I was wrong about Harry Potter

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Bob, I’m really surprised at you.

It’s one thing to have a decent discussion. It’s another to take your defense of one book by mocking another author, another story and its characters, and a person who is disagreeing with one PARTICULAR THING which you have still not addressed:

Hermione’s lie to McGonagill and the other teachers in Book 1.
The author here has portrayed how real live children actually behave. (Yes - even your kids.)

No one - nobody - not one person - has ever claimed that the Harry Potter series was intended as a Christian morality tale (unlike The Chronicles of Narnia which in fact is intended to be imitated by Christian children) so it seems a bit disingenuous to try to say, “Well, Harry Potter is guilty of false advertising and is therefore evil, because Hermoine tells lies, etc.”

Of course she does - that’s what makes her realistic, and easy for kids to identify with.
 
No, no, no. . .you simply aren’t getting it, JM.

I don’t see how I could be any clearer but obviously people have really, really ‘misread’ my posts.

I do NOT think the Harry Potter series is evil or demonic.

I do NOT have any personal vendetta against anyone.

I have READ all 7 books. There are sections in all of them that I thought were well written. There are a few characters I thought exceptionally well written (one or two likeable, one or two not).

Speaking for myself, ONLY for myself, out of many years of experience in both the education and the literary field as well as prayerfully considering this work (as I consider any literary work which either I, or others, have noted to be making an impact on people), I have some concerns in some PARTICULAR scenes or characters which on thorough re-reading and evaluation raise some ‘issues’ with me from the standpoint, not ‘merely’ of a Catholic mother, but as a human being.

Now I could be wrong. (I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again before I die, no question). But I just did not see, from that ‘lie’ in book 1 through the rest of the series, the kind of ‘moral foundation’ that should be in a work that is purported to be of the magnitude and IMPACT and INFLUENCE on not just children but ‘everybody’, and that IS in similar works. And so I wonder, is this a ‘new’ development? Is this indicative that a sizeable majority of people have accepted that the moral foundation of humanity has ‘changed’? Is J.K. merely reflecting that change passively, or more actively? What does that mean for any of us?

Are there many, perhaps most, for whom this more ‘relative’ morality and its purported “realistic example” is perfectly acceptable? Perhaps the ‘old style’ morality I was taught and continue to teach is ‘impossible’ in that I’ve certainly never been ‘sinless’. But I do think that the ‘new style’ morality where we tacitly ‘acknowledge’ that ‘kids will lie, and that’s just the way things are’ is just going to keep on producing more and more kids who don’t even TRY ‘not’ to lie. After all, I’ve seen that effect now for 30 years. . .Our expectations for our kids and ourselves is pitiable. We EXPECT our kids will have sex so we hand out condoms. We EXPECT they’ll cheat on exams so we either go ‘pass/fail’, inflate grades, or throw up our hands. But how often do we tell them “no?”

If what they see, and hear, is that “kids will lie, and that’s just the way things are”. . .that message is nihilistic. And that IS a sea change from "Kids may lie, since human nature is fallible, but we should all try to speak the truth, because lies are painful and damaging not just to the one lying, but to everyone, and not just ‘here’, but in the life to come’.
 
Speaking for myself, ONLY for myself, out of many years of experience in both the education and the literary field as well as prayerfully considering this work (as I consider any literary work which either I, or others, have noted to be making an impact on people), I have some concerns in some PARTICULAR scenes or characters which on thorough re-reading and evaluation raise some ‘issues’ with me from the standpoint, not ‘merely’ of a Catholic mother, but as a human being.
That’s completely fair. Nobody is asking you to like the books, or to give them to your kids if you don’t like them. Nobody is saying, “Harry Potter is great literature, and will be the required reading for Grade 7 English this year.” Not at all. It’s just one of the many books out there that we can choose from - or not - as we like.
Now I could be wrong. (I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again before I die, no question). But I just did not see, from that ‘lie’ in book 1 through the rest of the series, the kind of ‘moral foundation’ that should be in a work that is purported to be of the magnitude and IMPACT and INFLUENCE on not just children but ‘everybody’, and that IS in similar works.
How are you getting that idea? This is a book series that was written by a woman who was bored and had nothing else to do at the time. She amused herself by finishing it and sending it in to a publisher, and for whatever reason, someone liked it, and it got published, and then someone thought it was “demonic” and published something to that effect, thus providing controversy and free advertising, so everyone had to buy a copy to see what the fuss was about.

That’s all. Nobody, ever, intended this book to be a “classic of English literature,” or a “model” of anything, or a “morality tale” of any kind, etc. She wrote it to entertain herself, and she published it because she wanted to see what would happen (never expecting anything in particular to happen) and the rest is history.
And so I wonder, is this a ‘new’ development? Is this indicative that a sizeable majority of people have accepted that the moral foundation of humanity has ‘changed’? Is J.K. merely reflecting that change passively, or more actively? What does that mean for any of us?
Let me ask you something else - what are your thoughts about Anne of Green Gables? (Though portrayed as a Protestant Christian, she worships dryads - tree spirits. This is portrayed as normal teenage girl behaviour in the books.)

