I was anti-spanking until my son hit age 2

[EasterJoy]

The other thing I thought of is this: pointedly have some means or ritual of reconciliation, something that says, “whew, scary bad scene, but we are going to declare it all over and we’re going to decide to be good with each other again.” This is something you go for after his point of return has passed, when he’s really in a deep hole. I mean when he deserves to be in time-out until he’s fifteen.

Sometimes your child is going to collapse into a behavioral death spiral that he can’t get out of. He will simply have invested too much to be the person making a bid for peace; he won’t be able to bring himself to put himself on the line only to get his much-deserved rejection. At some point, you will want to come to him with a chance to let it all go, hit re-set, and come back into the fold in good graces based only on contrition and a firm purpose of amendment. That is invaluable. A penance as a show of good faith is a good thing, but it is good to do it together. It lets him know that you are on his side and have no interest in holding his bad behavior over his head, but only to get him to renounce it in the future. I don’t think I need to point out what this teaches him, in terms of the spiritual life. At some point, he will learn to “come to his sense” as the Prodigal Son story puts it, and ask for a “re-set” himself, but that will be down the line.

This is not you begging him to come back, though. You are offering good terms, you are offering forgiveness to the contrite, but he still has to surrender without any conditions of his own. If he isn’t willing to lay down arms, just shrug and let him be.

 

[Sharen]

As others have suggested in this thread and others, please take your son for an evaluation.

It does sound like he has sensory and/or neurological differences. It is better to do this sooner than later. You don’t have the relationship you would like to have with your son and it hasn’t gotten any better. I’m fairly certain that you son has special needs of some sort and you would qualify for behavioral support, where therapists come to your house and help you develop the tools to interact with your son effectively.( i’m not anti-spanking, but it doesn’t sound like it is working ) Occupational therapy would help with his sensory processing. What you have been describing in this and previous posts does not sound like simple misbehavior or typical development to me. It doesn’t have to be like this.You need support. Please speak to your pediatrician today.

You and your family are in my prayers.

 

[EasterJoy]

As others have suggested in this thread and others, please take your son for an evaluation.

It does sound like he has sensory and/or neurological differences. It is better to do this sooner than later. You don’t have the relationship you would like to have with your son and it hasn’t gotten any better. I’m fairly certain that you son has special needs of some sort and you would qualify for behavioral support, where therapists come to your house and help you develop the tools to interact with your son effectively.( i’m not anti-spanking, but it doesn’t sound like it is working ) Occupational therapy would help with his sensory processing. What you have been describing in this and previous posts does not sound like simple misbehavior or typical development to me. It doesn’t have to be like this.You need support. Please speak to your pediatrician today.

You and your family are in my prayers.

This is a good idea. It would help to keep a log of his eating, sleeping, activities, and behaviors over the course of time between now and the appointment. The more information you give the person evaluating him, the better. You may even see a pattern yourself that suggests something to try.

It is still possible, though, that his is at his rope’s end for reasons that can be remedied without medical intervention. Besides, even if medical intervention is needed, the everyday things that tend to make matters better or worse will need to be identified and made use of. That is always part of the equation.

 

[SonCatcher]

As others have suggested in this thread and others, please take your son for an evaluation.

It does sound like he has sensory and/or neurological differences…

He’s TWO (2)!

Two-year-olds are notoriously difficult and have been for generations. They grow out of it 99% of the time. If he were 4 and still acting like this, I’d see reason for concern. As it is, everything seems “normal”.

Each child is different. If the first one is relatively compliant, a later child who acts out will catch his parents especially off guard.

I would recommend the parents meet with a family counselor before getting a medical evaluation.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Maybe he could be tested for food sensitivities; this is what my parents did with me. They found out that I was allergic to basics such as milk, wheat, and especially corn; if I had anything with corn syrup, my brain swelled. I lost control of my behavior and things could become scary. My :twocents:

 

[EasterJoy]

He’s TWO (2)!

Two-year-olds are notoriously difficult and have been for generations. They grow out of it 99% of the time. If he were 4 and still acting like this, I’d see reason for concern. As it is, everything seems “normal”.

