ID KO'd in Pennsylvania

[abcdefg]

new theory: old earth, fast formation
english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/16692_Earth.html

so there’re following theories regarding earth:
young earth, fast formation
old earth, slow formation
old earth, fast formation

 

[Isidore_AK]

abcdefg:

new theory: old earth, fast formation
english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/16692_Earth.html

so there’re following theories regarding earth:
young earth, fast formation
old earth, slow formation
old earth, fast formation

This same article is serious about studying ancient cultures like that of the Atlanteans…

 

[cathologos]

I don’t think there’s much question but that Darwinism – and intellectual rigor generally – are on the defensive in America. It’s not something I’d get enthusiastic about, though – we’ll just become a large, continental second-world nation, with nukes and fond memories of when we led the world.

It’s amazing to me how many Americans who consider themselves educated are afraid of ideas – how many Americans would rather believe mythology (and 6000-year-ago creationism is mythology, folks) than common sense and established knowledge. This is true of Catholics as well as evangelical protestants. I’m not talking about well-catechized Catholics here – but the multitude of Catholics who have little or no idea what the Church really teaches, and who have bought into the anti-intellectual, anti-rational arguments of the evangelicals.

I was amused by abc…'s question about “Which human race is superior? Which is inferior?” There’s only one human species – “race” is in large part an artifice of perception – it’s very difficult to define “races” genetically. This is one of those things that science teaches us – that “race” doesn’t mean much. We could, of course, throw this knowledge out the window, along with all our understanding that comes from genetics and evolutionary theory.

I am continually struck by the overall minimal level of comprehension on these boards – of evolutionary theory and of science generally, but about many other things as well. Ignorance is rampant here…which I guess is reflective of how ignorant Americans in general are about…well, about pretty much everything.

At times, I’ve felt tempted to try to correct blatant errors – but what I see here is that folks are not only ignorant, they’re determined to hang on to their ignorance. They don’t want to learn; their minds are not open – it comes back to the rejection of ideas, without consideration or testing. Common sense gets drowned out by thousand-word long screeds of utter foolishness.

As a result, I don’t post here much. There doesn’t seem to be much point.

 

[abcdefg]

cathologos:

I don’t think…

evolution is a mythology which has no scientific prove. current “proves” are like this: see this series
1,2,3…
what’s the next number? you say it’s 4, I can say it’s 5 as in Fibonacci series.

What the Church teaches? read Humani Generis. Darwinism random evolution which is the focus of the discussion is condemned by Pope Pius XII.

According to Darwinism ET I’ve learned humans originates in different parts of the world. africa and asia for example. there’s no possibility human evolved independantly end up in the same quality. do you Africans are inferior than Asians or vice versa?
races = Germans, Jews, Asians, Africans, Slavs… each is independant of others. it’s certain, according to ET, some will miss a possitive mutation or have an inferior mutation and end up as inferior.

about common insulting of creationism/ID supporters as “ignorance”, I would rather live naked in the Eden garden rather than as a wise man here. however since I’m here now, I pray God give me wisdom to refute anti-God, anti-Church propagandas.
Believing in God is more important than being smart. God will give people wisdom when they need it for just purposes.

 

[rlg94086]

Wow! I’m glad you have it all figured out. It must be great knowing everything.

I’ll just go back to carvin’ my pointed stick to use as a tool, since I ain’t got no sense in my head…

cathologos:

I don’t think there’s much question but that Darwinism – and intellectual rigor generally – are on the defensive in America. It’s not something I’d get enthusiastic about, though – we’ll just become a large, continental second-world nation, with nukes and fond memories of when we led the world.

It’s amazing to me how many Americans who consider themselves educated are afraid of ideas – how many Americans would rather believe mythology (and 6000-year-ago creationism is mythology, folks) than common sense and established knowledge. This is true of Catholics as well as evangelical protestants. I’m not talking about well-catechized Catholics here – but the multitude of Catholics who have little or no idea what the Church really teaches, and who have bought into the anti-intellectual, anti-rational arguments of the evangelicals.

I was amused by abc…'s question about “Which human race is superior? Which is inferior?” There’s only one human species – “race” is in large part an artifice of perception – it’s very difficult to define “races” genetically. This is one of those things that science teaches us – that “race” doesn’t mean much. We could, of course, throw this knowledge out the window, along with all our understanding that comes from genetics and evolutionary theory.

I am continually struck by the overall minimal level of comprehension on these boards – of evolutionary theory and of science generally, but about many other things as well. Ignorance is rampant here…which I guess is reflective of how ignorant Americans in general are about…well, about pretty much everything.

At times, I’ve felt tempted to try to correct blatant errors – but what I see here is that folks are not only ignorant, they’re determined to hang on to their ignorance. They don’t want to learn; their minds are not open – it comes back to the rejection of ideas, without consideration or testing. Common sense gets drowned out by thousand-word long screeds of utter foolishness.

As a result, I don’t post here much. There doesn’t seem to be much point.

 

[abcdefg]

Most discussions lately become evolution supporters insulting creationism/ID supporter as “ignorance” “don’t understand science”. what a coincidence when teachers taught evolution theory to me they also call creationism/ID supporters by the same names.

its spreading does not rely on how much truth it contains but on attacking human’s self-pride of afraid of being called an idiot. effectively the same way snake lure Adam and Eve to eat forbidden fruits.

When did everyone realizes human without God can go nowhere?

