I was anti-spanking until my son hit age 2

  • Thread starter Thread starter Serap
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Serap

Guest
I have to fight with my son everyday. He hits his sister and I fight with him for 15 minutes getting him to stay in his time out. Then he starts hitting me too. He’s very defiant and will not listen to anything I tell him. He has a terrible temper.

He gets really mad at me and begins to hit and kick me and that’s when he gets a smack from me. No matter what I do, he continues to hit me, kick me and hit and kick his sister. He hits his dad as well and his dad also recently begun hitting his hand or bum (just in the past week).

My husband and I are at wits end. We are tired of relatives saying he’s bad, violent, aggressive, etc. He also hits kids at the park.

Time outs do not work, so anti-spanking people, please don’t tell me how great time outs are b/c they are not working.

I would like some constructive feedback on how to discipline my very difficult child b/c both me and my husband are at wits end. My son’s behaviour really angers me and I’m so sick and tired of hearing negative comments about him.
 
I don’t think hitting him is the solution to get him to stop hitting other people, KWIM?

I think that when your child reaches 2 and starts to push boundaries and throw tantrums, you have to reach down deep inside yourself and maintain your control. Yes it can wear you down to consistently apply consequences, but now is the time to set the standard and follow through.

Some level of aggression and acting out is normal at this age, but frankly your child’s behavior seems a bit outside the norm. Hitting you and your husband, in addition to his sister, and complete strangers in the park plus the fact that objective observers indicate he is overly aggressive seems like cues you should be heeding. Perhaps it is time for a visit to the pediatrician for evaluation. Look at his diet, what he may be watching on TV, and his amount of physical activity and sleep.
 
You can’t strike out of anger. Ever. Nor can you teach a child that he can’t hit by hitting him.

I’m not an anti-spanking parent. I give my kids the old swat on the backside when they earn it. But it’s never accompanied by threats or yelling or anything of the kind. It’s deliberate, it’s followed up by a time-out and then that’s followed up by an apology with hugs.

Spanking in our family is a way of demonstrating the severity of the situation. I never strike with enough force to hurt. Never, ever. That’s not helpful at all. And when there is fighting or defiant behavior physically, I refrain from spanking. Can’t reinforce not hitting by hitting as I said before. They get a doubly-sized timeout and have to reconcile with the parent or sibling before they can do anything else.

Some kids are going to be extremely trying. But at two I think there are ways to demonstrate that you and dad are always going to win and he is never going to win. Do the absolute best you can not to communicate with him when he is defiant. Just plunk him down in his time-out spot. He gets up, you grab him and plunk him down again. Don’t say a single word. That’s what he wants. He wants to try to exercise some power. Once he discovers he does not have any power, his behavior might improve.

Yeah it sounds a lot like breaking in a pet but I mean, he’s two. He’s not capable of understanding why he needs to be good yet, just that he needs to obey you. Period.
 
I truly believe that since you have stated that you had an abusive childhood, you should not spank (hope that I’m not offending)

As for time outs–where are you putting him? He needs to get placed somewhere he cannot get out. A crib, a playpen. Then you leave for how long his time outs are.

At two, avoid activities that cause him to become a terror. If he hit kids at the park, then no park until he can go without being a bully. Let him run around in your yard (assuming you have a yard) until he can play with others. 2 year olds don’t really play with others yet.

I really believe smacking him when he hits reinforces “hitting is ok”

How does he treat the nanny? Is he hitting her as well?

As for the comments by relatives, ignore them and chanel your inner mother bear. He’s a 2 year old* infant*. Don’t allow anyone to label him a problem child. He’s two. They have the phrase terrible 2’s for that reason.
 
Oh jeez, I forgot all about the OP’s background. Yeah…

You’d be best off following Mary Gail’s advice. Put him in a place he can’t escape. Then put a timer on for two minutes (or whatever, but we do time-outs for the age of the kid. So my son gets four minutes and my daughter gets three). He gets out then he gets to replay the whole time-out. And don’t talk to him about it after explaining it the first couple of times. Just pick him up, plunk him down, reset the timer and go.
 
The_Bucket said:
You can’t strike out of anger. Ever. Nor can you teach a child that he can’t hit by hitting him.

