I went to Latin Mass this Sunday. I like the NO better

[gemtwin84]

East and West,

Personally, I cannot wait for the eventual demise of the Novus Ordo (in all its sacramental forms), since it is an inorganic development. Aside from many other reasons, I feel that that alone is reason enough to hope it fades into history. But I understand not everyone feels the same way, and you can’t force anyone to think anything, so to each his own. Though I do think not EVERYTHING that’s come out of the Novus Ordo is negative in and of itself, and we can take these few positive changes and implement them into the TLM, and have the best of both worlds: a totally organic liturgical development, incorporating the positive things that are usually closely associated with the Novus Ordo.

Could you explain to me a little better what you mean about the NO being an inorganic development but then later in your post refer to the blending of the NO and the TLM as a totally organic development.

Does the TLM involve some “magic” in turning anything related to the NO as from inorganic to organic?

I’m just trying to understand your point.

 

[East_and_West]

East and West,

Don’t take this the wrong way, as it is NO reflection on you at all, but sometimes I find that it takes a more mature spirituality to get into the TLM (especially if it’s a Low Mass) than the Novus Ordo, because not everything is done for you in the TLM. It takes resolve to read all the prayers in the missal, really focus, really intensely involve yourself in prayer that is, as I said in a Low Mass, often not acted out with the voice, which tends to keep you awake more easily. It’s much easier to HAVE to get up and sing than to have the spiritual strength of praying very fervently but silently for awhile.

This may be true. I certainly make no claim to being a Saint. But I do know that God has definitely been very invovled in my life, always guiding me gently. As for needing more work, you are right. The TLM does take alot more. Personally, I found the the need to look through the missal to understand what the priest was saying to be very distracting. Maybe, God willing, I will be able to learn Latin someday and not need the missal. However, I wouldn’t have a problem with TLM being translated into English to avoid this distraction.

That’s why I much prefer High Mass or, ideally, Solemn Mass. First, Solemn Mass is the normative form of celebration for the TLM. Secondly, you have to chant, stand, kneel, etc. and there’s always incense swinging or the schola chanting to keep you awake.

I prefer high masses as well. The more reverent the better. I guess, the biggest distraction at the TLM, for me, is the Latin.

Personally, I cannot wait for the eventual demise of the Novus Ordo (in all its sacramental forms), since it is an inorganic development. Aside from many other reasons, I feel that that alone is reason enough to hope it fades into history. But I understand not everyone feels the same way, and you can’t force anyone to think anything, so to each his own. Though I do think not EVERYTHING that’s come out of the Novus Ordo is negative in and of itself, and we can take these few positive changes and implement them into the TLM, and have the best of both worlds: a totally organic liturgical development, incorporating the positive things that are usually closely associated with the Novus Ordo.

I would prefer a mass with more theologically rich prayers and a deeper sense of reverance; however, Latin is just too distracting for me for the entire mass. I love to pray in Latin when I can, but there is something very helpful about having the mass in English.

 

[JuanCarlos]

I tend to nod off a bit at Novus Ordo’s; the language seems like it was designed for children, and because its not in Latin there’s no excuse to bring a Missal and follow it word for word. And there’s so many options and ad-libs the priest can (or can’t but does) do that even an english NO missal would be somewhat useless.

Like an above poster, I hope that the NO is eventually killed off, or if not tremendously reformed.

 

[Alexios]

Could you explain to me a little better what you mean about the NO being an inorganic development but then later in your post refer to the blending of the NO and the TLM as a totally organic development.

Does the TLM involve some “magic” in turning anything related to the NO as from inorganic to organic?

I’m just trying to understand your point.

Well, there are certain changes that can be done to the Mass that are not themselves inorganic. It’s not like the Mass is never-changing; obviously that’s not the case; the Traditional Mass is not the same exact Mass as it was in 200 AD, or even 900 AD. But I meant things that are normally closely associated with the Novus Ordo, but are not intrinsic to it. Like, for example, the Dialogue Mass. This can be done in the TLM (and was increasingly populare during the 40s and 50s), and in fact I find that most modern-day traditional communities try and employ the Dialogue Mass. Many other things, like taking Communion under both forms could be organically developed. But when a Mass is written by “experts,” it is definitely not organic. We are not talking about little changes here and there, like Dialogue or, say, making the Last Gospel or birettas optional or something like that; what we have now is a completely new creation. So taking things like congregational participation and implementing them in the TLM would be organic. Completely denuding a form of worship and protestantizing it would not be.

 

[Auntie_A]

I can understand the feeling of being “left out” by the Latin mass at first. But I too have felt it begin to grow in me. Over time, the prayers began to take hold inside and really bring me peace.

Also, unlike most churches that have separate masses in English, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Italian, Portuguese, etc., the Latin mass can work for anyone, anywhere in the world.

 

[Crumpy]

I don’t know that TLM is offered in my diocese; it certainly has not been played up in my parish.

There are apparently many forms of TLM. The one that was on EWTN, a solemn Mass, a couple months ago, had a lot of needless detail that I NEVER saw in my parish. There were only two forms of TLM, the low Mass (not sung) and the high Mass, which was sung.

On All Souls Day, the priests used to be able to say three consecutive Latin Masses, which they did in about one hour. At that speed, it would be difficult to keep up with the reading of the English in a “daily and Sunday Missal” which we used to pray from at Mass.

You need to have at least a 40-min TLM, to read and absorb the English forms of the prayers the priest is saying. The beauty and devotion comes from the more extensive detail of TLM, such as the opening prayer “at the foot of the altar” and “the last Gospel.”

Back then, some of the priests would be literally waving their hands, in lieu of some reverent gestures that were to be made. The last blessing sometimes resembled the priest swatting at flies.

Prayer books were illustrated, showing the priest’s location and pose, to help you identify the page you should be on.

The people often assumed a position of kneeling, or often slouching to a half-sitting, half-kneeling position, for a good part of the Mass. It’s not for me to judge if the people were really praying.

People really knew the choreography and would praise the altar boys for doing their roles well.

 

[Mike_Searson]

I go to both. I grew up in the Post V2 Church. I guess I was very lucky in that the first 18 years of my life were very conservative NO Masses.I served on the altar, went to seminary, etc. I heard all of the lies back then (and still hear them from time to time) about the Latin Mass being outlawed, forbidden, etc.I went to my first Latin Mass in 1989 while on leave in the Marines to go to a wedding.

Because I could speak Latin, I loved it and thought it was beautiful. I found out later it was an SSPV Mass. (Sede) Years later after living in the SF Bay Area, I encountered the other type of NO Mass…the “hootenanny” types and even worse…the “Protest Masses” were the pastor told how evil the military was on the weekend of veteran’s day!

I then found the Indult and love it more every time I go. I do attend an NO Mass when the weather is severe (my Indult Mass is in the Sierra in an area subject to heavy snow, high winds, etc) and either go to a very early and somewhat conservative Mass close by…or to the Cathederal where Mass is offered by the Franciscans.

I love both Forms of the Mass…but prefer the Latin. I’m thankful that the lies have been disspelled and we can now have both. I’ll be happier when the newest translation of the NO comes out with more Latin in the Mass and a more accurate wording!