Each child is different. If the first one is relatively compliant, a later child who acts out will catch his parents especially off guard.

I would recommend the parents meet with a family counselor before getting a medical evaluation.

Notoriously difficult and physically aggressive towards everybody are not the same thing. Yes, he could be totally normal, but if he’s not, why make him suffer by putting him in situations he cannot hope to handle for another two years before you will believe he has a problem? It is not as if a child who is hitting everybody is himself a happy kid who is blithely enjoying life, oblivious to the enmity between him and everyone else in his life. If this is all-day-every-day behavior, this kid is living life on the battle field. That is no way for anybody to live, not him, not his sibling, not his parents. Two more years of that could make the issue harder to address than it needed to have been, and that is two years down the tubes for his poor family.

I think if you go to a typical pediatrician, they will ask some screening questions to rule out typical problems–that is, is this recent or long-standing, does it happen all of the time or does he have “arsenic hours” when he’s really bad and other times when he’s fine, what kind of situation seem to set him off, etc.-- will be asked, and after that multiple options will be looked at. The more detail you have to supply, the better, but it is something worth seeing a professional about if you can’t see any patterns that you can deal with yourself.

 

[GracedUpon]

Maybe he could be tested for food sensitivities; this is what my parents did with me. They found out that I was allergic to basics such as milk, wheat, and especially corn; if I had anything with corn syrup, my brain swelled. I lost control of my behavior and things could become scary. My :twocents:

This. Serap, am I remembering correctly that your son had a milk intolerance as an infant? He was very colicky and cutting out dairy helped to an extent, correct? It’s possible he still has a milk intolerance (and possibly other foods as well–gluten is another huge trigger for behavioral issues), and they are just showing themselves as behavioral issues, rather than medical. It’s pretty common for older children and adults to have undiagnosed food allergies and intolerances, because they don’t present in the way we expect.

 

[MomaMary8]

I have to fight with my son everyday. He hits his sister and I fight with him for 15 minutes getting him to stay in his time out. Then he starts hitting me too. He’s very defiant and will not listen to anything I tell him. He has a terrible temper.

I would like some constructive feedback on how to discipline my very difficult child b/c both me and my husband are at wits end. ** My son’s behaviour really angers me and I’m so sick and tired of hearing negative comments about him**.

Raising children can be emotional but it should never color the way you discipline! You must use your logic and reasoning to correct behavior

Thanks. My attitude sucks today. I’m worn out a bit today. Both my kids have pick eye as well

Yes, I agree. Your attitude suchs

Well, I may be exaggerating…not the whole day, but it seems like it…KWIM? He’s such a difficult temperament. I’m so frustrated. The last 2.5 years have been hell for me. I sometimes wish I never had my son bc life would be so much easier. I love him to death and he receives tons of hugs and positive feedback from me…don’t get me wrong. I give him hugs and kisses everyday and I tell him he’s a good boy. I’m a good mom to him, but I can’t help, but wonder what I’m doing wrong bc he’s so temperamental.
I’m glad you realize that your behavior needs to be corrected in order to correct his behavior. This is a very important realization!!
It’s like he’s possessed when he’s having a tantrum.

20 years from now I’ll be saying, "If he was our first kid, he would have been our only kid!!!"

May God forbid! I hope you never utter those words again!

or maybe mommy (me) needs to be more patient and understand that some kids are just more temperamental than others.

I feel like I’m a** pitbull whisperer!**!

I am saddened by the way you are talking about your son. I will say a prayer for you today. You are imposing personality traits upon him for normal misbehavior of an undisciplined 2 year old. You are right that your attitude needs to change and you must realize that you have a job to do. That is to raise a child that will someday reach heaven. You are not raising a show piece to be bragged about. You are not raising a model child to show off your parenting skills. You have been given a child that is on earth to humble you and teach you how to fully give yourself to another. This is it. This is your humbling cross. Pick it up and take the looks from others. You are there for your child, not for the praises of others.

