I Was A Jehovah's Witness from age 28-44. I'm now 55

[Vasian]

Walcome back! :hug1:

I’m wondering if you heard or were taught anything against other faiths, whether Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or something else. And, if so, what were you taught?

Yes, of course. Where do you want me to start!

Catholics:
The biggy…They believe in the false doctrine of the trinity.
They have communion all screwed up
They prohibit men from marrying.
They do not understand about the Kingdom.
and on, and on and on…
The Jews deny that the Messiah has already come, not once but twice as the JW’s believe Christ came again in 1914.

They have something negative to say about everyone.

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

Ask me any question you’d like, and I will try and answer it as best I can.

This is an oppertunity that I could not easily stand back and let go to waste, so here I am. Tell me then, Vasian, what exactly is the JW view on Jesus Christ being Lord?

 

[Kay_Cee]

I’m still hurdling!

1. The Trinity doctrine, but I must say it is getting clearer as I read more on it.

By far the best book I have ever read about this is Frank Sheed’s *Theology and Sanity, *especially chapters 6 and 7.

Hope this helps!

 

[emarc]

You’ve left and become a Catholic?

2 Peter 2:22 Question is Does this apply to you?

Matthew 7:21-23 This applies to all mainstream religion.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are much more dedicated than anyone else. They get out there and do the hard work, and not afraid of it either. They wont go to war, and not involved politically in any way. (Exactly the same as Jesus Christ and the early Christians) They remove people that are not sorry for gross sin that is in contradtiction to Bible standards. They are deadly serious about serving the Almighty God

I would not criticise them as they are the real deal in my view.

I am looking at them closely now.

last month 2 JWs knocked on our door and i welcomed them in. after brief pleasantries i asked them if they believe Jesus Christ is God and they said No but a little god lower than Jehovah. i asked them if they worshipped Jesus and they said No. questions like where we got the bible, Jn 6:53ff Jesus’ body and blood, and others proved they could not explain. i suggested to them to go to the early fathers’ writings w/c they could eaily research online. these people are good people but they are being misled in their faith. their belief has a smack of arianism apostasy w/c our early fathers successfully debunked. st. paul admonished us to be careful of teachings different from what they preached even if these come from angels and it’ll be wise for us to heed his advice. God bless.

 

[mackbrislawn]

You’ve left and become a Catholic?

2 Peter 2:22 Question is Does this apply to you?

Matthew 7:21-23 This applies to all mainstream religion.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are much more dedicated than anyone else. They get out there and do the hard work, and not afraid of it either. They wont go to war, and not involved politically in any way. (Exactly the same as Jesus Christ and the early Christians) They remove people that are not sorry for gross sin that is in contradtiction to Bible standards. They are deadly serious about serving the Almighty God

I would not criticise them as they are the real deal in my view.

I am looking at them closely now.

What you say is correct. JW’s are dedicated and do hard work.

Of course this doesn’t make them true. They might be true, but it is not the above standards that make them so. A lot of heretics are dedicated, are serious, and do hard work as well.

And, where were the JW’s during the centures that missionaries went out and converted the pagans? Europe, Africa, the Americas? Not JW’s. Their primary mission field is among areas already evangelized by others. Some would call it “sheep stealing.”

 

[Vasian]

This is an opportunity that I could not easily stand back and let go to waste, so here I am. Tell me then, Vasian, what exactly is the JW view on Jesus Christ being Lord?

That he is in fact, our Lord and Savior.
They do not deny this, and do not as some claim, and believe about the JW’s that they water down the prominence of Christ as our Savior and Lord. This is a myth about JW’s.
They however, do not believe in The Trinity as Christ, God (YHWH) and the Holy Spirit being all equal in prominence. (perhaps this is where Catholics and others see them as watering down Christ?)
Their belief is that Christ is the Son of God (Jehovah) whom through all things were created, and the the Holy Spirit is God’s “active force”.
They believe that Christ is “a” god, but not the Almighty God.

