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sandusky
Guest
You offer no explanation of those verses, but assume they support your position.
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jmcrae
Guest
Except that they won’t know that they are the Elect until after they have persevered until the end, and been obedient to all of God’s commandments, and avoided committing sin.
C
CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
It’s quite clear, but I’ll be glad to elaborate.You offer no explanation of those verses, but assume they support your position.
If we deny him, he will deny us. This applies to former believers as well as current non believers.
If we endure with him, we will reign with him. What if we don’t endure, will we still reign?
If we return to evil after being made free from the evil of the world by Jesus it will be worse than if we were never saved.
Jesus tells us that we must endure until the end and that ONLY those who do the will of the father will be saved.
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sandusky
Guest
But you’ve ignored the overarching truth of the trustworthiness of Christ, stated in v13:***If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.***Did you leave that out because you don’t like that truth?
Christ can’t deny Himself.
His elect are His Church, and His Church, is His Body, is HIMSELF.
C
CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
He will not deny himself. He will be faithful to us.
But:
1 Chronicles 28:9 “If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you leave Him, He will cast you off forever”.
Hebrews 10:26-27 “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?”
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sandusky
Guest
But what???
Either He’s faithful, as He says He is, or He’s not being truthful.
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sandusky
Guest
Again, you offer cherry-picked-out-of-context-verses, with no explanation.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
The meaning is clear, again.
You choose to believe the dogma of Calvin over the crystal clear words of scripture.
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jmcrae
Guest
Isn’t He being truthful when He says that the disobedient will be cast out, even if they were believers, before?
But the cause of them being cast out isn’t Him denying Himself, but them denying Him, and disobeying Him.
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Francesca24
Guest
Darling, this only shows how little you really knew Catholicism!!! As a 5-year old catholic child I cried my heart out for Jesus to come into my heart one day!!! He has been in my heart ever since, and the happiest day of my life was when I received my first communion!!! I am way into my adulthood now with grown up children and although sometimes over the years I have stumbled, He has never left me and is reigning even more vigorously in my life today thanks to my Catholic Church and the sacraments!!! I am very sorry that you were not able to see!!!
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fbl9
Guest
a prayer by Mr.John Calvin;;Prayer That We May Be Guided By God’s Word…Almighty God,You have borne witness by the Law and the Prophets to what is right,so that we live in obidence to Your will.You have also given us by Your gospel,a knowledge of perfect righteousness;;Ler us be governed by Your Spirit and give ourselves to you… us to be guided by Your Word…and deviate from it-niether to the right nor to the left.and to be taught by Your Word.to be truly obedient to You to the end of this life.Then we will reach the Heavenly rest obtained for us by the Blood of Your only Son…The<> and caps are mine, words are all the same…the word may conveys no assurance,fuller: what the Holy Spirit doesn’t give one the full knowledge? ,what do you need help for ?you have been choosen…never? sounds like the word of some one who knows they can lose the path…enable us…looks like some one who isn’t protected from falling into vainity(pride)…consent,implies one can choose not to be taught…may we prove;sounds like one has to prove they are worthy of heaven,smacks of works,not faith…to sum things up this prayer of Mr. Calvin’s reads like that of one who knows they are not"assured"
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cazayoux
Guest
I see you are still reading out of context … last part of paragraph 2009 is
Our merits are God’s gifts
That puts 2010 in context for you.
michel
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Pier
Guest
You can’t get much clearer than this. How/why are the words above overlooked? The Bible clearly says that those of us who have accepted salvation through Jesus should not get puffed up with pride, or we too, as the adopted, grafted-on branches of the olive tree, can be just as easily removed as the original branches (that shall be grafted back on, eventually) were.
Pride is not a good thing…
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Ronald_E
Guest
Jesus requires us to think deeply about each parable because it teaches us about The Kingdom of God. Therefore, the totality of God’s spoken word which is passed to us both in written and oral form must not be segregated but must be seen as a whole when we attempt to understand it. God is not divided.**In the context of LK 12:42-48
The Same set of circumstances.
**Two different attitudes.
Two different responses.
Two different outcomes.
One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.
It’s a parable; a didactic teaching, not a dogmatic teaching.
We must start from the foundation that God is Love and the mystery of His Kingdom is only revealed through our ever deepening understanding of His Love and acting through His Love which unites us to Him. Thus we become good and faithful servants.
There is no new revelation. There is only the deepening of our understanding of the infinite nature of God’s Love.
I see evidence of lack of love in the expression of our Catholic faith. Therefore, what is interpreted as disobedience in the catechism can only be rectified through Jesus and His Mother at the Cross.
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benedictus2
Guest
mikeledes said:***34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. ***
***35"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart." ***
Those are the words of Christ, not my own.
God Bless,
Michael
sandusky:
That’s works, and not grace.
