary Mass for all Catholics. That is no longer true. There is now a new form of the Mass, put in place by the Church itself, which is now the ordinary form of the Mass for the world’s billion Catholics, no matter what language they speak. So the EF is now no longer widely available because it is not the ordinary Mass of the Church. A poor barefoot person who wishes to attend Mass now can still walk to it, but it will be the regular Mass Catholics attend, not the EF.

It is not a luxury for those who can afford to travel. There are plenty of people who don’t have to travel far to go to one. It is just a matter of location. If I want to see the Empire State Building I have to travel 8 hours to see it because of the location. I can’t consider it a luxury for those who can afford to travel, it’s where it is because it’s where it is.

If you want an EF pray and work for it if able, or maybe some day you will be in a position to move to an area where it is close. But since it is EXTRAordinary, it is not going to be widely enough available to suit everyone.

And to tell the truth, people being who they are, (priests and laity), if it ever became ordinary again, it would soon cease to become as treasured as it is now, believe me, I was there when it was the ordinary Mass. Be thankful that people can appreciate it and see the beauty now. That would soon cease.

 

[latingirl]

Ummm why do you think I haven’t tried that? I was in the choir for 3 years. I tried, tried tried. I asked the music director many questions about liturgy, he resisted any of my suggestions tooth and nail. They resisted me. Please don’t assume that because I’m asking for something, I was too lazy to change it myself.

 

[otjm]

Okay, I heard that it is now church law that if you petition the local bishop to have a Latin Mass provided in your parish, that he has to provide it and if there is no priest who can say it, he also must provide one. I have asked around and no one’s really told me how to get this started.So, I am asking you guys. How do I petition to have the Latin Mass said in my parish church?

You need to read the actual rules. Not so.

 

[otjm]

As an earlier poster pointed out why is Canon Law being broken/ignored instead of enforced?
Is this canon universal or can the Bishops Conference in each country change this as they want?

Can. 249 The Charter of Priestly Formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in latin, and have a suitable knowledge of other languages which would appear to be necessary or useful for their formation or for the exercise of their pastoral ministry.

It is being broken/ignored because Rome has bigger fish to fry. And, I would suspect, there is not a strong to very strong consensus of opinion in rome that this is a matter to be enforced.

Stop, for a minute - what are they going to do - shut down seminaries? Not likely.

What does Canon law say is the enforcement mechanism? If there is none, there is part of your answer.

 

[IesumPerMariam]

It is being broken/ignored because Rome has bigger fish to fry. And, I would suspect, there is not a strong to very strong consensus of opinion in rome that this is a matter to be enforced.

Stop, for a minute - what are they going to do - shut down seminaries? Not likely.

What does Canon law say is the enforcement mechanism? If there is none, there is part of your answer.

The enforcement mechanism is supposed to be that a man who is not proficient in Latin is not to be considered adequately prepared for Ordination, and thus not ordained by his bishop. Obviously that doesn’t work too well…

 

[OraLabora]

Ummm why do you think I haven’t tried that? I was in the choir for 3 years. I tried, tried tried. I asked the music director many questions about liturgy, he resisted any of my suggestions tooth and nail. They resisted me. Please don’t assume that because I’m asking for something, I was too lazy to change it myself.

Then do like we did. Found a schola, of people of like-minded interest. We rotate each month to a different parish of the diocese. We’re welcomed because it’s a “special occasion”, but it does help foster interest in chant even from younger faithful.

We specialize only in chant. We’re not interested in modern liturgical music, though one or two of our members also sing in a liturgical choir doing modern stuff.

We only sing at OF masses by the way, the only EF Mass in the area is SSPX and we won’t get involved with them.