What about The Secret Garden? Mary and Colin lie not only to the governess, but also to Colin’s doctor about his condition, and not only is this portrayed as normal, it’s even lauded as “healthy” when the doctor finally realizes what’s going on - Mary is praised for sneaking Colin out into the garden, while pretending to nurse him at his sick-bed. Only the governess (who is portrayed as being the next-best thing to a child-eating witch) points out that if Colin had, in fact, been suffering from the condition for which he had been diagnosed, Mary’s actions would likely have killed him. But the doctor reproves her for being too strict with the children.

And what about Peter Pan? Where to even begin, with Peter Pan? 🤷 Kidnapping, extortion, lying, running away, murder, and suicide - all portrayed as, if not good, at least as normal.

The Wizard of Oz has similar problems.

All of these books were written approximately 100 years ago, and for similar reasons to why Harry Potter was written. Somehow, they became classics of children’s literature, but not because they portrayed Christian morality, or taught children the proper way to behave in society.
 
In my case my daughter recommended the books to me and then I read them. Of course since then i have joined a coven and practice black magic in my basement but that another story…
Thats what you get for listening to your daughter! What do kids know? They lie to teachers and authoritive figures all the time.
 
The Wizard of Oz has similar problems.
Today we will tackle one of the most insidious children’s books of all time. It was also made in a movie that helped propel the star of World War II.

I am speaking of the Wizard of Oz. It’s plot revolves around a young girl who ,having consistently flouted County leash laws, runs away keep from having her vicious dog put in the pound. She soon finds herself in a magical land where she proceeds to kill two loving sisters, one to steal her shoes and the other to keep her from burning infected straw that causes those exposed to it to dance like marionettes on a string & sing silly songs.

Having dispatched the two sisters she proceeds to help the Wizard of Oz defraud her “friends” - giving a fake diploma to a scarecrow, engages in medical malpractice by giving the tin man a nonfunctioning heart and sets a Lion up for sure death next time he is in a battle when he finds out a fake medal bestows no courage on him.

The movie also demeans short people, contain gross cruelty to animals in scenes were fake wings were glued on monkeys and the monkeys and thrown off the parapets of a castle and, promotes pollution when “Surrender Dorothy” is written in the sky in toxic smoke .

To top it all off after putting her companions through pure hell ,convincing than she needed their help to get home , it turns out she could’ve gotten home any time she wanted with help from no one.

Germany ,seing the great harm this movie could cause its children invaded Poland to keep the movie from opening there bringing about World War II.
 
Quote: “The whole book is based on the premise that the end justifies the means. Accordingly the fact that children ultimately end up hacking characters to death with broadswords and/or beating them to them death with rocks is presented as something good. The lead Character in this bizarre land of magic rips the only adult women in this book to shreds-with his teeth! And as in Harry Potter there are undertones of homosexuality. Just why does the author had the children coming out of the closet at books end?”

I know I’m showing my age but did anyone ever grow up on the Gladiator movies, christians being fed to the lions, heads ripped off, people used as spear targets, burned alive drawn and quartered by horses ect.? Dracula the demon sucking blood, the wolfman? They were all movies seen in a theatre in the 60’s & 70’s. Never heard a word about the above. I turned out ok.
 
Quote: “The whole book is based on the premise that the end justifies the means. Accordingly the fact that children ultimately end up hacking characters to death with broadswords and/or beating them to them death with rocks is presented as something good. The lead Character in this bizarre land of magic rips the only adult women in this book to shreds-with his teeth! And as in Harry Potter there are undertones of homosexuality. Just why does the author had the children coming out of the closet at books end?”

I know I’m showing my age but did anyone ever grow up on the Gladiator movies, christians being fed to the lions, heads ripped off, people used as spear targets, burned alive drawn and quartered by horses ect.? Dracula the demon sucking blood, the wolfman? They were all movies seen in a theatre in the 60’s & 70’s. Never heard a word about the above. I turned out ok.
Ah yes-Hammer Films. my favorites! The more bosom you showed the more likely you were to get attacked by a vampire!

Of course they messed me up so bad I like Harry Potter!
 
It probably would have been better if he had put the “winkie” in the post or title… It is SO difficult to show true satire in print.

I think the HP series was wonderful. A true “good vs. evil” series with very human characteristics involved (even those of troubled teenagers). Do you have a “Lord Voldemort” in your life? How about a Dursley? We could only hope to have friends as true as Ron or Hermione.
Thank you! I am a staunch defender of the series, even going so far as to cancel my membership with the American Life Leage after they ran a bogus story on the series last November. (One reply to the magazine is at little_princess.bravejournal.com/entry/26056)

Anyone who thinks the Potter series evil needs to read the series and consider the message it truly conveys.
 
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