I’m going to compose my parenting thoughts and give you a few pointers. May I PM you? It may be easier for me as I have a full plate at home. I am not trying to be mean, but just direct. I realize you never had positive parenting role models and you are in need of parenting advice. I will do my best as a mother of 10, and one with a background in social sciences that qualify me to counsel (although I never took an official counseling position as I became a mother early in life.) My first bit of advice is to realize that your son is not a pitbull, but a child in need of love based discipline. He does not need anger-motivated discipline or reactive discipline.

God bless, Serap. I’m not trying to beat you up, but want to honestly help you. I’ll send you a PM as soon as I can…baby needs to be nursed.

 

[SonCatcher]

Notoriously difficult and physically aggressive towards everybody are not the same thing. Yes, he could be totally normal, but if he’s not, why make him suffer by putting him in situations he cannot hope to handle for another two years before you will believe he has a problem? It is not as if a child who is hitting everybody is himself a happy kid who is blithely enjoying life, oblivious to the enmity between him and everyone else in his life. If this is all-day-every-day behavior, this kid is living life on the battle field. That is no way for anybody to live, not him, not his sibling, not his parents. Two more years of that could make the issue harder to address than it needed to have been, and that is two years down the tubes for his poor family.

I think if you go to a typical pediatrician, they will ask some screening questions to rule out typical problems–that is, is this recent or long-standing, does it happen all of the time or does he have “arsenic hours” when he’s really bad and other times when he’s fine, what kind of situation seem to set him off, etc.-- will be asked, and after that multiple options will be looked at. The more detail you have to supply, the better, but it is something worth seeing a professional about if you can’t see any patterns that you can deal with yourself.

Unfortunately, we really don’t have enough information to even determine whether the problem even is severe. The OP, I am sure, was channeling a lot of pent up frustration into her posts, herself (she posted twice about how grumpy she is).

The 95% of the time kids are angels, they can do no wrong in the eyes of their parents. But when they talk of the remaining 5% of the time, it sounds like a constant war zone. A public forum is not the place for a diagnosis nor has the OP given any indication that one may be necessary. Although her statement that it’s been difficult for most of her son’s life does indicate that she should have been quicker to respond.

(Serap, my nephew is my son’s age and would act out similarly for years, reportedly striking his parents and grandparents. Much of his difficulty is that the grandparents were his daytime caregivers and would never discipline him. Does your nanny discipline him? Did you have the same nanny since your daughter was small?)

 

[1ke]

Perhaps Dr. Ray’s book on discipline would help you if you don’t already have it. (Dr. Ray Guarendi). Also, I think MaryAnn Budnick’s book series “Raise Happy Children…” is quite good, particularly Raise Happy Children, Teach Them Virtue.

 

[Serap]

The other thing I thought of is this: pointedly have some means or ritual of reconciliation, something that says, “whew, scary bad scene, but we are going to declare it all over and we’re going to decide to be good with each other again.” This is something you go for after his point of return has passed, when he’s really in a deep hole. I mean when he deserves to be in time-out until he’s fifteen.

Sometimes your child is going to collapse into a behavioral death spiral that he can’t get out of. He will simply have invested too much to be the person making a bid for peace; he won’t be able to bring himself to put himself on the line only to get his much-deserved rejection. At some point, you will want to come to him with a chance to let it all go, hit re-set, and come back into the fold in good graces based only on contrition and a firm purpose of amendment. That is invaluable. A penance as a show of good faith is a good thing, but it is good to do it together. It lets him know that you are on his side and have no interest in holding his bad behavior over his head, but only to get him to renounce it in the future. I don’t think I need to point out what this teaches him, in terms of the spiritual life. At some point, he will learn to “come to his sense” as the Prodigal Son story puts it, and ask for a “re-set” himself, but that will be down the line.

This is not you begging him to come back, though. You are offering good terms, you are offering forgiveness to the contrite, but he still has to surrender without any conditions of his own. If he isn’t willing to lay down arms, just shrug and let him be.

great advice. I do take him with open arms after his meltdowns. I love him so much KWIM?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Unfortunately, we really don’t have enough information to even determine whether the problem even is severe. The OP, I am sure, was channeling a lot of pent up frustration into her posts, herself (she posted twice about how grumpy she is).