 

[Silver_Thread]

Can anyone imagine that the statues, altars, high altars, marble altar rails etc were taken away to a dump and crushed up? The logical answer would be no! Someone (I know of one in particular) scarfed up the items at a neat price and stored them to the day when they would be needed and looked to make a nice profit. Now, who had control of these items before they were sold? Bishops? Certainly not the laity who paid for them.
As the TLM is making a small come-back, who pays for the items needed to refurbish the churches and the priests’ vestments, books and other items needed? My position is simply this. The Bishops should pay for everything. Oweing to the fact that not more than one or two churches need restoration and they most likely received payments for said items when they were taken away!
Let me know what you think!!

 

[Silver_Thread]

Okay, I heard that it is now church law that if you petition the local bishop to have a Latin Mass provided in your parish, that he has to provide it and if there is no priest who can say it, he also must provide one. I have asked around and no one’s really told me how to get this started.So, I am asking you guys. How do I petition to have the Latin Mass said in my parish church?

 

[Silver_Thread]

Okay, I heard that it is now church law that if you petition the local bishop to have a Latin Mass provided in your parish, that he has to provide it and if there is no priest who can say it, he also must provide one. I have asked around and no one’s really told me how to get this started.So, I am asking you guys. How do I petition to have the Latin Mass said in my parish church?

First things first. You need a stable group. Numbers matter. You try to find a sympathetic priest. Then you make an appeal to the Bishop. If he refuses, you must then appeal to the Ecclesia Dei Commission. Get your petitions started…Good luck and God Bless!!!

 

[clem456]

Can anyone imagine that the statues, altars, high altars, marble altar rails etc were taken away to a dump and crushed up? The logical answer would be no! Someone (I know of one in particular) scarfed up the items at a neat price and stored them to the day when they would be needed and looked to make a nice profit. Now, who had control of these items before they were sold? Bishops? Certainly not the laity who paid for them.
As the TLM is making a small come-back, who pays for the items needed to refurbish the churches and the priests’ vestments, books and other items needed? My position is simply this. **The Bishops should pay for everything. **Oweing to the fact that not more than one or two churches need restoration and they most likely received payments for said items when they were taken away!
Let me know what you think!!

Where does the Bishop get the resources to do anything?

 

[Silver_Thread]

Where does the Bishop get the resources to do anything?

I’m talking about something that was paid for, sold and the money is in the Bishops account. Local parishes or a stable group do not have the resources that the diocese has.Considering all that was removed from almost all the churches, ;that should add up to a pretty penny… NO?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I’m talking about something that was paid for, sold and the money is in the Bishops account. Local parishes or a stable group do not have the resources that the diocese has.Considering all that was removed from almost all the churches, ;that should add up to a pretty penny… NO?

I don’t think the Bishops have all that money from the sale of those things, if they ever had all of it in the first place. An old parish I belonged to as a child was deteriorating and many things were sold to pay for the repairs and maintenance. It was essentially stripped. 45 years later, it is now closed.

The stuff in these parishes was paid for and donated by the parishoners, not the diocese. I don’t know how much, if anything has to be given to the diocese from the sale of items–that is an interesting question, but I believe most of it stays in the parish., if the parish remains open.

In any case, the money collected 40 or so years ago is probably long gone. Any money the Bishops have comes out of our pockets from the assessment paid from the collection. Most parishes are not going to finance an EF Mass that very few people from their parish alone are going to attend, and pay a priest to say it, if someone from the parish can’t. They are strapped enough trying to meet the basics of the parish.

 

[Silver_Thread]

I don’t think the Bishops have all that money from the sale of those things, if they ever had all of it in the first place. An old parish I belonged to as a child was deteriorating and many things were sold to pay for the repairs and maintenance. It was essentially stripped. 45 years later, it is now closed.

The stuff in these parishes was paid for and donated by the parishoners, not the diocese. I don’t know how much, if anything has to be given to the diocese from the sale of items–that is an interesting question, but I believe most of it stays in the parish., if the parish remains open.

In any case, the money collected 40 or so years ago is probably long gone. Any money the Bishops have comes out of our pockets from the assessment paid from the collection. Most parishes are not going to finance an EF Mass that very few people from their parish alone are going to attend, and pay a priest to say it, if someone from the parish can’t. They are strapped enough trying to meet the basics of the parish.

