I wish I could believe

[ObsessiveCynic]

My worldview has been strongly materialist since I left my baptist upbringing at 13. I have been described as the most cynical person people have ever met, and my talent for removing the humanity from a situation has been noted. I’m the person that sees an article about “an improvement in cancer survival rates” and considers the reasons the methodology is flawed. With me the other shoe is always about to drop.

Death terrifies me. The most dreaded moments of my life are the deaths of my parents, followed by the shear terror of knowing I will pass within days. The typical answers of “it will be just like before you were born” and “they probably won’t be lucid” does nothing for me. Seeing my parents health decline (they waited until late 30s to start a family) is a constant reminder. Today my dad experienced excruciating pain from what we assume is a pinched nerve and is probably still trying to sleep in the next room. (I’m guessing you can tell I wasn’t pre-med )

The meaningless terrifies me. I think of all the suffering and triumphs through history, and the idea that it is all dust in the wind deeply bothers me. I am leaning more towards the idea that free will is an illusion, and no amount of quantum mechanics or compatibilism has convinced or soothed me otherwise.

That is a pattern, of receiving no relief. I feel convinced that NDEs are random brain activity, that miracles have physical explanations, prayer is just words, and reincarnation studies are flawed/fabricated. I do not mean to imply that you believe in all these, nor too insult you, just to paint a mind picture.

I am not under the impression that religion, catholicism or otherwise, will cure me. I have seen people battle the dark night of the soul, and endure long periods of desolation. I have also seen the other side of faith. I tried multiple religious groups in college, but only catholicism and eastern orthodoxy had any appeal. Catholicism felt less foreign and there were more catholics around anyway. I went through RCIA twice, but I never got over the whole “god exists” part so I was never baptized. My best friends are Catholic. I don’t discuss these things with them because I feel embarrassed when I cry or am visibly anxious. The priest was one of the most impressive people I ever met. Wickedly intelligent, but he could see right through people’s emotions in a way that freaked me out.

I wish I had a rock to cling to, even if its one I doubt from time to time. I can see the beauty and moments of happiness and deep down I want some of it. I want this direction but my mind fights every step of the way.

If you made it this far, thank you. I want to see if anyone here came to faith with a background like mine, and if there is anything you recommend I do. I will be reading “The Last Superstition” soon as the priest recommended it. I hope I did not offend.

 

[drac16]

I won’t ask you to convert here and now, but I would say that you should explore what faith you have. I used to be an atheist, so I can understand why you are skeptical about religion. I was an atheist for three and a half years. Religions can be dangerous things, because they can tap into a part of the brain that makes them do terrible things (like Charles Manson’s cult).

It’s easy to write off all religions as being evil or hungry for money, but not all faiths are like that. The Bible was written by men who walked, talked and learned from God. They have different experiences with the Lord, but they do not contradict each other. They reveal different aspects of God. After all, if you have an experience with the Almighty, you can’t help but be changed.

I hope you consider staying at this forum. We’d be happy to discuss theology or pray for you.

 

[TheIttyBitty]

Have you considered just praying, such as praying the Rosary every day for a year…and see where you are emotionally and mentally in a year, and you’ll see if there are any changes in your faith.

Either way, I will pray for you.

 

[Limoncello4021]

The best thing you can do is to start to pray and to read the New Testament with an open mind. God wants you to believe, just as you want to believe, but you’ve got to have an open heart to let Him in. Invite Him in. It doesn’t have to be a big deal for you to do this, but try it for 15 minutes a day and be sincere about it. I will pray for you.

 

[FiveLinden]

The meaningless terrifies me. I think of all the suffering and triumphs through history, and the idea that it is all dust in the wind deeply bothers me.

Disclaimer: I am not believer. I’m asking some questions here to better understand your beliefs, I am not suggesting the OP or anyone else agree with me.

What exactly do you mean by ‘meaning’. It seems to me that by this people often mean ‘intended by a powerful being other than us’. I am not sure how this adds ‘meaning’. I have no religious beliefs and don’t feel the absence of any ‘meaning’ - just an interest in things we don’t yet know about how the universe works.

And why would death terrify you? Are you terrified by the deaths of every other living thing? You and I were both dead for billion of years before we were born. I don’t recall it being a problem then!

 

[Vico]

… I went through RCIA twice, but I never got over the whole “god exists” part so I was never baptized. My best friends are Catholic. …
…
If you made it this far, thank you. I want to see if anyone here came to faith with a background like mine, and if there is anything you recommend I do. I will be reading “The Last Superstition” soon as the priest recommended it. I hope I did not offend.