 

[Vasian]

By far the best book I have ever read about this is Frank Sheed’s *Theology and Sanity, *especially chapters 6 and 7.

Hope this helps!

Thank you! I will order it:thumbsup:

 

[jesuspsr]

Welcome back:thumbsup:

 

[SingleMomMonica]

That he is in fact, our Lord and Savior.
They do not deny this, and do not as some claim, and believe about the JW’s that they water down the prominence of Christ as our Savior and Lord. This is a myth about JW’s.
They however, do not believe in The Trinity as Christ, God (YHWH) and the Holy Spirit being all equal in prominence. (perhaps this is where Catholics and others see them as watering down Christ?)
Their belief is that Christ is the Son of God (Jehovah) whom through all things were created, and the the Holy Spirit is God’s “active force”.

They believe that Christ is “a” god, but not the Almighty God.

How do they reconcile their belief the Jesus is “a god” when the Scripture is clear that there is only One God and all other “gods” are false gods?

 

[Vasian]

How do they reconcile their belief the Jesus is “a god” when the Scripture is clear that there is only One God and all other “gods” are false gods?

It is based one scripture where most bibles state this:
John 1
Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The JW bible states, “and the Word was A god…”

 

[Vasian]

One who adheres to the Trinity doctrine also is challenged by these scriptures seperate from the JW claim of difference on John 1.

Paul the monotheist could not have believed that Jesus was God because he wrote:
“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).
“There is no God but one…. yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all
things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and
we exist through Him” (1 Corinthians 8:6).
“There is … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father” (Ephesians 4:4-6).
“The God and Father of our/the Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31).
“Christ belongs to God” because “God is the head of Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:23; 11:3).
“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” (2 Corinthians 5:19).
“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (salutations 6x).
Jesus cannot be God because of the following logical reasons:
If Jesus did miracles by means of a divine nature, the Father did not do the works of Jesus.
If Jesus’ ability to do miracles was intrinsic, He did not need the power of the Holy Spirit.
God is totally self-sufficient, but Jesus needed the miracle-working power of God’s Spirit.
There is no biblical evidence that Jesus had two natures and wills, which is non-human.
God transcends His creation, so that being God is incompatible with being human.
God foreknowsthe yet future date of Jesus’ return to earth, but Jesus did not know it.

Jesus is not God because of the following biblical evidence or lack thereof:
There is no New Testament evidence that Jesus ever thought that He was God.
There is no New Testament evidence that Jesus ever claimed that He was God.
There is New Testament evidence that Jesus denied that He claimed to be God.
At Jesus’ examination before the Sanhedrin, He was never accused of claiming to be God.
The Bible regularlydistinguishes between God and Jesus as two separate individuals.
The New Testament constantly interchanges the words “God” and “the Father.”
The New Testament repeatedly identifies “God” exclusively as “the Father.”
The New Testament contains no unambiguous statement such as “Jesus (Christ) is God.”
In the synoptic gospels and the book of Acts, Jesus clearly is never identified as “God.”
Thus, in the evangelistic sermons in the book of Acts, Jesus is never proclaimed as “God.”

Jesus cannot be God because Jesus said concerning Himself:
“Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone” (Mark 10:18).1
“the Son can do nothing of Himself” (John 5:19, cf. v. 30).
“You,… make Yourself out to be God.” “I said, ‘I am the Son of God’” (John 10:33, 36).
“The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28).
“Father,… the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent” (John 17:1, 3).
“Jesus said to her, ‘I ascend to My Father … and My God and your God’” (John 20.17).

From a n on JW servetustheevangelical.com/authors_quest_for_real_jesus_3.html

 

[adelore]

Welcome Back Home.

Your post sure hit a lot of memories for me. I studied with JW’s for 7 years. They really “Pushed” me to become of Publisher. Of course I refused. They really wanted me to get baptized into their church…Again I refused. I had made a lot of friends within the Kingdom Hall that use to come out and study with me.

