I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[fbl9]

If that’s an answer, forgive me; I don’t understand it.

if by one’s words (actions) they don’t honor the Son then they are condemned…by beleiving Him we profess Him by words and thus by our words(actions)we pass into life be Justified…even you can play dumb with the best…you plainly saw how the verse laid onto each other and actually complimented each and not contradicted as you implied…

 

[fbl9]

I have an idea of why you think Rom 8:23ff doesn’t line up with what I’m saying, and it probably has to do with hope; however, rather than making me guess what point you’re driving at, will you explain why you think that passage is against me?

you claim to have assurance of salvation,thus you “see” your salvation so what is there to hope for then?and you can not say the salvation of others cause you beleive that those who will beleive will do so…not by your word or anyone else"s…which is quite unlike our Lord’s prayer that “they all be one,…those who by thier word are to believe”

 

[Carolyn_H]

The only “rituals” that Catholics believe always convey grace are the sacraments, which we can surely all agree are not man-made.

Catholics also believe in “sacramentals,” but these are simply means that increase one’s devotion–they do not intrinsically convey grace, as far as I understand Catholic theology.

Your objection may well apply to indulgences–I’m not going to defend Catholics on this one, but at least they don’t think indulgences have anything to do with their eternal salvation.

Edwin

Yes they do…that is why they pay monks and nuns to pray for them.

 

[Gamera]

Yes they do…that is why they pay monks and nuns to pray for them.

LOL. What?

 

[sandusky]

banjo:

Thank you for a complete reply. I was not on the internet yesterday and only read you post after a full morning.

You’re welcome.

banjo:

On this point we disagree and I think this is so in part because of the different conclusions we draw from Ez 18 and, I’m sure, other Scriptural verses.
I agree that Ezekiel is refuting the notion that children are not punished for the sins of the parents. However, I believe that this chapter does have eternal implications. Both the just and the wicked will die a physical death but the contrast of the wicked turning from sin and gaining life and the righteous turning from righteousness and suffering death implies a death other than the physical death both will undergo. Verses 31-32 indicate that God is more eager to pardon the repentant sinner than he is to punish the unrepentant one, but repentance is necessary for no sinner is free from suffering the chastisement of God.

I included an explanation of the eternal implications, however, I agree, we’ll never agree on either the interpretation of the passage, or sequences of salvation, and the definitions of the words of salvation.

banjo:

This is possible only by the grace of God as St. Paul reminds us in 1 Cor 12ff “Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed….”

Actually, that’s 1 Cor 10:12; however, at the end of chapter 11, is a proof of the “eternal implications” I stated concerning the Ezekiel 18 passage—God physically kills the sinning believer, but he doesn’t lose salvation (1 Cor 11:29-32).

banjo:

St. Paul adds a caveat to Rm 8:30 in Rm 8:17, we must suffer with Christ in order to be glorified with him. That, however, had been discussed elsewhere and will probably continue to be discussed in the future.

That’s certainly my position. The believer will suffer for Christ, should it be determined that he will.

banjo:

If you mean each day we must take up our cross and follow Christ I agree. Personally, I make no judgments as to how well informed or uninformed you are. From your posts, I consider you to be an individual genuinely seeking salvation albeit your belief in how it is achieved differs in some respects from mine.

In order to take up the Cross of Christ in a meaningful way, one must first have put off the old man, and put on the new; therefore, I don’t find them to be the same thing, so we disagree.

banjo:

Key here is ‘those who fear him”. [Unlike Ps 36 Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes. For he flatters himself in his own eyes that his iniquity cannot be found out and hated. The words of his mouth are mischief and deceit].

One of the conditions of the New Covenant is a “fear of God” given so that the believer “will not turn from God.”**Jeremiah 32:40

“I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.**Those justified by God will not turn away from God because He has decreed their complete salvation and made provision for all its contingencies (Rom 8:29-39; cf Eph 1:3ff; Jer 32:40).

 

[benedictus2]

Those who adhere to sola scriptura; they all go back through the reformation to the apostles.

Not good enough because again you say THOSE.

**Again, THOSE IS NOT ONE. **

For goodness sakes, is ONE so hard to understand?

One is singular.THOSE is plural.

The ones you mention do not belong to ONE SINGLE CHURCH BUT SEVERAL CHURCHES.

SO FOR THE FIFTH TIME, WHICH ONE?

**And the one you select can probably be traced back to the Protestant Revolt, but how do you trace them back to the Apostles? **
Show us a clear timeline, event by event, person by person.

And it is interesting that you cannot say that your church is THE ONE TRUE Church of Christ.

So my other question again, if you can’t say that, then obviously, in your mind, it is NOT CHRIST’S ONE TRUE CHURCH.
So what are you doing there? If you love the Lord so much, wouldn’t you want to belong to His Church?

 

[churchcamefirst]

Yes they do…that is why they pay monks and nuns to pray for them.

