I was open to Orthodoxy but...

[Bluegoat]

You’d have to actually convert to it, wouldn’t you? If you wanted to participate in parish life.

No, a person who lived in Moscow, who moved to Athens, would just attend the local Greek Church. There wouldn’t be a Russian Church there. There would be no need to transfer, apart from introductions and that sort of thing.

 

[Cavaradossi]

No, a person who lived in Moscow, who moved to Athens, would just attend the local Greek Church. There wouldn’t be a Russian Church there. There would be no need to transfer, apart from introductions and that sort of thing.

On a slight tangent, this is how it works within the Anglican Communion as well, is it not? If an Old Catholic were to leave Germany for the United States and end up attending an Episcopal Church, he would be eligible to partake of the Eucharist, is that not correct?

 

[Bluegoat]

On a slight tangent, this is how it works within the Anglican Communion as well, is it not? If an Old Catholic were to leave Germany for the United States and end up attending an Episcopal Church, he would be eligible to partake of the Eucharist, is that not correct?

As far as the Anglican Communion goes, yes, that is how it works.

I’m actually not sure of the status of the Old Catholics with relation to the Communion - there aren’t any where I live.

 

[Cavaradossi]

As far as the Anglican Communion goes, yes, that is how it works.

I’m actually not sure of the status of the Old Catholics with relation to the Communion - there aren’t any where I live.

Well at least according to the ever handy and 100% reliable wikipedia (let’s see how many academics around the world I have just made to cringe with that statement), the Old Catholic Churches in the Utrecht Union are in Full Communion with the Anglican Communion, so I guess the assumption is that inter-communion is possible and probably happens between members of both.

I guess that explains why I never had as hard of a time explaining the concept of a Communion of Churches to my Episcopalian friends as I did explaining the concept to my Protestant and Roman Catholic friends.

 

[Bluegoat]

Well at least according to the ever handy and 100% reliable wikipedia (let’s see how many academics around the world I have just made to cringe with that statement), the Old Catholic Churches in the Utrecht Union are in Full Communion with the Anglican Communion, so I guess the assumption is that inter-communion is possible and probably happens between members of both.

I guess that explains why I never had as hard of a time explaining the concept of a Communion of Churches to my Episcopalian friends as I did explaining the concept to my Protestant and Roman Catholic friends.

Yes, them they would be in communion, theoretically.

Unfortunately the problems in the Communion today mean that in fact, it is hard to say what the substance of being in communion is.

But the theory is very similar to Orthodoxy.

 

[jmcrae]

No, a person who lived in Moscow, who moved to Athens, would just attend the local Greek Church. There wouldn’t be a Russian Church there. There would be no need to transfer, apart from introductions and that sort of thing.

Would he still be bound by the laws of the Russian church, or would he automatically come under the laws of the Greek church, simply by attending there regularly?

 

[Rawb]

Would he still be bound by the laws of the Russian church, or would he automatically come under the laws of the Greek church, simply by attending there regularly?

There’s no difference in any laws. Which laws were you referring to?

 

[jmcrae]

There’s no difference in any laws. Which laws were you referring to?

Marriage laws, and things like that. (Some Orthodox churches permit divorce and remarriage; others don’t. Some permit the use of some kinds of birth control; others don’t. That kind of thing.)

 

[Rawb]

Marriage laws, and things like that. (Some Orthodox churches permit divorce and remarriage; others don’t. Some permit the use of some kinds of birth control; others don’t. That kind of thing.)

All Orthodox Churches, pending an investigation into the marriage by The Church, will permit a divorce with up to 3 remarriages.

Contraception is an issue between a couple and their priest’s guidance seeking God’s Will. There’s not a law on it.

All Orthodox Churches have the same fasting regulations, the same marriage regulations, the same saints (even between the Eastern and Western Rites, though some Westerners are trying to venerate ‘saints’ that their bishops are dealing with) the same beliefs about Holy Communion, the same beliefs about all the Sacraments. The biggest difference between my Serbian Parish and the Greek Parish down the street is they say “Christos Anesti!” and we say “Christos Voskrese!” but we all say “Christ is Risen!” I promise you, we are One Church.