The effects of replacement theology are evident almost 2,000 years after it was wrongly believed, and incorporated into the liturgy, worship and theology.
So what are we to make of you, who claim to believe in Christ, but refuse to believe in any of Christ’s words in the Bible that do not suit his own manufactured theology.
Hello, the lines that **mikeledes **quoted are from the Bible. Or don’t you have that one, in your Bible?
You believe in a Christ you have manufactured in your head.
You are shown a passage in the Bible and you dismiss it because it does not gel with your own preconceived belief.
Aaah yes, the magisterium that is Sandusky will alone l decide which part of the Bible is inspired.
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benedictus2
Guest
Hi Ronald,
You’re welcome
If there is anything that I wish I could help people realize is that GOD IS INDEED LOVE.
I grew up with an idea in my head that God is somehow condemning. When I was in my teens I hated Psalm 139 because I felt is spoke of a god that was intrusive and was always out to pick on my sins.
It wasn’t till later, on a retreat when I was mediatating on the story of the Prodigal Son, that God showed me the utter tenderness with which He loves me/us. I sobbed through the meditation at an experience which I could only describe as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
Now Psalm 139 is my favourite Psalm.
I pray that we will all gradually come to realize the depth of His Love for us; that the knowledge of His love will move from our heads into our hearts. That we may know it in our guts.
This I know. God does not love us because we are good. God loves us **into **goodness.
B
benedictus2
Guest
Refer my previous posts re your idea of a god who makes humans to damn them.
Aah typical Sandusky. When you can’t raise a good enough rebuttal, you bring in another topic to wiggle out of this one. Evade and confuse.I accept Him; I’m not the one bowing down to Mary, and praying to dead people, and preaching a place called purgatory because His sacrifice isn’t enough—that would be you and your fellow Catholics.
True, your accept a Christ. But who do you really accept? Surely not the Christ of the Bible. As far as I know, He is a God of Love. Not quite the evil, psychopath of your construct.
As to Mary and purgatory, there are other threads on that subject in this forum. Hop on those ones.
That’s okay. It’s too late at night to explain that all again. If you don’t get it by now then I will let that pass.
Now this expression I have never heard before so if you’re trying to ridicule me, that wasn’t very effective because that all just went over my head. But I’ll try to find out what it means and be suitably angry later.
Re-read my entire post. Sure we believe in baptismal regeneration. Sure we believe in that you can choose to sin or not.
If you get my point, what I am saying is that because of this choice, the Catholic view is that we can choose to damn our selves.
But since you believe everything is already rigged from the beginning, damnation is not left to our pidly efforts since God has already pre-empted us and damned us before we could do it ourselves. Perhaps he thought we won’t do a good job of it, eh?
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Ronald_E
Guest
I know what you mean by the Prodigal Son. I love that I am one and that God gave me the freedom to reject Him or what I was taught about Him. Then while I was away He began to teach me through other means about love and loss of love. As I began to understand what is not Love and attempted to eliminate in me the stumbling blocks to my ability to love more deeply I began to realize that it was impossible to remove these blocks through my own effort. I meditated and ran and tried to be a good man and I always felt that I was never good enough.Hi Ronald,
You’re welcome
If there is anything that I wish I could help people realize is that GOD IS INDEED LOVE.
I grew up with an idea in my head that God is somehow condemning. When I was in my teens I hated Psalm 139 because I felt is spoke of a god that was intrusive and was always out to pick on my sins.
It wasn’t till later, on a retreat when I was mediatating on the story of the Prodigal Son, that God showed me the utter tenderness with which He loves me/us. I sobbed through the meditation at an experience which I could only describe as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
Now Psalm 139 is my favourite Psalm.
I pray that we will all gradually come to realize the depth of His Love for us; that the knowledge of His love will move from our heads into our hearts. That we may know it in our guts.
This I know. God does not love us because we are good. God loves us **into **goodness.
I was right. I saw the Passion of The Christ and sobbed. Easter of '05 I made my confession of 40 years and sobbed because God removed what I could not, which was the accumulation of the shame of sins that I did not know existed to the depth and intensity I saw until it was removed from my soul.
I especially love the last line in Ps 139 “Probe me, God, know my heart; try me, know my concern. See if my way is crooked, then lead me in the ancient paths.”
Benedictus, it is people with your kind of humility that I want to hear on Catholic radio.
God Bless You and everyone you touch.
B
benedictus2
Guest
Define the terms you’ve highlighted; (if you understand what that means.)
What is there to define. A person who advocates Sola Scriptura would surely know what the highlighted terms mean.
Or is it that you are stumped for an answer and there really is no way of wiggling out of this one, because Alas, they all came from… yes,… the Bible.
…
M
mercygate
Guest
I have been silently following this thread and can say that if I ever had any predilection towards OSAS, it has been obliterated by this thread. Thanks guys & gals.
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