You speak of one church. How many were closed, stripped and leveled? I can assure you the local parishoners got nada, zilch from the sale of the property or it’s contents. The actual money may be gone but the responsibility remains. We’re not talking about every church. It looks like one …maybe two in each diocese.

 

[diane_taylor]

The truth of the matter is, according to Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum [2007] & the follow up Instruction Universae Ecclesiam, any priest anywhere may offer Holy Mass according to the 1962 Missal.
This Missal, in use everywhere in the world until the Novus Ordo [New Order] Missal was introduced in 1969/70, was erroneously banned in early 1970s.
Now regrettably 6 years later, so many priests, bishops & cardinals continue to disobey Benedict XVI direction to make available the use of this Missal, with the Mass now called Extraordinary Form [EF]. Instruction in its use is only taught in the few so called Traditional Seminaries, it seems.
Consequently very few priests are available to offer EF. Vatican authorities have confirmed again relatively recently, that attendance at the Masses provided by the Fraternity of the Society of Pius X [SSPX] is perfectly legitimate.
Diane Taylor (M’Phil).

 

[Silver_Thread]

The truth of the matter is, according to Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum [2007] & the follow up Instruction Universae Ecclesiam, any priest anywhere may offer Holy Mass according to the 1962 Missal.
This Missal, in use everywhere in the world until the Novus Ordo [New Order] Missal was introduced in 1969/70, was erroneously banned in early 1970s.
Now regrettably 6 years later, so many priests, bishops & cardinals continue to disobey Benedict XVI direction to make available the use of this Missal, with the Mass now called Extraordinary Form [EF]. Instruction in its use is only taught in the few so called Traditional Seminaries, it seems.
Consequently very few priests are available to offer EF. Vatican authorities have confirmed again relatively recently, that attendance at the Masses provided by the Fraternity of the Society of Pius X [SSPX] is perfectly legitimate.
Diane Taylor (M’Phil).

What you have quoted is true and well known. However, my point speaks more to the restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass to churches that are now open to the celebration of the so called Extraordinary Form but are not quite suitable due to the desecration of the churches. The TLM was restored to our diocese, however, now the pastor is speaking of a $1.5 M restoration project. My question is…who pays? My ancestors paid once. The statues, vestments, marble altars, communion rails, etc are gone. Who profited from their sale and who should restore them. Lets use some common sense. Does anything of this magnitude happen in any church with out the knowledge of the bishop? Who profits from the disposition ? And who should pay for the restoration owing to the fact that we are not asking for the restoration of all churches, only those that need to accommodate the TLM>

 

[10thCrusader]

What you have quoted is true and well known. However, my point speaks more to the restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass to churches that are now open to the celebration of the so called Extraordinary Form but are not quite suitable due to the desecration of the churches. The TLM was restored to our diocese, however, now the pastor is speaking of a $1.5 M restoration project. My question is…who pays? My ancestors paid once. The statues, vestments, marble altars, communion rails, etc are gone. Who profited from their sale and who should restore them. Lets use some common sense. Does anything of this magnitude happen in any church with out the knowledge of the bishop? Who profits from the disposition ? And who should pay for the restoration owing to the fact that we are not asking for the restoration of all churches, only those that need to accommodate the TLM>

It’s true that a lot of churches got gutted in the “spirit of Vatican II,” but you can still set things up for a traditional Latin Mass fairly easily. We do it every week here in Seattle. The Video below shows how a parish in France does it.

youtube.com/watch?v=oUNfbgRJOe8

And LatinGirl, don’t give up. Try to find others in your parish. Keep talking about it. See if there’s interest. We got the Latin Mass in my old parish with only 25 people asking for it - and that was in the days when we only had the Ecclesia Dei decree to back us up. Now you have Pope Benedict XVI’s motu propria to give it more weight. It took a couple of years, but we finally got it.