I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[Carolyn_H]

Default Re: Meet and Greet #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn H View Post
Hi,
My name is Carolyn H. I am a protestant…and I do not care if you bash me!
I am here to learn.
Hi Carolyn !
Nice to have you with us!
There are many folks here at Catholic Answers Forums who are not Catholic. While this is an open Forum, bashing others or their beliefs is not acceptable ever. All exchanges and opinions must be expressed in a charitable way at all times and the moderators run a tight ship in regards to this area. There are 107,990 members at this website along with the many Forums and thousands of Threads and while it is possible that some folks will get out of line on occasion things run quite smoothly. If you have any problems, alert the moderator of the Thread you are in Carolyn, and they will take a look at things.
Catholic Answers Forums, Catholic Answers Radio, the Rock Magazine and the Library are all excellent resources. Informative, educational and inspirational.
We look forward to having you with us.
Enjoy the site !
God Bless You.
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[sandusky]

Robert in SD:

My bracketed additions make clear what you wish to ADD to the text.

They added the “fullness of the Truth.”
Robert in SD:

I would have it say only the original intent of the writer… that those who are justified are glorified. Justification is a process that begins with baptism and faith and ends in final glorification. Those who are justified by enduring in faith as Abraham did are glorified. Because the process requires endurance, we cannot have absolute assurance. Your understanding is only supported by a very tenuous reading of these passages.

As I’ve stated before, justification includes endurance to glorification (Rom 8:30). God has provided all that is needed, even to the “fear of the Lord” so that they will not turn from Him (Jer 32:40).
Robert in SD:

That’s not the issue sandusky. The issue that I keep returning to has nothing to do with God’s predestination, but with our own understanding. Certainly God knows and perfects those he has predestined. The question is whether any human being can know with absolute certainty that they are predestined (as opposed to just pretending to themselves and others that they are predestined).

That’s tradition getting in your way; namely, it’s presumptuous to be joyfully assured because the church teaches that one can have “moral assurance” only; understanding the church’s teaching on sin and loss of salvation, they should call it “moral uncertainty,” IMO.
Robert in SD:

No. Abraham’s life ended in the past, even with respect to the NT writer.

You’d have a point if Paul were talking about Abraham; however, he’s not:** Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ…**If he were talking about Abraham, he’d have said “HE HAS PEACE,” not “WE.”
Robert in SD:

You cannot say e.g. Abraham knew with absolute certainty that he was going to heaven from the moment he followed God’s command to come out of his father’s home and into the desert. What one - looking back on Abraham’s whole life - can say is that Abraham lived an active life of faith in God, and that life of enduring faith was credited to him as righteousness. This is Catholic doctrine.

No argument; that’s Catholic doctrine.
Robert in SD:

He believed in God for his entire life… a life lived in faith.

In my post I referenced Rom 4:3, which references Gen 15:6:**Genesis 15:6

Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.**Righteousness was reckoned to Abraham then. And from that point on, Abraham had peace through our Lord Jesus Christ, having been justified by faith (Rom 5:1).
Robert in SD:

What if Abraham had done all that God commanded, except when it came to sacrificing his only son Isaac? Would his faith prior to that point be credited as righteousness? Do you think he would be in heaven despite his direct disobedience to God’s command?

That’s a moot point; it’s best to deal with reality.
Robert in SD:

Yes and no. To those who are initially justified, there must be continuing active faith - i.e. endurance - or there will follow a loss of that grace. A destruction of that relationship with God reestablished by the redeeming work of Christ. Paul is not saying endure or you will be chastized (but don’t worry about seeing heaven, your salvation is assured.) NO! Paul is saying work out your salvation, to those who received baptismal regeneration and were placed into a right relationship with God through Christ’s redemptive work. Endurance is mandatory, or faith is dead.

