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jmcrae
Guest
So, since it would not be possible for a believer to “interrupt sanctification”, or to die before he is completely sanctified in this life, how does the issue even come up?
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S
sandusky
Guest
“Falling from grace.” Doesn’t grace “sanctify?”Interupt sanctification!?! Where is that “sanctification interuption” in the Bible?
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sandusky
Guest
It’s come about from the original discussion on losing grace.
M
Mickey
Guest
So you are saying that “falling from grace” is synonymous with “sanctification interuption”?
J
jmcrae
Guest
Yes.
Which is why, if you fall from grace, and your sanctification gets “interrupted”, you are no longer on the path to Heaven. Since (as you so eloquently point out) only unbelievers are unsanctified, which means that an interruption in one’s sanctification places one on the path towards unbelief.
Yes, or yes?
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sandusky
Guest
That’s from a Psalm, Mickey and not from the incident itself.
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sandusky
Guest
No.Yes.
Which is why, if you fall from grace, and your sanctification gets “interrupted”, you are no longer on the path to Heaven. Since (as you so eloquently point out) only unbelievers are unsanctified, which means that an interruption in one’s sanctification places one on the path towards unbelief.
Yes, or yes?
Salvation is on the basis of grace, Judith; that’s why sin cannot destroy salvation; if sin can destroy salvation then salvation is no longer on the basis of grace, but on the basis of works.
J
jmcrae
Guest
The subject of the Psalm is the incident itself, so it is definitely relevant.
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Mickey
Guest
That is in response to the incident, my friend. If you like, I can provide pages and pages of patristic consensus.
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moondweller
Guest
And this is where the “Orthodox” and RC’ism veer off from the Apostolic gospel of grace concerning the forgiveness of ALL sins through the power of the cross.Col 2:13-14 "When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."This was the ancient way of publicly stating that a debt was paid in full.
This side of the cross, sin is not the issue. Belief is the issue regarding salvation and the forgiveness of sins. To add to it is an act of unbelief.
C
Contarini
Guest
You’re defining “grace” arbitrarily and unbiblically. Nowhere in the New Testament is persistence in deliberate sin described as being compatible with the reception of grace. Your grace is not grace at all but a form of “cooking the books.” The grace that matters is the grace that transforms even as it forgives. Yes, our transformation is always incomplete and we have to ask for forgiveness every day. No one is disputing that.
Edwin
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sandusky
Guest
The Psalm is a secondary response subsequent to the initial response, and God provides that in one verse, 2 Sam 12:13, so what use has anyone for pages and pages of Patristic consensus?
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Mickey
Guest
No. It is where you veer off from the Apostolic teaching of the Apostolic Church as you twist teachings through a reformer’s lens.
…a man has no right to be called faithful, if his faith is a bare word and if he has not in him a faith made active by love or the Spirit. Thus faith must be made evident by progress in works, or it must act in the light and shine in works, as the divine Apostle says: ‘Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works’ (James 2:18), thus showing that the faith of grace is made evident by works performed in accordance with the commandments, just as the commandments are fulfilled in deed and are made bright through the faith which is in grace.
St. Gregory of Sinai
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sandusky
Guest
I didn’t say that “persistence in deliberate sin is compatible with the reception of grace;” you’ve inferred that. Neither did I offer a definition of grace; you’ve inferred that as well.
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jmcrae
Guest
But if you fall out of grace, then what? Can grace save you, if you are not in it?
Sin causes us to fall out of grace; you have already posted the verse that shows us this. (Galatians 5:4)
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Mickey
Guest
Oh, now it is a secondary response–back peddling again eh?
I did not think you would want the patristic intrepretation of the Psalm.
Afterall, you have your own interpretation.
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Mickey
Guest
Amen.
M
mercygate
Guest
Heck, Mickey, you don’t need St. John of Karpathos; go straight to the Good Book: The [seed sown] along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved.
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sandusky
Guest
For heaven’s sake, Mickey, read Samuel; David was restored/forgiven at the recognition of his sin.Oh, now it is a secondary response–back peddling again eh?
I did not think you would want the patristic intrepretation of the Psalm.
Afterall, you have your own interpretation.
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sandusky
Guest
Yes, that’s why grace is grace; those who are Christ’s will never perish.
To keep Contarini from another wrong inference, grace is not a license to sin.
The reason given for that falling is very specific: adding to faith in Christ the act of circumcision for salvation.
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