 

[Izdaari]

… I never heard them speak the truth in** love** (Eph 4:15). And by “never” I mean never. This always turned me off from Orthodoxy, because I thought to myself, “I do not want to be like these people.”

They always came across to me as proud and anti-West. It can’t be just mere coincidence that all the Orthodox articles I have come across are extremely critical of Catholic teachings even when there was no need to point out those things. There seemed to be an intrinsic hatred of Catholic teachings and even church fathers.

This thread is just a request to all the Orthodox here to follow Eph 4:15. I also want to see if other Catholics here share the same sentiments.

Hmm, that’s not my impression. I’ve gotten to know a good many Orthodox on some other Christian forums, and I like them very much. Most of them seem well-informed, orthodox (small “o”) and humble. In fact, they make rather a better impression on me than Catholics do, by and large. Of course, not being Catholic, I’m not especially sensitive to criticism of Catholicism, so I couldn’t speak to that aspect of it.

 

[ciero]

My only issue with Orthodoxy is that it is nationalistic, rather than universalist, as the Catholic Church is. Jesus said, go out to the nations - He never intended for there to be national churches under separate hierarchies.

That’s the tipping point for me, when it comes to deciding between Catholic and Orthodox.

Thats very easy to say…but look at the history of the parts of the world where these churches come from…first under the domination of Islam…then Soviet communism…hardly the environment for evangelization!! These Churches are lucky to be alive!! I wonder where the RCC would be if it had to deal with the persecution the Orthodox suffered under for the better part of the last 1000 years?

 

[ciero]

Gee thanks, ciero…

Sorry if that came across in a negative manner…I didn’t mean it like that. I have traveled extensively in the Orthodox world and have been welcomed (as a Catholic mind you) very warmly in Orthodox churches. I have been offered communion in Orthodox churches uncountable times throughout Greece, Russia Serbia Romania and the Middle East, It has been my experience that the only anti catholic attitudes I have met are right here in the US and MOSTLY by converts to Orthodoxy, not by those who were raised in the Orthodox faith.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thats very easy to say…but look at the history of the parts of the world where these churches come from…first under the domination of Islam…then Soviet communism…hardly the environment for evangelization!! These Churches are lucky to be alive!! I wonder where the RCC would be if it had to deal with the persecution the Orthodox suffered under for the better part of the last 1000 years?

I still find Roman Catholicism nationalistic. There are many wonderful local traditions where Roman Catholicism is. The issue is when these ethnic traditions clash. The problem I think most traditionalists have with Roman Catholicism today is the strong influence of incultured Roman Catholicism coming in from other areas. In the US for example, as the population of Caucasian European-decent RCs go down, they are replaced by Hispanics (include Filipinos who’s Catholic identity came from Spain). Now these people would complain of things that are new to them, therefore blame it as modern innovation, but has been part of the other cultures for decades, if not centuries.

 

[ConstantineTG]

All Orthodox Churches, pending an investigation into the marriage by The Church, will permit a divorce with up to 3 remarriages.

Contraception is an issue between a couple and their priest’s guidance seeking God’s Will. There’s not a law on it.

All Orthodox Churches have the same fasting regulations, the same marriage regulations, the same saints (even between the Eastern and Western Rites, though some Westerners are trying to venerate ‘saints’ that their bishops are dealing with) the same beliefs about Holy Communion, the same beliefs about all the Sacraments. The biggest difference between my Serbian Parish and the Greek Parish down the street is they say “Christos Anesti!” and we say “Christos Voskrese!” but we all say “Christ is Risen!” I promise you, we are One Church.

Wouldn’t you say Christos Anesti as well? I thought all Byzantine Churches would say it in Greek on top of other languages (Slavonic, Arabic, vernaculars).

 

[ConstantineTG]

You’d have to actually convert to it, wouldn’t you? If you wanted to participate in parish life.