I’m not an anti-spanking parent. I give my kids the old swat on the backside when they earn it. But it’s never accompanied by threats or yelling or anything of the kind. It’s deliberate, it’s followed up by a time-out and then that’s followed up by an apology with hugs.

Spanking in our family is a way of demonstrating the severity of the situation. I never strike with enough force to hurt. Never, ever. That’s not helpful at all. And when there is fighting or defiant behavior physically, I refrain from spanking. Can’t reinforce not hitting by hitting as I said before. They get a doubly-sized timeout and have to reconcile with the parent or sibling before they can do anything else.

Some kids are going to be extremely trying. But at two I think there are ways to demonstrate that you and dad are always going to win and he is never going to win. Do the absolute best you can not to communicate with him when he is defiant. Just plunk him down in his time-out spot. He gets up, you grab him and plunk him down again. Don’t say a single word. That’s what he wants. He wants to try to exercise some power. Once he discovers he does not have any power, his behavior might improve.

Yeah it sounds a lot like breaking in a pet but I mean, he’s two. He’s not capable of understanding why he needs to be good yet, just that he needs to obey you. Period.
Click to expand...
I’d like to clarify.

I do not strike my child in anger.
 
My childhood is a non issue. I do not spank in anger and it’s not inappropriate.

I’m ok with spanking now. I realize that sometimes it’s necessary.

My son was agressive and violent even before me or my husband began a swat on the bum (which was recent).
 
The_Bucket said:
Oh jeez, I forgot all about the OP’s background. Yeah…

You’d be best off following Mary Gail’s advice. Put him in a place he can’t escape. Then put a timer on for two minutes (or whatever, but we do time-outs for the age of the kid. So my son gets four minutes and my daughter gets three). He gets out then he gets to replay the whole time-out. And don’t talk to him about it after explaining it the first couple of times. Just pick him up, plunk him down, reset the timer and go.
Click to expand...
As soon as he comes out of his time out, he hits someone again. Then I repeat sometimes for an entire day.
 
Serap said:
As soon as he comes out of his time out, he hits someone again. Then I repeat sometimes for an entire day.
Click to expand...
Oy yeah… I mean… that’s a terrible two for you. At least up to point. For the whole day? I dunno what’s up with that. I assume you’ve tried redirecting him immediately after the timeout?

But I didn’t mean to disparage you in any way. I did not assume you struck out of anger; I was more setting a ground rule as someone that does spank versus someone like you who never did it until now.
 
ps…sorry if my tone sucks. I’m very grumpy today. My son hit his sister at the zoo yesterday and he refused to go into a timeout (when I tried to discipline him). He began hitting me and kicking me at the zoo. I got frustrated and gave up after 15 min of him not going into a timeout and him kicking me. It was embarrassing.

My husband then picked him up while he was screaming. My son began hitting him and my husband slapped his hand. Then my husband put him in the wagon and he refused to stay in it. My husband was about to lose his temper, so I took over. My son tried to run away and I grabbed him and then my son began hitting me, so I slapped his hand back each time he hit me. After my husband composed himself, he then picked up our son while he was screaming. We walked in the rain storm b/c we were so embarrassed. We were both soaked and tired. Our daughter was also soaked as she was holding my hand while we were walking. We found a make-shift shelter and waited.

Eventually, he calmed down and my husband and I were exhausted. It lasted an entire hour in public at the zoo. We couldnt’ go to the car b/c it was also in the middle of a rain storm and it was too far for my daughter to walk in pouring rain.

I was so smug with my daughter b/c she was easy to discipline. I was anti-spanking and thought I was the poster parent. Joke was on me when my son was born. It’s so easy to judge other parents until you have a difficult child yourself. Then you realize just how difficult it really is.

IMO, I think my son was getting tired and we should have gone home b4 the meltdown occured. My DH has a tendency to say, “let’s just go and see the elephants and then we’ll go home.” Then the elephants turn into seeing the lions too, etc.

I know better with my son. I guess it’s a learning experience.

I do think he’s normal developmentally. I don’t suspect any sensory issues or verbal issues as his language is great. I think he’s just a very sensitive guy who is a lot of work. I just worry that he’ll end up having behaviour problems later on.
 