Again, endurance is included in God’s foreknowing, predestining, calling, justifying, glorifying. No need to tell about me works—I’m a very hard worker; however, I know that I’m not saved on the basis of those works, but by grace through faith.
Robert in SD:

Again, you’r missing the point. This passage does not say one can be assured of their personal salvation, just because they had a past moment of faith. Faith must endure - with the grace of God.

Again, Paul is reciting the decree of God: Those He foreknew HE ALSO predestined, those He predestined HE ALSO called, those He called HE ALSO justified, those He justified HE ALSO glorified.

Perseverance, endurance are provided in salvation.
Robert in SD:

God wills that all come to Him. Many do not.

Not so. No one can come to the Father, but through Christ, and no one has the ability to come to Christ EXCEPT the Father draw Him, and all the Father draw will come (Jn 14:6; Jn 6:37, 44).

That’s the whole point of John 6—no one can come EXCEPT (Jn 6:65).
Robert in SD:

But, as I have demonstrated, perserverence is not inherent in initial justification. Perserverence can only be determined at the end of a life, not in the course of a life.

:doh2:

 

[guanophore]

but you, in your theology, replace the Person and work of Christ with your sacramental system.

Such a statement reveals a gross ignorance of the nature of sacraments.

Has it occurred to you that you are arguing against something that only exists in your imagination? Have you considered arguing against what the Church actually teaches, instead of the anti-Catholic drivel to which you have been exposed?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The action of grace in salvation is active on God’s part, and passive on man’s.

You’re confusion is that you view grace as “substance.”

That’s very boldly of you to state my view for me, when I have yet to state my view of Grace, what kind of dialogue is this when you percieve to think what others believe without first learning or understanding a persons views on the subject?

As far as infants, when they die God brings them to heaven.

Who said anything about infants dieing? you believe in Grace alone? How does an infant recieve Grace to be saved from your Grace alone theory? Please explain how this occurs from Grace alone? There is no need to state what I believe, Iam asking about your belief?

Define “mentally ill.”

Some one who is incapable of thinking, or talking for himself, and does not have the capability of learning new things. How does this individual recieve your Grace alone to be saved?

A deaf mute has the ability to understand the Gospel.

Ok, then, how does this deaf mute receive Grace? if he/she is unable to publicly confess or accept Jesus Christ as his/her personal savior?

For the past nine years, one of the ministries my wife and I have been involved in, is ministering to folks with a wide range of physical and mental impairment, and these range in age from pre-teens to old age.

I commend you and your wife on your efforts. It takes a very special person to take on a ministery as this, God bless you and your wife.

 

[guanophore]

What she said confirms what I said.

I think not. Your statement clearly implied that the actions of Jesus were not to be found in the “sacramental system”. What you said makes it appear that you don;t understand that Catholics see Jesus working through the sacraments. You stated that He was “replaced” by them.

Such a statement is amazing in the light of the scriptural evidence that the disciples “recognized Him in the breaking of the bread”. In fact, the breaking of the bread enabled them to recognize Him for who He was.

 

[Peter_J]

The redeemed in Christ are not restored to Adam and Eve’s original state (innocence, only to fall again through sin) but, according to divine revelation, are “created in Christ Jesus” to a state of righteousness, now in Him.

Amen!

 

[benedictus2]

I came here to learn…Instead I am called a “Jehovah Witness” and get attacked for my form of praising Jesus!

I have learned enough about all of you! Thanks for the important lesson!

:sad_yes:

In your post #649 you called someone ignorant. So it is okay for you to call someone ignorant but someone can’t call you a Jehovah’s witness?

When you start hurling accusations about Catholic practices which (dare I say this) you are also probably “ignorant” about, should we just grin and bear it?

Before you go on an attack, have all your facts in order. Because as some have already replied, you are so very, very,ill informed about this matter.

A Protestant who converted to Catholicism (Ray Stephen’s wife), said after attending her first Mass, that she was very angry for having been LIED TO all these years (they are both cradle protestants).

