I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[sandusky]

The point of the parable is readiness. That is clearly indictated by the verses immediately preceding the parable:

Luke 12:35-41

35"Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit.
36"Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks.
37"Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
38"Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.
39"But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
40"You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
41Peter said, “Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?”

And the theme of readiness and alertness is continued in Jesus response to Peter’s question regarding the parable on readiness He just gave:

42And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
43"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
44"Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
45"But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

The highlighted parts clearly indicate that this passage is a continuation of the readiness theme established in verse 35. The parable disusses the end of that faithful and wise steward if he remains alert and faithfully carries out the duties assigned to him by his master and his fate if he does not. The other basic point is that those who have responsibility over others - such as the faithful steward who is given a position of authority by his master - will incur a stricter judgement

1. … From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more

Which is similar to James 3:1

1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

God Bless,
Michael

The point of the parable is made at its conclusion; that’s where points are made, at the conclusion; that’s what teachings drive to, the conclusion; that’s why writings and teachings are structured in the order of beginning, middle, conclusion.

While readiness is certainly a point taught consistently in scripture, that’s not the conclusion of this parable.

 

[mikeledes]

They’re dead—they’re not even aware of God’s mercy.

And yet the “dead” apparently have the abililty to hear and as a result and have life:

John 5:25

25"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Note the order: Dead, hear, live. It’s not dead, live, hear, live.

Revelation 2:20

**20’Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

And yet the “dead” apparently have the abililty to hear and as a result and have life:

Note the order: Dead, hear, live. It’s not dead, live, hear, live.

More quibbling, Mike.

Dead men cannot believe until God intercedes, and brings, them to life.

In fact, they can’t even see the kingdom if they’re not “born-again,” and yet, Catholics are not “born-again” until baptism; so Catholics have the difficulty of dead people claiming to see the kingdom, prior to their having been “born-again.”

Who’s directing them into this error? Certainly not the Lord.

 

[mikeledes]

The point of the parable is made at its conclusion; that’s where points are made, at the conclusion; that’s what teachings drive to, the conclusion; that’s why writings and teachings are structured in the order of beginning, middle, conclusion.

The parable is about readiness and the stricter judgement those given positions of authority will incur. And the conclusion of the parable is the following:

From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more

Christians given postions of authority will incur stricter judgement, especially in the case of those Christians who fail to persevere and are thus not ready when their master comes.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

More quibbling, Mike.

Dead men cannot believe until God intercedes, and brings, them to life.

In fact, they can’t even see the kingdom if they’re not “born-again,” and yet, Catholics are not “born-again” until baptism; so Catholics have the difficulty of dead people claiming to see the kingdom, prior to their having been “born-again.”

According to Christ, the dead can hear before coming to life. In fact, coming to life clearly occurs after hearing His voice. He does not say that the alive will hear His voice.

Also, God must intervene before a person can come to faith. But we don’t believe that’s the biblical understanding of regeneration.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

Christians given postions of authority will incur stricter judgement, especially in the case of those Christians who fail to persevere and are thus not ready when their master comes.

God Bless,
Michael

:nope:

It’s not simply about Christians, it’s speaking of unbelievers as well (v46), and that the final eternal punishment will vary in degree, and that ignorance of the gospel does not preclude punishment (vv47, 48).

As I stated earlier to you:As I’ve tried in the past to get you to understand, parables generally deal with one point, and that point is generally stated at the end of the parable, and the end of this parable is in vv47 and 48 where the point is made: punishment in hell will vary according to the degree of knowledge of God’s will (hearing the gospel and embracing it, or hearing the gospel and rejecting it), and the willful disobedience to God’s will, and that ignorance of God’s will (never hearing the Gospel) does not excuse one from eternal punishment.

It’s a parable.

 

[mikeledes]

Disagree Mike.

It’s not simply about Christians, it’s speaking of unbelievers as well (v46), and that the final eternal punishment will vary in degree, and that ignorance of the gospel does not preclude punishment (vv47, 48).

The overall theme is the importance of readiness. This is especially demonstrated in Matthew 24:42-51, where the same parable is used as the beginning of a series of “readiness” parables. The slave that suffers eternal damnation is the one that was not ready when his master came. In other words, those Christians who are not ready at His coming will suffer the same fate as unbelievers. Their lack of readiness will be componded by the fact that they knew they had to be prepared for the unknown day or our and did not do it. Moroever, to whom much is given, much will be required. Those Christians given a position of authority will incur a stricter judgement and a higher degree of punishment if they fail to faithfully persevere in their duties.

It may be a parable, but it corresponds to reality.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

The overall theme is the importance of readiness. The slave that suffers eternal damnation is the one that was not ready when his master came. In other words, those Christians who are not ready at His coming will suffer the same fate as unbelievers. Their lack of readiness will be componded by the fact that they knew they had to be prepared for the unknown day or our and did not do it. Moroever, to whom much is given, much will be required. Those Christians given a position of authority will incur a stricter judgement and a higher degree of punishment if they fail to faithfully persevere in their duties.