The_Bucket said:
Oy yeah… I mean… that’s a terrible two for you. At least up to point. For the whole day? I dunno what’s up with that. I assume you’ve tried redirecting him immediately after the timeout?

But I didn’t mean to disparage you in any way. I did not assume you struck out of anger; I was more setting a ground rule as someone that does spank versus someone like you who never did it until now.
Click to expand...
Thanks. My attitude sucks today. I’m worn out a bit today. Both my kids have pick eye as well 😦

Well, I may be exaggerating…not the whole day, but it seems like it…KWIM? He’s such a difficult temperament. I’m so frustrated. The last 2.5 years have been hell for me. I sometimes wish I never had my son bc life would be so much easier. I love him to death and he receives tons of hugs and positive feedback from me…don’t get me wrong. I give him hugs and kisses everyday and I tell him he’s a good boy. I’m a good mom to him, but I can’t help, but wonder what I’m doing wrong bc he’s so temperamental.

It’s like he’s possessed when he’s having a tantrum.

20 years from now I’ll be saying, “If he was our first kid, he would have been our only kid!!!”
 
As a man who struggles with anger due to personal failings, yes I do know what you mean. My wife has oodles of patience but I had probably the usual amount. Got way too short-tempered for awhile but I find it returning.

The thing to remember is that sometimes kids are just going to be like this. Or maybe you’re in a more severe situation and you should have him checked out medically; not psychologically but medically. Make sure you cross anything nefarious in his brain or acid reflux or something off the list as causing him to be constantly grumpy.

Maybe another child would help him learn how to be a good big brother? I dunno. My wife seems to fancy that solution whenever our kids act up and she thinks they need greater responsibility…
 
The_Bucket said:
As a man who struggles with anger due to personal failings, yes I do know what you mean. My wife has oodles of patience but I had probably the usual amount. Got way too short-tempered for awhile but I find it returning.

The thing to remember is that sometimes kids are just going to be like this. Or maybe you’re in a more severe situation and you should have him checked out medically; not psychologically but medically. Make sure you cross anything nefarious in his brain or acid reflux or something off the list as causing him to be constantly grumpy.

Maybe another child would help him learn how to be a good big brother? I dunno. My wife seems to fancy that solution whenever our kids act up and she thinks they need greater responsibility…
Click to expand...
or maybe mommy (me) needs to be more patient and understand that some kids are just more temperamental than others.

I feel like I’m a pitbull whisperer!!
 
rewinding the zoo episode, what do you think caused the meltdown? Was he tired? You mentioned putting him in a wagon. What about a stroller?

My son is 3 and truthfully, a day at the zoo with him walking would tire him quickly, he goes in a stroller. My DH took my oldest to the zoo when he was about 4 without a stroller. He then had to carry him because he fell asleep.

A long zoo trip is a lot for a two year old. Maybe smaller, shorter activites that don’t trigger his frustration.

Ni Hao Kai-lan (the kids show) has a little song, “When you get mad, you use your words and you don’t hit”
 
I raised an ADHD son. This behavior you describe is similar, though I don’t think my son was so big on hitting adults, but the fights between siblings was amazing!
I have never been anti spanking, but rarely spanked my children.

The first thing I would do is take your son in for a visit to the doctor. I’d let them take a look and draw some blood for blood tests etc. Eliminate the possibility that something physical is causing this behavior.

Does your son act this way with other care givers? His grandparents, uncles and aunts, day care etc. ? Or when he’s away from his sister? When he’s alone with one on one time with one parent?

It’s very difficult when a child acts out in public. When my son would do this, I simply picked him up and carried him to the car and let his sibling and father continue with what we were doing. He lost the privilege of doing whatever it was that we were doing. If it was in a restaurant, we sat in the car while everyone else finished their meal in peace. If we’d been in a zoo, we’d have sat in the car while everyone else enjoyed the day. Honestly, we didn’t have to do this more than once or twice and a “do you want to go and sit in the car” would make him think about behaving. Not saying that he was perfect, but it helped. He was a real challenge to raise, and is still a bit of a challenge as an adult 🙂

Good luck!
 
gh4 said:
I raised an ADHD son. This behavior you describe is similar, though I don’t think my son was so big on hitting adults, but the fights between siblings was amazing!
I have never been anti spanking, but rarely spanked my children.