I had a time of great doubt about God in my teens, but recovered. The watchmaker analogy helped me, being of a scientific mind.

Cynical, noun, means (Merriam-Webster) having or showing the attitude or temper of a cynic such as
1a) contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives
1b) based on or reflecting a belief that human conduct is motivated primarily by self-interest

The attitude you describe sounds like hopelessness. Now, hope is a theological virtue that is a gift (grace) of God. For one that is not certain of God, there is more fear. From a Catholic theological perspective is taught that the theological virtues are faith, hope, and charity, and that these are infused into the faithful and it brings an increase of hope, and hope is contrary to despair and presumption.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1812 The human virtues are rooted in the theological virtues, which adapt man’s faculties for participation in the divine nature: …

1813 The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. …

1843 By hope we desire, and with steadfast trust await from God, eternal life and the graces to merit it.

2091 The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:

By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God’s goodness, to his justice - for the Lord is faithful to his promises - and to his mercy.

2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

 

[DeniseNY]

Mark 9:24

“I believe; help my unbelief!”

 

[ReaderT]

My worldview has been strongly materialist since I left my baptist upbringing at 13. I have been described as the most cynical person people have ever met, and my talent for removing the humanity from a situation has been noted.

Materialism - the belief that “all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions” - is based on scientism (the scientific method, etc.), which in turn is based on induction, which is philosophically flawed.

Science teaches that if an experiment is repeatable enough times (e.g. an apple drops to earth when released from a height), then we make hypotheses / theorems / laws about why this is (gravity). But as Hume pointed out: just because something has repeated does not mean it must in the future - it’s not obliged to. For example, just because the sun has risen every day for millions of years does not mean it always has to - and we know one day it won’t when it becomes a red giant.

We believe that God made the world and the laws of nature, but “when God wills it, nature’s laws are overcome” - the virgin birth, water into wine, etc.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You seem to be spending a lot of energy on being anxious and terrified. That’s no way to live. I couldn’t get through my days if I had to live that way.

“Pray, hope, and don’t worry.” - St. Padre Pio

I will pray that God sends his Holy Spirit to help you.

 

[aroosi]

I was reading what you wrote and suddenly came to mind 1Corinthians 1 17-30.
Your desire to believe is already prayer.
Maybe If you live near a Catholic Church just step inside during the day and spend few minutes quietly in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Leave for few moments outside all your worries and fears, and just stay in the presence of God.
Keeping you in my prayers.

 

[Beryllos]

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums.

Your title and first post remind me of a quotation from Saint Augustine: "You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.”

You might be looking for proof of God’s existence in science and logic, but there are other ways.

That’s not to say that science and reason are incompatible with faith. I’m a scientist, and the more I learn, the more I see God’s glory in nature. To take one small example: The chaotic, degenerative processes of genetic damage through radioactivity and transcription errors, that is, mutation, make evolution possible. This literally draws order from chaos. It literally took minerals, water, and air, and made them into beings that can think and love and wonder.

The cynic says, “The glass is half empty. All this can be explained by science. That’s all there is.”

The other guy says, "The glass is half full. There is order, beauty, and love, which are not adequately explained by science. What else is there?

So follow your restless heart. You might always be restless and troubled with doubts – I have moments of doubt too – but try to nourish and grow whatever faith you have. Spend less time looking for reasons to deny and doubt. Spend more time looking for reasons to believe, hope, and love.

 

[Horton]

You do not offend at all. Our thinking can mess us up. Fortunately we can change our thinking. Going through RCIA twice you have at the very least basic knowledge of the Church. The existence of God remains the problem. Thomas Aquinas developed Five Proofs, copied below. They may offer some insight or not.

Aquinas’s Five Proofs for the Existence of God

The Summa Theologica is a famous work written by Saint Thomas Aquinas between AD 1265 and 1274.

It is divided into three main parts and covers all of the core theological teachings of Aquinas’s time. One of the questions the Summa
Theologica is well known for addressing is the question of the existence of God. Aquinas responds to this question by offering the following five proofs:

1. The Argument from Motion: Our senses can perceive motion by seeing that things act on one another. Whatever moves is moved by something else. Consequently, there must be a First Mover that creates this chain reaction of motions. This is God. God sets all things in motion and gives them their potential.
2. The Argument from Efficient Cause: Because nothing can cause itself, everything must have a cause or something that creates an effect on an other thing. Without a first cause, there would be no others. Therefore, the First Cause is God.
3. The Argument from Necessary Being: Because objects in the world come into existence and pass out of it, it is possible for those objects to exist or not exist at any particular time. However, nothing can come from nothing. This means something must exist at all times. This is God.
4. The Argument from Gradation: There are different degrees of goodness in different things. Following the “Great Chain of Being,” which states there is a gradual increase in complexity, created objects move from unformed inorganic matter to biologically complex organisms. Therefore, there must be a being of the highest form of good. This perfect being is God.
5. The Argument from Design: All things have an order or arrangement that leads them to a particular goal. Because the order of the universe cannot be the result of chance, design and purpose must be at work. This implies divine intelligence on the part of the designer. This is God.