The 95% of the time kids are angels, they can do no wrong in the eyes of their parents. But when they talk of the remaining 5% of the time, it sounds like a constant war zone. A public forum is not the place for a diagnosis nor has the OP given any indication that one may be necessary. Although her statement that it’s been difficult for most of her son’s life does indicate that she should have been quicker to respond.

(Serap, my nephew is my son’s age and would act out similarly for years, reportedly striking his parents and grandparents. Much of his difficulty is that the grandparents were his daytime caregivers and would never discipline him. Does your nanny discipline him? Did you have the same nanny since your daughter was small?)

A very good point, and I think Serap has said that the nanny is very loving, perhaps TOO loving, and is not disciplining but giving in to everything this little guy wants. Which will turn him into a monster over time.

A lot for you to read and think about, Serap.

 

[Serap]

Okay, from a mom of a “perfect” 1st kid and a “challenging” 2nd kid…

You do need to go to the pediatrician just to rule out other issues. He may have suggestions for you, and he can do some testing to ease your mind about things.

Slapping a 2 year old back when he hits isn’t getting you anywhere. I know it’s frustrating as heck, but you’re not getting through to him, only sending him the message that hitting is what people do. Right now, he needs to know that not only can HE not hit others, but others do not hit back. You know I am not anti-spanking, but I do believe that spanking should only be done for outright defiance, and I don’t believe this qualifies. Even if it does, since hitting is the behavior you want to stop, you are automatically prevented from using it as a deterrent.

Remember this:

H - Hungry
A - Angry
L - Lonely
T - Tired.

If the misbehavior is caused by any of these conditions, or all of them, DO NOT discipline but solve the problem first. Apply this to yourself as well. If you are hungry, angry, lonely, or tired yourself, or embarrassed, you are not going to be able to think clearly and be objective enough to see what your son needs.

The zoo trip. He probably had enough stimulation within the first 20 minutes and was overloaded from then on. 2 year olds in general really can’t absorb a lot and some can’t tolerate the stimulation of sights, sounds, crowds, smells, etc. and they get frustrated and start to melt down. You said you don’t think he has sensory issues? How could you tell, since you aren’t inside his head? And it doesn’t have to be sensory issues, he could just have an introverted temperament that means crowds are never going to be this thing. Was it hot too? Did he have any sweet drinks or snacks? Was his usual schedule of eating or naps disrupted? So much to think about.

Another poster asked how he is doing with the nanny. Do you have nanny cams up? I recommend that. They are not expensive these days.

You are going to have to rachet up your parenting skills for this little guy. You’re frustrated because right now, you don’t have the tools to deal with him effectively, but you are going to have to acquire more. Like you would at work, when you are given a task that you really aren’t qualified for, you just have to grab every resource you can and knuckle down and do the job. He needs you to be his rock. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be! And, it is a balancing act between meeting his needs and shaping the entire family around him - that’s also a bad idea. I probably did a little too much of that because my son was SO unpleasant and difficult when he didn’t get his way. He’s very strong-willed, even to this day, and sometimes I did give in and give up. Wrong thing to do.

Talk to your husband and make sure you are on the same wavelength for discipline. Also make sure that Daddy and son get some good time together when your son isn’t being a brat. Make sure they have some things they can do as father and son as time goes by. Right now, with your son only being 2, there won’t be much, but keep thinking about that and planning for it.

More later as I think about it.

thanks!!!

 

[Serap]

A very good point, and I think Serap has said that the nanny is very loving, perhaps TOO loving, and is not disciplining but giving in to everything this little guy wants. Which will turn him into a monster over time.

A lot for you to read and think about, Serap.

You are right and she’s amazing, but not disciplinary enough. I have her for one more year.