The first thing I would do is take your son in for a visit to the doctor. I’d let them take a look and draw some blood for blood tests etc. Eliminate the possibility that something physical is causing this behavior.

Does your son act this way with other care givers? His grandparents, uncles and aunts, day care etc. ? Or when he’s away from his sister? When he’s alone with one on one time with one parent?

It’s very difficult when a child acts out in public. When my son would do this, I simply picked him up and carried him to the car and let his sibling and father continue with what we were doing. He lost the privilege of doing whatever it was that we were doing. If it was in a restaurant, we sat in the car while everyone else finished their meal in peace. If we’d been in a zoo, we’d have sat in the car while everyone else enjoyed the day. Honestly, we didn’t have to do this more than once or twice and a “do you want to go and sit in the car” would make him think about behaving. Not saying that he was perfect, but it helped. He was a real challenge to raise, and is still a bit of a challenge as an adult 🙂

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Great ideas. Thanks so so much!!! This is helpful. I could do this b/c I don’t want my daughter to be punished just bc her brother is acting up. She should continue to have a good time. I could take him to the car.

Yes, he does hit our live-in nanny. God bless her b/c she is very patient with our son. She is also dedicated to my kids. I"m extremely blessed. She is lovely. My nanny gives him time outs as well.

I only want to use a bum or wrist swat in extreme situations as a last resort. I will book a visit to his doctor to rule out any allergies.
 
Okay, from a mom of a “perfect” 1st kid and a “challenging” 2nd kid…

You do need to go to the pediatrician just to rule out other issues. He may have suggestions for you, and he can do some testing to ease your mind about things.

Slapping a 2 year old back when he hits isn’t getting you anywhere. I know it’s frustrating as heck, but you’re not getting through to him, only sending him the message that hitting is what people do. Right now, he needs to know that not only can HE not hit others, but others do not hit back. You know I am not anti-spanking, but I do believe that spanking should only be done for outright defiance, and I don’t believe this qualifies. Even if it does, since hitting is the behavior you want to stop, you are automatically prevented from using it as a deterrent.

Remember this:

H - Hungry
A - Angry
L - Lonely
T - Tired.

If the misbehavior is caused by any of these conditions, or all of them, DO NOT discipline but solve the problem first. Apply this to yourself as well. If you are hungry, angry, lonely, or tired yourself, or embarrassed, you are not going to be able to think clearly and be objective enough to see what your son needs.

The zoo trip. He probably had enough stimulation within the first 20 minutes and was overloaded from then on. 2 year olds in general really can’t absorb a lot and some can’t tolerate the stimulation of sights, sounds, crowds, smells, etc. and they get frustrated and start to melt down. You said you don’t think he has sensory issues? How could you tell, since you aren’t inside his head? And it doesn’t have to be sensory issues, he could just have an introverted temperament that means crowds are never going to be this thing. Was it hot too? Did he have any sweet drinks or snacks? Was his usual schedule of eating or naps disrupted? So much to think about.

Another poster asked how he is doing with the nanny. Do you have nanny cams up? I recommend that. They are not expensive these days.

You are going to have to rachet up your parenting skills for this little guy. You’re frustrated because right now, you don’t have the tools to deal with him effectively, but you are going to have to acquire more. Like you would at work, when you are given a task that you really aren’t qualified for, you just have to grab every resource you can and knuckle down and do the job. He needs you to be his rock. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be! And, it is a balancing act between meeting his needs and shaping the entire family around him - that’s also a bad idea. I probably did a little too much of that because my son was SO unpleasant and difficult when he didn’t get his way. He’s very strong-willed, even to this day, and sometimes I did give in and give up. Wrong thing to do.

Talk to your husband and make sure you are on the same wavelength for discipline. Also make sure that Daddy and son get some good time together when your son isn’t being a brat. Make sure they have some things they can do as father and son as time goes by. Right now, with your son only being 2, there won’t be much, but keep thinking about that and planning for it.

More later as I think about it.
 