Some communities may be more protective than others. For many who come from Eastern Europe, they just go to either Orthodox or Eastern Catholic parishes as if they were the same and wouldn’t bat an eyelash on going to either one. Some would stay as Orthodox or as Catholics simply because its been the faith of their family for generations. But if the situation changed, they won’t think twice about going to an Orthodox parish. I was listening to a Ukrainian Catholic priest talking about Ukrainian Catholics in an area he used to serve and they had to close down the parish. He said the parishioners just transferred to the Orthodox parish.

We are all still under one Pope and one law, though. And there is no need to convert, or even canonically transfer, before being able to participate in parish life.

Not really. Eastern Catholics are governed by the CCEO, not the CIC. And most would practice their traditions without minding the Canon Laws. Not that any authentic Christian tradition will violate Canon Law. But I`m sure if one would bother to look very hard, they may see some minor violations.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I don’t particularly see much of an issue with it either. The only issue I have with it is if it stands in the way of the formation of the American Orthodox Chruch (which will be a reality, and beautifuly comprised of a mixture of all those jurisdictions which are now evangelizing our country) or if a parish cares more about the “Greek” or “Serbian” or whatever in their name than they do about the “Orthodox Christian” part.

I just mean it’s not something to pretend is only an issue in Orthodoxy.

I’d say it’s probably a problem in all Christian groups.

 

[roselily]

Orthodoxy are kind, brothers sisters, very kind.
Because I have a friend here is Orthodox.
He is very kind! His name is Hesychios!

 

[Ken_Taki]

One family is an awfully small sample size.

That was his experience. You can bat off the statistics of the Japanese killed in the tsunami but do you think it would have a billionth of the affect on you compared to something like an immediate family member being killed. Dont undermine someones emotional experience saying its invalid or irrelevant.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Dear brother WesleyF,

I support those who have pointed out that there are many beautiful, kind Orthodox people on this planet.

However, as a former anti-Catholic, Orthodox NOT in communion with Rome, I can testify to this very attitude of which you are concerned. There is often a deliberate attempt to misrepresent Catholic teachings (particularly Latin Catholic teachings). It was only by “going outside the box” that I was able to see Catholicism for what it actually was.

As I’ve always maintained:
(1) Orthodox do a disservice to themselves by attacking Catholicism with their distortions. If they stuck simply to supporting Orthodoxy, we’d be in a much better world (in terms of Catholic-Orthodox relations), and much closer to re-union.

(2) The beauty of Catholicism is its inherent Catholicity - able to seek out what actually unites the whole and thus unite the Church. Copts, Chaldeans, Latins, Armenians, Syriacs, Melkites, Ukranians, etc, etc. We have all been able to go beyond our parochialisms, our local Traditions, our local spiritualities, our local theologies, our local practices, beyond what makes us distinct, and find what it is that unites us as apostolic Christians - the FAITH.

Blessings,
Marduk

I am SO late to this, but :clapping: to this. Good show, my friend.

 

[Ken_Taki]

They are proud because they had many bishops during the East-West schism and they believe they are in the right. Theologically, they are very similar to Catholics, and are closer to Catholicism than most Protestant denominations.

But they forget something important: numbers don’t matter. In the Early Church at one point up to 70% of bishops were teaching heresy. Those who stayed in Communion with the Bishop of Rome did not fall into heresy, and the other bishops eventually followed suit and came back into communion with Rome.

What matters is whether or not you are following God’s Church. But since their teachings aren’t that different from Catholics (mostly cultural differences), the Catholic Church sees both Orthodoxy and Catholicism and left and right lungs of the Church/body of Christ/etc.

I also think they have good reason to be proud. They managed to preserve teachings well over the centuries, and they (unlike protestants) maintained apostolic succession and valid holy orders. They do not let modern (New Age, political correctness movement) stuff influence them into heresy.

Pride is a sin. Apart from HIM they could do nothing. See psalm 127 and John 15:5.