But the icing on the cake was when they (a group of ladies from the Kingdom Hall) came out to my house and tried to get in between my husband and me. They wanted me to choose the Kingdom Hall, become a Publisher, over my marriage. They even went on to let me know I could get divorced and it’d be ok because my husband wasn’t a studing, soon to be, (or so they thought) a JW. They even told me if I divorced him I could always get re-married and that it was ok with JW’s. That wrapped it for me…and of course now no one in the Kingdom Hall is my friend. I was excomunicated before I had even joined…

 

[Vasian]

Welcome Back Home.

Your post sure hit a lot of memories for me. I studied with JW’s for 7 years. They really “Pushed” me to become of Publisher. Of course I refused. They really wanted me to get baptized into their church…Again I refused. I had made a lot of friends within the Kingdom Hall that use to come out and study with me.

But the icing on the cake was when they (a group of ladies from the Kingdom Hall) came out to my house and tried to get in between my husband and me. They wanted me to choose the Kingdom Hall, become a Publisher, over my marriage. They even went on to let me know I could get divorced and it’d be ok because my husband wasn’t a studing, soon to be, (or so they thought) a JW. They even told me if I divorced him I could always get re-married and that it was ok with JW’s. That wrapped it for me…and of course now no one in the Kingdom Hall is my friend. I was excomunicated before I had even joined…

The official WTS position is not to meddle in marriages, however it did happen quite often. That is just one of the dangers of allowing just anyone to council with others.
I saw it often where the non believing mate was not treated, let’s say very well.
Let me be clear about this… This happened because congregation members would meddle in marriages, and not the WTS itself.
Those women had no business even talking to you about your marriage.

 

[Javl]

One who adheres to the Trinity doctrine also is challenged by these scriptures seperate from the JW claim of difference on John 1.

Paul the monotheist could not have believed that Jesus was God because he wrote:
“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).
“There is no God but one…. yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all
things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and
we exist through Him” (1 Corinthians 8:6).
“There is … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father” (Ephesians 4:4-6).
“The God and Father of our/the Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31).
“Christ belongs to God” because “God is the head of Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:23; 11:3).
“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” (2 Corinthians 5:19).
“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (salutations 6x).
Jesus cannot be God because of the following logical reasons:
If Jesus did miracles by means of a divine nature, the Father did not do the works of Jesus.
If Jesus’ ability to do miracles was intrinsic, He did not need the power of the Holy Spirit.
God is totally self-sufficient, but Jesus needed the miracle-working power of God’s Spirit.
There is no biblical evidence that Jesus had two natures and wills, which is non-human.
God transcends His creation, so that being God is incompatible with being human.
God foreknowsthe yet future date of Jesus’ return to earth, but Jesus did not know it.

Jesus is not God because of the following biblical evidence or lack thereof:
There is no New Testament evidence that Jesus ever thought that He was God.
There is no New Testament evidence that Jesus ever claimed that He was God.
There is New Testament evidence that Jesus denied that He claimed to be God.
At Jesus’ examination before the Sanhedrin, He was never accused of claiming to be God.
The Bible regularlydistinguishes between God and Jesus as two separate individuals.
The New Testament constantly interchanges the words “God” and “the Father.”
The New Testament repeatedly identifies “God” exclusively as “the Father.”
The New Testament contains no unambiguous statement such as “Jesus (Christ) is God.”
In the synoptic gospels and the book of Acts, Jesus clearly is never identified as “God.”
Thus, in the evangelistic sermons in the book of Acts, Jesus is never proclaimed as “God.”

Jesus cannot be God because Jesus said concerning Himself:
“Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone” (Mark 10:18).1
“the Son can do nothing of Himself” (John 5:19, cf. v. 30).
“You,… make Yourself out to be God.” “I said, ‘I am the Son of God’” (John 10:33, 36).
“The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28).
“Father,… the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent” (John 17:1, 3).
“Jesus said to her, ‘I ascend to My Father … and My God and your God’” (John 20.17).