God Bless,
Michael

:nope:

It’s not simply about Christians, it’s speaking of unbelievers as well (v46), and **that the final eternal punishment will vary in degree, and that ignorance of the gospel does not preclude punishment **(vv47, 48).

As I stated earlier to you:As I’ve tried in the past to get you to understand, parables generally deal with one point, and that point is generally stated at the end of the parable, and the end of this parable is in vv47 and 48 where the point is made: punishment in hell will vary according to the degree of knowledge of God’s will (hearing the gospel and embracing it, or hearing the gospel and rejecting it), and the willful disobedience to God’s will, and that ignorance of God’s will (never hearing the Gospel) does not excuse one from eternal punishment.

It’s a parable.

 

[sandusky]

The overall theme is the importance of readiness. This is especially demonstrated in Matthew 24:42-51, where the same parable is used as the beginning of a series of “readiness” parables.

Luke’s rendering of the parable has a different conclusion than that of Matthew.

You’re ignoring Luke’s conclusion in favor of Matthew’s conclusion simply on the basis that I’ve got you dead to rights about what Luke’s saying, and you refuse to admit that—after all, you can’t have a protestant be right.

 

[Ronald_E]

:nope:

It’s not simply about Christians, it’s speaking of unbelievers as well (v46), and that the final eternal punishment will vary in degree, and that ignorance of the gospel does not preclude punishment (vv47, 48).

As I stated earlier to you:As I’ve tried in the past to get you to understand, parables generally deal with one point, and that point is generally stated at the end of the parable, and the end of this parable is in vv47 and 48 where the point is made: punishment in hell will vary according to the degree of knowledge of God’s will (hearing the gospel and embracing it, or hearing the gospel and rejecting it), and the willful disobedience to God’s will, and that ignorance of God’s will (never hearing the Gospel) does not excuse one from eternal punishment.

It’s a parable.

Sandusky,
Parables show a reversal of human thinking, i.e. the first will be last and the last will be first.
Growth and transformation over time, i.e. small seeds into great seeds, trees sprouting leaves and producing fruit over time.
Joy of finding what has been lost, i.e. prodigal son, the lost sheep.
Mixing ingredients, i.e. a woman mixing yeast and flour to make bread, salt flavors and preserves, weeds are found among the wheat.
Look at Mark 4 and see the many different levels of meaning. When we limit God to one belief we restrict God’s involvement in everyone’s life and we set ourselves in a position of idolotry.
Parables challenge everyone to perceive differently from their natural way of thinking.
Present day miracles are supporting evidence in scripture that God is Love. His Love is so great that He brought back to life through John Paul II a man who was dead in life and dead in death. He shows us that He desires everyone’s salvation. This is all scriptural.

 

[mikeledes]

Luke’s rendering of the parable has a different conclusion than that of Matthew.

You’re ignoring Luke’s conclusion in favor of Matthew’s conclusion simply on the basis that I’ve got you dead to rights about what Luke’s saying, and you refuse to admit that.

Whatever the conclusion is, Sandusky, this fact remains the same. The parable starts off with a faithful and wise steward who is given a position of authority by his Master. If he faithfully exercises this position of authority until his Master’s coming, he will be rewarded. If he turns away from faithfulness and into a life of sin, his Master will come in an hour he does not know and punish him. Then Jesus goes into* specifics *about punishment. But that does not take away from the fact that a faithfuil and wise steward can turn away from faithfulness and suffer eternal damnation. The conclusion, moreover, does not take away from the fact that the parable is about readiness. Jesus says the parable after talking about readiness and using a parable to emphasize the importance of readiness. The fact that the primary theme of the parable is readiness is emphasized by the fact that the same parable is used in Matthew 24 as the first parable in a series of parables discussing the importance of readiness. And he opens that same parable in Matthew 24 with the following:

Matthew 24:44-45

44"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
45"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

Verse 44 makes it clear that Jesus is using this parable to teach the importance of readiness. There is a smooth transition from verse 44 to verse 45.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

Sandusky,
Parables show a reversal of human thinking, i.e. the first will be last and the last will be first.
Growth and transformation over time, i.e. small seeds into great seeds, trees sprouting leaves and producing fruit over time.
Joy of finding what has been lost, i.e. prodigal son, the lost sheep.
Mixing ingredients, i.e. a woman mixing yeast and flour to make bread, salt flavors and preserves, weeds are found among the wheat.
Look at Mark 4 and see the many different levels of meaning. When we limit God to one belief we restrict God’s involvement in everyone’s life and we set ourselves in a position of idolotry.
Parables challenge everyone to perceive differently from their natural way of thinking.

And you’ve missed the point Luke was making in his recounting of the what Christ said.

mikeledes:

Present day miracles are supporting evidence in scripture that God is Love. His Love is so great that He brought back to life through John Paul II a man who was dead in life and dead in death. He shows us that He desires everyone’s salvation. This is all scriptural.

There three specific eras of miracles presented in the Scripture: 1) the encounter with Pharaoh, and the Exodus; 2) the time of Elijah; 3) the time of Christ.

There’s no more revelation forthcoming, as your Catechism states.