 

[Serap]

This. Serap, am I remembering correctly that your son had a milk intolerance as an infant? He was very colicky and cutting out dairy helped to an extent, correct? It’s possible he still has a milk intolerance (and possibly other foods as well–gluten is another huge trigger for behavioral issues), and they are just showing themselves as behavioral issues, rather than medical. It’s pretty common for older children and adults to have undiagnosed food allergies and intolerances, because they don’t present in the way we expect.

I think it’s time to check. I don’t want anything to be wrong with him. I’m scared.

 

[Serap]

Raising children can be emotional but it should never color the way you discipline! You must use your logic and reasoning to correct behavior

May God forbid! I hope you never utter those words again!

I am saddened by the way you are talking about your son. I will say a prayer for you today. You are imposing personality traits upon him for normal misbehavior of an undisciplined 2 year old. You are right that your attitude needs to change and you must realize that you have a job to do. That is to raise a child that will someday reach heaven. You are not raising a show piece to be bragged about. You are not raising a model child to show off your parenting skills. You have been given a child that is on earth to humble you and teach you how to fully give yourself to another. This is it. This is your humbling cross. Pick it up and take the looks from others. You are there for your child, not for the praises of others.

I’m going to compose my parenting thoughts and give you a few pointers. May I PM you? It may be easier for me as I have a full plate at home. I am not trying to be mean, but just direct. I realize you never had positive parenting role models and you are in need of parenting advice. I will do my best as a mother of 10, and one with a background in social sciences that qualify me to counsel (although I never took an official counseling position as I became a mother early in life.) My first bit of advice is to realize that your son is not a pitbull, but a child in need of love based discipline. He does not need anger-motivated discipline or reactive discipline.

God bless, Serap. I’m not trying to beat you up, but want to honestly help you. I’ll send you a PM as soon as I can…baby needs to be nursed.

God Bless you. Sure PM me

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t think hitting him is the solution to get him to stop hitting other people

Spanking is spanking not hitting.

 

[Bookcat]

I have to fight with my son everyday. He hits his sister and I fight with him for 15 minutes getting him to stay in his time out. Then he starts hitting me too. He’s very defiant and will not listen to anything I tell him. He has a terrible temper.

He gets really mad at me and begins to hit and kick me and that’s when he gets a smack from me. No matter what I do, he continues to hit me, kick me and hit and kick his sister. He hits his dad as well and his dad also recently begun hitting his hand or bum (just in the past week).

My husband and I are at wits end. We are tired of relatives saying he’s bad, violent, aggressive, etc. He also hits kids at the park.

Time outs do not work, so anti-spanking people, please don’t tell me how great time outs are b/c they are not working.

I would like some constructive feedback on how to discipline my very difficult child b/c both me and my husband are at wits end. My son’s behaviour really angers me and I’m so sick and tired of hearing negative comments about him.

I know there are various schools of thought out there and recent announcements of studies etc.

But search for and read the paper by Dr. Richard Cross (I do not have the link on hand…my browser died that may have had it). He takes an in depth look at the question. It is from some years ago but he was one of my professors at Steubenville (not sure where he moved too now) and he was quite into the science behind it…it is worth a read in your considerations.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think it’s time to check. I don’t want anything to be wrong with him. I’m scared.

Better you should find out sooner than later. Bust through that denial and take him to the doctor for a thorough evaluation. Tell the doctor EVERYTHING, every last concern you have. Don’t worry that the doctor will think you are a crazy mom. Just tell him everything that has made you wonder or worry as your son has grown. The language delay is one important element. The tantrums and hitting are other important pieces.

Whatever it is, you can handle it with God’s help. Even if it’s nothing, and your son just needs a different plan of discipline, you can do it. Hang in there, we’re all praying for you!

:grouphug:

 

[Serap]

I know there are various schools of thought out there and recent announcements of studies etc.

But search for and read the paper by Dr. Richard Cross (I do not have the link on hand…my browser died that may have had it). He takes an in depth look at the question. It is from some years ago but he was one of my professors at Steubenville (not sure where he moved too now) and he was quite into the science behind it…it is worth a read in your considerations.

Thanks will do!