I’ve never doubted the existence of God, but I have doubt his presence in my life, thinking I was a waste of time to him, he only worked with the “good” people. Of course I found God to be much different and on reflection I could see the many times he worked in my life with no acknowledgement from me.
Continued

 

[Horton]

Part 2

Here are a couple more things to try. They may sound corny but it may start to change your thinking about the existence of God. Go to the link below and just look at these newborns. Yes they are cute, some look a bit gross, because they’re not cleaned up yet, but that is not what I want you to see. I want you to think about how could it be. Here is a tiny human who is a perfect mixture of a woman’s DNA and a man’s DNA. This tiny person has all the organs it will need to live a long full life, his/her brain, will cause all of his/her development to happen at the appropriate stages of life. He/she will grow to an adult then stop, through adulthood he/she will go through changes according to the stages of life until they have reached their end. https://www.google.com/search?q=new...XoJ4KHYYfBHsQrNwCKAB6BAgBEG8&biw=1349&bih=657
How does this happen? It can’t really be explained away as it just does. Reproduction happens with all living things, from the tiniest creatures in the ocean to the largest organisms on the planted. While all are similar, none are the exact same.

I can give you all kinds of religious advice to convince you God exists but I believe you need a more concrete method to believe.

The priest was one of the most impressive people I ever met. Wickedly intelligent, but he could see right through people’s emotions in a way that freaked me out.

The second thing I would do is spend some time talking with this priest. Make an appointment to see him. The reason he freaks you out is the very reason you need to work with him.

I will pray for you. Please let us know how you are doing.

 

[rosejmj]

I agree. Meaning can be something you choose for your life. Honestly, life’s feel much more meaningful outside of religion because I feel like I have more independence and freedom to choose and I am not solely focused on praying and spirituality but on relationships, my education, professional life, serving others… all those things and more can contribute to who you become and are and what you choose to do with your life and give many ways for one’s life to be meaningful. Work towards something and focus on others

 

[Raxus]

I wish I had a rock to cling to, even if its one I doubt from time to time. I can see the beauty and moments of happiness and deep down I want some of it. I want this direction but my mind fights every step of the way.

Live as though you believe, even if you don’t, if that’s what you want. Belief isn’t a switch in the mind, it’s a choice we make every day. Start small if needs be, but just live it. You don’t need to feel something in your mind right away to accomplish it in your life; you don’t “feel thin” on the beginning of a weight-loss journey, for example.

Good luck to you.

 

[Dan_Defender]

OP, from your post you seem to reject both atheism and deism. So what is left? only a sense of hoplessness bordering on despair. You need to pick yourself up and start over your search for the Truth, IMO.

 

[ObsessiveCynic]

I would say I am an agnostic that doesn’t like the idea of “the void”.

 

[ObsessiveCynic]

In my understanding, human minds work on narratives. Determinism and materialism destroy all the narratives that don’t scare/disturb me, leaving me deeply unsatisfied. For me It’s not about having a sky father, but issues such as having a basis for right and wrong that goes beyond mere evolutionary expediency (among other things).

And why would death terrify you? Are you terrified by the deaths of every other living thing? You and I were both dead for billion of years before we were born. I don’t recall it being a problem then!

I have not dug into it but that was never any comfort to me, as I said in my opening.

Thank you though.

 

[ObsessiveCynic]

I get this suggestion often, but I wonder if this just hacks the brain the same way “fake it till you make it” does. I would have been eternally single without that trick lol.

Thank You

 

[ObsessiveCynic]

Thank You.

Yeah I am reading feser to get a better look at the thomist arguments. I find that I need a lot more elaboration than most in order to make up my mind on things. So I will read a couple books.

As for the newborns, developmental and evolutionary biology is an interest of mine. Cells and tissues are amazingly intricate, and knowing some of the explanations doesn’t lessen the wow factor. It does make me see it in a less spiritual way though. Personally, If the divine exists I see no reason it could not have just set the billiards and pressed “play”.

Unfortunately I have moved since and he may be getting a new assignment.