She was not only angry about the protestants for the lies that she was fed with. She was also very angry at the Catholics who because they did not know their faith, failed to defend it to her.

She said had she known about the Catholic Faith what she knows now, they would have converted years ago.

They studied much and so came to truth.

How can we take your attacks sitting down, when you call the Bride of Christ, the Whore of Babylon?

 

[sandusky]

benedictus2:

So what are you doing there? If you love the Lord so much, wouldn’t you want to belong to His Church?

B2, clearly your church changed the Gospel of Jesus Christ when it added, as a requirement for salvation, the belief in certain of the Marian doctrines.

ISTM, that you should ask yourself the question you pose above.

 

[coleraine]

B2, clearly your church changed the Gospel of Jesus Christ when it added, as a requirement for salvation, the belief in certain of the Marian doctrines.

ISTM, that you should ask yourself the question you pose above.

It seems to me that you will not take things seriously enough, which is why this has come to such a conflict as this. Let me ask you a question, Why do early christian letters contain info on communion and the universal church? (catholic/katholike) Why are there so many catholic saint in the 200 a.d., such as st patrick? Why do you use an incomplete bible, when the bible as used by our lord is used by us? Do you not know that your beliefs in SS is rather silly when you consider that Luther removed books from the bible, just because he did not like them? How can you seriously defend protestantism? why dont you try to do it without merely twisting peoples words around. why dont you give historical evidence, or any real documented evidence whatsoever?

 

[De_Maria]

B2, clearly your church changed the Gospel of Jesus Christ when it added, as a requirement for salvation, the belief in certain of the Marian doctrines.

Reverence for Mary flows from Scripture.

Let us begin with Luke 1. Have you ever considered that GOD HIMSELF spoke through an angel and called her (in the Protestant Bible mind you), favored one.

That means that an angel from heaven praised Mary.
This angel was sent by the direct command of God with a message of praise for Mary.

If God can praise Mary through His Angel, why don’t you?

Thats just the Protestant Bible. In the Catholic Bible, a more excellent interpretation is used. Mary is called, Kecharitomene. FULL OF GRACE. But not “full of grace” as St. Stephen, which is full of grace in that one moment in time. But Kecharitomene is a perfect tense meaning that she is FULL OF GRACE from her beginning to eternity in heaven. She is immaculate. Without trace of sin:
bringyou.to/apologetics/a116.htm

Of course, that means she did not sin. “Aha!!” You screech out the tired Protestant protest, "Scripture says “all have sinned!”

Sure it says that. But does it mean that? Of course not. We know that children in the womb haven’t sinned. Neither have children before the age of reason. Nor have adults who have not attained reason. So, if Scripture MEANS “all have sinned”, Scripture would err. And Scripture is infallible.

But Scripture confirms that not all have sinned. First we have Enoch, who went straight to heaven without dying. And so did Elijah. So, two men who didn’t sin. Because the wages of sin is death.

And then we have this verse which Protestants just abhor:
Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

And so, Catholic doctrine is consistent with Scripture when She teaches that St. Mary, the Mother of God, did not ever sin.

MOTHER OF GOD!!! Oh no! Blasphemy!

Well what does this mean then?
Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

That’s St. Elizabeth speaking to Mary.

All Marian doctrines are in Scripture, either directly or indirectly.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[sandusky]

Gabriel of 12:

That’s very boldly of you to state my view for me, when I have yet to state my view of Grace, what kind of dialogue is this when you percieve to think what others believe without first learning or understanding a persons views on the subject?

Forgive me; you don’t believe that grace is “substance.”
Gabriel of 12:

Who said anything about infants dieing? you believe in Grace alone? How does an infant recieve Grace to be saved from your Grace alone theory? Please explain how this occurs from Grace alone? There is no need to state what I believe, Iam asking about your belief?