From a n on JW servetustheevangelical.com/authors_quest_for_real_jesus_3.html

Vasian:

I have come across all these points in my discussions with JWs. Each and everyone of them has been answered and/or refuted by the CC. I don’t remember all the answers, but I am sure that the CAF Library has all the necessary information. For instance, when Jesus says that “the Father is greater than I am”, He is talking about filial relationship.
And also Jesus did claim to be God when He said “Before Abraham was born, I AM”. Only God is known as I AM. The Bible abounds with references to the Holy Trinity and Jesus as God. These are only a couple of examples that I remember off hand.

Welcome back and God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Monica4316]

To me, it was always obvious that Jesus is God, because He said He’s one with the Father, and He called Himself the “I AM”. Also, He forgave sins, which the Jewish people believed only God can do. When Paul said that there’s one God, that doesn’t contradict our faith, cause we believe there is only one God, but in three Persons. (The Trinity.)

Then Paul says in Colossians 1:15-16:
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Jesus also said: “He who has seen Me has seen the Father”

 

[T_More]

That he is in fact, our Lord and Savior.
They do not deny this, and do not as some claim, and believe about the JW’s that they water down the prominence of Christ as our Savior and Lord. This is a myth about JW’s.
They however, do not believe in The Trinity as Christ, God (YHWH) and the Holy Spirit being all equal in prominence. (perhaps this is where Catholics and others see them as watering down Christ?)
Their belief is that Christ is the Son of God (Jehovah) whom through all things were created, and the the Holy Spirit is God’s “active force”.
They believe that Christ is “a” god, but not the Almighty God.

Vasian, don’t forget that they believe Jesus to actually be Michael the Archangel.

 

[Vasian]

Vasian, don’t forget that they believe Jesus to actually be Michael the Archangel.

And this is why…

If you compare the two Bible texts, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and John 5:25-28 it is fairly easy to see why this is one of the strongest cases for supporting the idea that Michael is Jesus.

there does seem to be two possible meanings to: “the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel’s voice” 1 Thessalonians 4:16. They are: (1) the archangel could be shouting for Jesus; or (2) Jesus could be doing the shouting Himself and he is using the voice of an archangel because He is the Archangel.

John 5:25,28 is their supporting evdence that solves the alleged problem: “the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God”. So in 1 Thessalonians, its the archangel’s voice, but in John 5, it is the voice of the Son of God )?)
Can one be wrong and the other right?
Hmmmm???
Therefore, yes they do have an opinion that Michael the Arch Angel is Jesus’ pre-earthly existance.
Of course there are other scriptural scenarios they cite as well.

 

[T_More]

And this is why…

If you compare the two Bible texts, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and John 5:25-28 it is fairly easy to see why this is one of the strongest cases for supporting the idea that Michael is Jesus.

there does seem to be two possible meanings to: “the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel’s voice” 1 Thessalonians 4:16. They are: (1) the archangel could be shouting for Jesus; or (2) Jesus could be doing the shouting Himself and he is using the voice of an archangel because He is the Archangel.

John 5:25,28 is their supporting evdence that solves the alleged problem: “the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God”. So in 1 Thessalonians, its the archangel’s voice, but in John 5, it is the voice of the Son of God )?)
Can one be wrong and the other right?
Hmmmm???
Therefore, yes they do have an opinion that Michael the Arch Angel is Jesus’ pre-earthly existance.
Of course there are other scriptural scenarios they cite as well.

Right, so let’s count 'em up. Jesus is Jesus and also Emmauel, and when in heaven he’s actually Michael. Sounds like a different Trinity!

 

[Vasian]

Right, so let’s count 'em up. Jesus is Jesus and also Emmauel, and when in heaven he’s actually Michael. Sounds like a different Trinity!

Sarcasm, correct?

 

[T_More]

Sarcasm, correct?

Yes. Sorry, Vasian. I have a dark sense of humor and am very cynical. It’s a flaw of mine that I try to work on, but sometimes wonder if Christ uses it for his own purposes.