There is a future period of miracles yet to come, as prophesied in Revelation; however, a near-death experience is hardly a miracle.

Miracles are best described as God supernaturally superseding the “laws of nature” in such a way that many observe the phenomenon.

Near-death experiences are called “near-death,” because death does not finally occur.

Even your church does not require the Catholic to believe in this kind of “personal revelation.”

 

[sandusky]

Whatever the conclusion is, Sandusky, this fact remains the same.

You’re coming around, Mike.

You lose nothing in understanding Luke’s conclusion as being what it is—there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell.

 

[mikeledes]

You’re coming around, Mike.

You lose nothing in understanding Luke’s conclusion as being what it is—there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell.

And the faithful Christian given a position of authority who is not ready at his Master’s coming will suffer a greater degree of puniishment for two reasons:

1. He knew what his Master expected if him to do
2. He was given a poistion of authority

The conlcusion is…

**From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more. **

The primary theme of the parable is readiness. The overall context of the parable in both Matthew and Luke is readiness, and this is very strong in Matthew. The conclusion discusses the sad fate of those who are not ready at His coming, which will be compounded by the fact they they knew they had to be ready and that they were entrusted with authority.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

And the faithful Christian given a position of authority who is not ready at his Master’s coming will suffer a greater degree of puniishment for two reasons:

1. He knew what his Master expected if him to do
2. He was given a poistion of authority

The conlcusion is…

**From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more. **

The primary theme of the parable is readiness. The conclusion discusses the sad fate of those who are not ready at His coming, which will be compunded by the fact they they knew they had to be ready and that they were entrusted with authority.

You’re wantonly neglecting the unbelievers, and therefore, the extent and breadth of the punishment articulated in the conclusion.

 

[Ronald_E]

And you’ve missed the point Luke was making in his recounting of the what Christ said.

There three specific eras of miracles presented in the Scripture: 1) the encounter with Pharaoh, and the Exodus; 2) the time of Elijah; 3) the time of Christ.

There’s no more revelation forthcoming, as your Catechism states.

There is a future period of miracles yet to come, as prophesied in Revelation; however, a near-death experience is hardly a miracle.

Miracles are best described as God supernaturally superseding the “laws of nature” in such a way that many observe the phenomenon.

Near-death experiences are called “near-death,” because death does not finally occur.

Even your church does not require the Catholic to believe in this kind of “personal revelation.”

This man was dead for 20 minutes after he was pronounced dead.
This is the time of Christ, He continues to perform miracles so that we may believe He is here with us now. This is now the Kingdom of God on earth. He promised He would never leave us.
Please read my words carefully and please do not interpret them with prejudice.
This is the time of Christ. He is here with us now. He uses everyone to know Him through how we show His Love to others. He will be known by how we know Him. If we limit Him and restrict Him in His expression of Love then the world will reject Him by our example.
That is what the parable in Luke reveals to us. We are required to Love with His Love. We are to love at all times and not let one moment pass without His Love.
You know the 3 greatest commandments He gave us.
God is Love.

 

[mikeledes]

You’re wantonly neglecting the unbelievers, and therefore, the extent and breadth of the punishment articulated in the conclusion.

Obvioulsy, the unbelievers suffer eternal damnation and the faithful steward who turns away from faithfulness and abuses that authority given to him by his master will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers. Te degree of punishment will be greater because:

James 3:1

**1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. **

As it says in verse 46, to whom much is given, much is required. The differing degrees of punishment does not take away from the fact that the primary purpose of the parable is to emphasize the importance of being alert and ready and the urgency of this is emphasized by the eternal damnation of the steward that was not ready.

God bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

Obvioulsy, the unbelievers suffer eternal damnation and the faithful steward who turns away from faithfulness and abuses that authority given to him by his master will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers. Te degree of punishment will be greater because:

James 3:1

1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

As it says in verse 46, to whom much is given, much is required. The differing degrees of punishment does not take away from the fact that the primary purpose of the parable is to emphasize the importance of being alert and ready and the urgency of this is emphasized by the eternal damnation of the steward that was not ready.

God bless,
Michael

Thanks, Mike.

 

[mikeledes]

Thanks, Mike.

Sure, anytime.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

This man was dead for 20 minutes after he was pronounced dead.
This is the time of Christ, He continues to perform miracles so that we may believe He is here with us now. This is now the Kingdom of God on earth. He promised He would never leave us.
Please read my words carefully and please do not interpret them with prejudice.
This is the time of Christ. He is here with us now. He uses everyone to know Him through how we show His Love to others. He will be known by how we know Him. If we limit Him and restrict Him in His expression of Love then the world will reject Him by our example.
That is what the parable in Luke reveals to us. We are required to Love with His Love. We are to love at all times and not let one moment pass without His Love.
You know the 3 greatest commandments He gave us.
God is Love.

Ronald, I don’t see the connection between what Luke said, and a near-death experience.

However, if you believe it brings you closer to Christ, then by all means embrace it; however, be aware of your church’s instruction on “private revelation,” in light of its instruction on the close of revelation.