ID KO'd in Pennsylvania

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Orogeny

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The final nail in the Dover case. First, the board members who supported teaching ID were fired (voted out of office) by those they were elected to serve. Now a federal judge has put the last nail in that coffin. Judge John Jones, in Katzmiller vs Dover Area School District, has ruled that ID may not be taught in science class. Here is a link to his decision:
msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/051220_kitzmiller_342.pdf

Here are some of his comments:
Plaintiffs accurately submit that the disclaimer mimics the one that the Fifth Circuit struck down as unconstitutional in Freiler in two key aspects. First, while encouraging students to keep an open mind and explore alternatives to evolution, it offers no scientific alternative; instead, the only alternative offered is an inherently religious one, namely, ID.
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The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.
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Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.
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Peace

Tim
 
For some reason I don’t think that this will be the last you hear of them. It’ll probably irratate them even more that this decision was made 5 days before Christmas. It’ll probably pull the two sides farther apart, as the IDers feel that the academics, scientists, and judges are even more smug now and have an even greater distrust.
 
Now we need to move the Darwinistic faith out to.

Like I have often said - teach it in a separate metaphysics class.
 
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buffalo:
Now we need to move the Darwinistic faith out to.

Like I have often said - teach it in a separate metaphysics class.
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All you need to do now, buffalo, is convince the judge that you are right!😉

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
All you need to do now, buffalo, is convince the judge that you are right!😉

Peace

Tim
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It is unlikely I will convince those liberal supreme being judges. 😉 Can I count on your support?🙂
 
This decision has renewed my faith in our legal system. Today is a great day for our education system. Everyone who understands the difference between science and theology should rejoice.
 
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buffalo:
It is unlikely I will convince those liberal supreme being judges. 😉 Can I count on your support?🙂
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Sure! Just as soon as you convince me that evolution is a religion!😃
Peace

Tim
 
ID might be KO’d in Penn, but don’t count it out. 10 post on this thread in less than a half an hour, I think it retains its controversial issue status. Methinks it’ll rear it’s head once again in another place.
 
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jman507:
ID might be KO’d in Penn, but don’t count it out. 10 post on this thread in less than a half an hour, I think it retains its controversial issue status. Methinks it’ll rear it’s head once again in another place.
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Unfortunately, it already has. Can you say Kansas?

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
Kinda hard to prove God scientifically, ain’t it?

Peace

Tim
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We can discover God through reason. Since God transcends all and is author of all, both true science and theology speak about Him. Additionally, since God is author of science He can be found through science also.
 
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Orogeny:
Sure! Just as soon as you convince me that evolution is a religion!😃
Peace

Tim
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Until evolution is empirically indisputable it is. Did that help? Will you join me now? 🙂
 
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buffalo:
Additionally, since God is author of science He can be found through science also.
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Cool. What test should I use? Which of the sciences is most appropriate for this testing?

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
Cool. What test should I use? Which of the sciences is most appropriate for this testing?

Peace

Tim
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Tim, you seem to be an innovative and learned guy. Open your mind for a minute and make some suggestions.

How might we find God through science?
 
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buffalo:
Tim, you seem to be an innovative and learned guy. Open your mind for a minute and make some suggestions.

How might we find God through science?
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I am opening my mind. I want to learn. Since you know how to test for God using science, I’m all ears.

As far as my suggestions go, I really, honestly, don’t know how you could possibly test for a supernatural being when science is the study of natural things. But that is why I asked!

Peace

Tim
 
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buffalo:
What would it take?
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You would need to convince me that you are right and my science education was wrong. Of course, then I will be depressed with the knowledge that I could have spent even more time drinking rather than learning in college!😃

Peace

Tim
 
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