Infants receive the same grace as any other unbeliever—none, (other than common grace) until they are able to believe the gospel. If they die in infancy, they’re immediately with the Lord.
Gabriel of 12:

Some one who is incapable of thinking, or talking for himself, and does not have the capability of learning new things. How does this individual recieve your Grace alone to be saved?

If he is that incapable of anything, my belief is that he will be with the Lord at the instant of his death.
Gabriel of 12:

Ok, then, how does this deaf mute receive Grace? if he/she is unable to publicly confess or accept Jesus Christ as his/her personal savior?

Assumes (wrongly) that deaf mutes are unable to communicate.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Oh, I forgot, you’re too busy dancing and clapping around your house…:clapping: :whackadoo:

Bigoted. Stereotypical. And rude.

 

[notsmart]

I just hope that people will see that God’s grace is through faith in Christ and not in some man made rituals. May the Lord truly bless every one who is seeking to know him in truth.

One needs to cooperate with the graces God made available to us.

Have a holy spirit filled day!

 

[guanophore]

That would be by grace; your church understands and acknowledges the necessity of grace, but has never understood the sufficiency of it.

This is an amazing statement, given that the Catholic Church produced the NT, where it is all documented. Do you believe they did not understand what they wrote?

 

[benedictus2]

B2, clearly your church changed the Gospel of Jesus Christ when it added, as a requirement for salvation, the belief in certain of the Marian doctrines.

ISTM, that you should ask yourself the question you pose above.

Sandusky, Evasion is all you’ve ever done on this subject.
And yes, another tactic, change the subject.

**WHICH OF THE MULTITUDE OF PROTESTANT CHURCHES IS CHRIST’S TRUE CHURCH? **

That you cannot answer this question is clear. That none of the protestant churches is Christ’s church, or else after all these time you would have come up with an answer. Funny, you cannot even say with confidence that it is Your church.

So to your question, above, I am not looking for Christ’s church because I am already in Christ’s Church. The one He founded on Peter, the one Paul calls His Bride.

And yes, I can supply you with a historical timeline.

A bit too big to post in this forum but I can email it to you if you like.

 

[benedictus2]

Bigoted. Stereotypical. And rude.

How is it bigoted, stereotypical and rude to say that you dance and clap at your church.

I was invited to a service by a Protestant friend and this is exactly what they do. They read about 10 lines of the Gospel and the rest is a long winded sermon and clapping and singing.l

Now Caroline said that we pay monks and nuns to pray for us. Is that less, bigotted, stereotypica and rude?

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

How is it bigoted, stereotypical and rude to say that you dance and clap at your church.

I was invited to a service by a Protestant friend and this is exactly what they do. They read about 10 lines of the Gospel and the rest is a long winded sermon and clapping and singing.

It’s a condescending and dismissive characterization…I could make an analogous summary of Catholic worship, but aside from being uncharitable, it’d also be untrue by virtue of distorting the interpretation of what’s going on. Both are caricatures of what’s actually happening.

It was an uncharitable comment given in response to another uncharitable comment. It saddens me to see everyone more interested in pushing eachother’s buttons than in enjoying the fellowship and common purpose we share.

 

[benedictus2]

It’s a condescending and dismissive characterization…I could make an analogous summary of Catholic worship, but aside from being uncharitable, it’d also be untrue by virtue of distorting the interpretation of what’s going on. Both are caricatures of what’s actually happening.

It was an uncharitable comment given in response to another uncharitable comment. It saddens me to see everyone more interested in pushing eachother’s buttons than in enjoying the fellowship and common purpose we share.

VERY WELL SAID. THANKS VERY MUCH.

 

[churchcamefirst]

**I find here that it’s ok for Protestants to insult my Catholic church, but when a Catholic (God forbid) says something back it is uncharitable…please… **

 

[churchcamefirst]

You are ignorant! Why don’t you ask God about me before YOU Judge me!!! From what I have seen of Catholics on this sight…I thank God He made me Protestant.

God never made you a protester of his church, man did that to you. You have free will, yet you reject the church Jesus founded.