Who pays monks and nuns? They work for Christ for nothing! Can you give up your life like them, obedient for Christ? They dedicate their whole lives for Christ, they live cloistered lives, can you?

 

[sandusky]

De Maria:

Have you confused me for a Protestant who takes the entire Bible literally?

Nope, I know your type, and I know why you won’t answer my question.

It’s been real. :tiphat:

 

[sandusky]

if by one’s words (actions) they don’t honor the Son then they are condemned…

What do you mean by that?

 

[sandusky]

you claim to have assurance of salvation,thus you “see” your salvation so what is there to hope for then?

Biblical hope is “confident” (cf Php 1:6).

My confident hope longs to be gone from this world.

 

[fbl9]

In order to take up the Cross of Christ in a meaningful way, one must first have put off the old man, and put on the new; therefore, I don’t find them to be the same thing, so we disagree.

“pick up your cross and follow Me”…in those days they that carried a cross were basically deadmen walking…so this to me says we are to follow Him unto death itself,also…so when you Sandusky put on the new man did you recognize yourself in the mirror …seriously though what does this new man look like,a proud peacock strutting around boosting God choose me to go to heaven?..this not meant as a personal detraction rather this is how the “doctrine” of assurance sounds to me…

 

[sandusky]

“pick up your cross and follow Me”…in those days they that carried a cross were basically deadmen walking…so this to me says we are to follow Him unto death itself,also…so when you Sandusky put on the new man did you recognize yourself in the mirror …seriously though what does this new man look like,a proud peacock strutting around boosting God choose me to go to heaven?..this not meant as a personal detraction rather this is how the “doctrine” of assurance sounds to me…

The message of the cross is foolishness, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense to the world, and that’s why it’s rejected.

 

[Carolyn_H]

Who pays monks and nuns? **They work for Christ for nothing! Can you give up your life like them, obedient for Christ? They dedicate their whole lives for Christ, they live cloistered lives, can you? **

You are ignorant! Why don’t you ask God about me before YOU Judge me!!! From what I have seen of Catholics on this sight…I thank God He made me Protestant.

 

[RobHom]

Yes they do…that is why they pay monks and nuns to pray for them.

I beg to differ. In my 58 years as a Catholic… I have never “paid” a Priest, Monk, or Nun to pray for me. I think you are getting your information from a very disingenuous source. Very “disingenuous” at that.

If you find us Catholics so “bad”…why are you here? Just curious.

Peace!

 

[Carolyn_H]

I came here to learn…Instead I am called a “Jehovah Witness” and get attacked for my form of praising Jesus!

I have learned enough about all of you! Thanks for the important lesson!

:sad_yes:

 

[benedictus2]

You are ignorant! Why don’t you ask God about me before YOU Judge me!!! From what I have seen of Catholics on this sight…I thank God He made me Protestant.

I doubt very much if it was God who made your Protestant.

Most like the other side who did that, wanting to draw as many people away from the Bride of Christ- the Catholic Church.

But God is all loving,He will always seek out those who’ve been led away.

 

[Gamera]

I beg to differ. In my 58 years as a Catholic… I have never “paid” a Priest, Monk, or Nun to pray for me. I think you are getting your information from a very disingenuous source. Very “disingenuous” at that…

I’m 43 and I’d never even heard that one before.

 

[RobHom]

I came here to learn…Instead I am called a “Jehovah Witness” and get attacked for my form of praising Jesus!

Carolyn, I’m sorry that you have been attacked, if that is how you feel. I haven’t been on the site for a few days now, and so I can honestly say that I was unaware that it happened.

Please accept my apology for my brethren who get a little carried away. It is not our way of doing things. Admittedly, some of us get defensive, and maybe even a little emotion driven…but then we are human.

I have learned enough about all of you! Thanks for the important lesson!

Please don’t make the mistake that others have, including some Catholics…who judge all harshly by the acts of the few.

Some of us are really OK people…

 

[Gamera]

I came here to learn…Instead I am called a “Jehovah Witness” and get attacked for my form of praising Jesus!

I have learned enough about all of you! Thanks for the important lesson!

:sad_yes:

I agree with you that it isn’t proper for someone to insult your method of worship.

I’m not sure that that is the reason for the comment, though. I can’t imagine anyone here attacking you for being Protestant (you certainly aren’t the only Protestant on CAF) but rather, I think your comment about Catholics “paying” monks and nuns to pray for them was rather shocking to some, and probably triggered a lot of defensiveness. It’s a strange allegation ( we certainly don’t pay anyone to pray for us).

 

[Ignatius]

. May the Lord truly bless every one who is seeking to know him in truth.

Brother, when you the Church that Jesus founded, you separated yourself from Him. You cannot separate Jesus Christ and His Church. Come on home brother -youtube.com/watch?v=hl-08atFqzc.