Serap said:
I have to fight with my son everyday. He hits his sister and I fight with him for 15 minutes getting him to stay in his time out. Then he starts hitting me too. He’s very defiant and will not listen to anything I tell him. He has a terrible temper.

He gets really mad at me and begins to hit and kick me and that’s when he gets a smack from me. No matter what I do, he continues to hit me, kick me and hit and kick his sister. He hits his dad as well and his dad also recently begun hitting his hand or bum (just in the past week).

My husband and I are at wits end. We are tired of relatives saying he’s bad, violent, aggressive, etc. He also hits kids at the park.

Time outs do not work, so anti-spanking people, please don’t tell me how great time outs are b/c they are not working.

I would like some constructive feedback on how to discipline my very difficult child b/c both me and my husband are at wits end. My son’s behaviour really angers me and I’m so sick and tired of hearing negative comments about him.
Click to expand...
Parenthood is a learning experience, like any other. Here is what I learned to do, in case it can be any help.

When my children hit the “terrible twos” I would gently, but firmly, hold them absolutely still in my own lap when they acted out. Sometimes, I’d sing a soothing song (e.g. “Hail Mary, Gentle Woman”). Often, when they had calmed down, we would have to lead them through their request (2-year-olds often act out when they have a request but struggle to formulate the words). It was very common that the dialog would go something like this:

“Say: Daddy…”
Daddy…
“may I…”
may I…
“have…”
have…
“a cookie?”
cookie? (kids miss out on a lot of grammar - now’s not the time to fix it)

Today they are 4 and 7. Not a week goes by when someone doesn’t comment on their exemplary behavior.
 
Start with this general rule: Much needless parental frustration comes from parental expectations that problems are not going to arise. If you expect problems and expect that it is your job as a parent to deal with them, if you re-define what it means to have a parenting strategy that “works”–hint: something that extinguishes bad behavior entirely is not a realistic definition!–you will be much less frustrated.

First off, then, realize that there may be nothing, abusive or not, that will make him behave all of time right now (or ever). He may not have the skills to do it yet. This isn’t just a disciplining job; it is a coaching job. Give up the idea that you can force him to stop picking fights. Rather, resign yourself to the fact that he has free will and can decide to pick fights, and decide how you are going to handle it when he does.

On that account, whatever you do, whatever techniques you use, you need to be the coach, not the adversary. A coach is on the athlete’s side; you don’t “beat” your coach by failing to meet his expectations. You win together by succeeding. That is the atmosphere you want to work this out on. If you’re going to use corporal punishment, use it like a horse-trainer would, in a measure and very predictable way, and as a reminder more than as a punishment. More than anything, keep the atmosphere so that your son knows you are easy to please, even if you can’t be entirely satisfied.

From my successes, I would advise this: Keep him physically in the best shape to succeed. Do not let him get too hungry or too tired, and if he does get that way, keep him away from everybody else. If he does not have the physical resources to restrain himself, cancel all his appointments. Otherwise, he will get practice in bad behavior because he practices behavior when bad is all he has. You do not want that.

From my failures, I would advise this: Do not give “first chances”, let alone “second chances”. There should be some little penalty for transgressions every time. Small, because you may have to repeat them many times a day, but don’t let them get the idea that there is an “allowed” number of times for any but really honest mistakes. Hitting is not a mistake, because it is never allowed.

The other thing coaches do is to be positive…not by over-the-top praise, but just by positive interactions that knit a positive connection to the “athlete” and feed a desire to please and a belief in the athlete’s ability to please the coach. I cannot emphasize this too strongly: if the child believes it is not in his power to make you happy, then he’s going to do what is in his power, which is to make you mad.

Finally, give yourself these things:

Do not threaten any punishment that you can’t deliver

Always give yourself room to make things better or worse, depending on your child’s choices, so the child will not get to the point where he’ll think “I’m getting hung, so I may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb”.

Give yourself an avenue to get him away from other people. There is no shame in that. The truth is, people think a lot of parents who have a zero tolerance policy on mistreating other people. The first time he hits at the park in the future, he goes home, and the next time the family goes to the park, he stays home.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea: Be a coach, and choose the field of play so that he always has an opportunity to win and you are never going to lose. Then you can win together. That’s the goal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top