 

[Orogeny]

abcdefg:

Some quotes from scientists

atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/evolutio.html

You might want to re-think using that site as a reference for anything. Here is a sampling of what they teach on other matters:

The Cross

The cross was used by Pagans long before the Messiah was put to death on Calvary.
**The cross is a symbol of the Babylonian Sun god **and was also seen on the coins of **Julius Caesar **100-40 BC. The cross was the emblem of Tammuz known as the mistletoe or Branch.
It is doubtful if Christ even died on the kind of cross commonly known. It is more likely that he was crucified on a stake - an upright pole or tree with its branches lopped off. But we will not argue about the type of cross on which the Messiah died; the point is, **we Christians should not venerate the cross - any cross. **Nor should we have crosses in our church buildings, or wear crosses around our necks or make signs of the cross on people’s foreheads.

Idolatry
The dictionary defines the word ‘idol’ as the image of a god: and ‘idolatry’ as the worship of idols. In the second of the Ten Commandments this matter of making and worshipping images is forbidden in these words:… This commandment is being blatantly broken today. Millions of church-goers bow down to idols every week. They kiss images and statues of the virgin Mary and various other saints, and honour relics and man-made objects of worship in churches around the world.

Pagan Festivals in Disguise
Another iniquitous practice the Almighty is going to weed out of Christian worship is the celebration of man-made religious festivals: Christmas, Ash Wednesday, Easter, The Feast of the Nativity of St John, Whitsun, Hallowe’en, Lady Day, The Feast of the Assumption etc. All these religious festivals have absolutely no scriptural authority whatsoever. They are all pagan festivals in disguise! A visit to your local reference library will confirm this astonishing claim.

Considering how wrong this allegedly religious site is on matters of faith, why would we accept ANYTHING they have to say about science?

Peace

Tim

 

[abcdefg]

I don’t care whether that site is Protestant or Catholic or pagan, but the quotations are from scientists, don’t you agree?

Considering how wrong this allegedly religious site is on matters of faith, why would we accept ANYTHING they have to say about science?

Why do you agree with Darwin the atheist/agnostic on matters of truth?

 

[Orogeny]

abcdefg:

I don’t care whether that site is Protestant or Catholic or pagan, but the quotations are from scientists, don’t you agree?

Well, the very first quote didn’t even deal with evolution. Go figure. It is an interesting site to be taking one line quotes from. Shall we get into a quote war? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, I can find more quotes from scientists supporting evolution than you can opposing evolution?

Why do you agree with Darwin the atheist/agnostic on matters of truth?

Truth is truth no matter who finds it. Evolution is true.

Peace

Tim

 

[abcdefg]

Orogeny:

Shall we get into a quote war?

you may choose

Orogeny:

Truth is truth no matter who finds it. Evolution is true.

Peace

Tim

I’ll post the following conversation between you and me now
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí(my family name in vietnamese):Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.

 

[gilliam]

Orogeny:

Truth is truth no matter who finds it. Evolution is true.

Peace

Tim

Tim, evolution is not a proven fact. It is a theory. There may be a lot of evidence for it, but we will probably never know for sure if it is true or not until we are with God.

 

[Orogeny]

gilliam:

Tim, evolution is not a proven fact. It is a theory. There may be a lot of evidence for it, but we will probably never know for sure if it is true or not until we are with God.

It is, after all, a SCIENTIFIC theory. Basicall, exactly what you just described - lots of evidence for it, not proven. Just like every scientific theory.

Peace

Tim

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

Tim, evolution is not a proven fact. It is a theory. There may be a lot of evidence for it, but we will probably never know for sure if it is true or not until we are with God.

Yes - but the problem with that position is that there are very few ‘proven facts’ - indeed, to be a very amateur philosopher for a second, I can’t prove anything other than my own existence at this second in time, and only that to myself At a less dramatic level, it is impossible to prove something in the past happened, although the evidence is often overwhelming and so we accept it.

Evolution is as good a piece of science as pretty much any other scientific theory. It isn’t incompatible with the Catholic idea of God, so I see no problem with it at all.

Mike

 

[Orogeny]

abcdefg:

you may choose

Then I choose no quote war. Posting quotes like that is useless and pointless.

I’ll post the following conversation between you and me now
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí(my family name in vietnamese):Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.
Tim: Evolution is true.
Thaí:Creationism/ID is true.

You are right. No matter how much evidence you are given, you will continue to repeat your mantra. You don’t have to accept evolution. Your acceptance of a literal 6 day creation and a young earth is fine by me and by the Church. Just admit it is based on faith alone and has nothing to do with science. If you chose to ignore the science, that is your choice.

Peace

Tim

 

[MikeWM]

Orogeny:

It is, after all, a SCIENTIFIC theory. Basicall, exactly what you just described - lots of evidence for it, not proven. Just like every scientific theory.

Indeed. As I said earlier in the thread, if you require the science teacher to put a disclaimer about ‘it’s only a theory’ before the evolution class, you’re asking the teacher to say that at the start of every class. Not very satisfactory. A class on philosophy of science would be far more productive.

Mike

 

[gilliam]

MikeWM:

Yes - but the problem with that position is that there are very few ‘proven facts’ - indeed, to be a very amateur philosopher for a second, I can’t prove anything other than my own existence at this second in time, and only that to myself At a less dramatic level, it is impossible to prove something in the past happened, although the evidence is often overwhelming and so we accept it.

Evolution is as good a piece of science as pretty much any other scientific theory. It isn’t incompatible with the Catholic idea of God, so I see no problem with it at all.

Mike

I’m not saying it is incompatible with the Catholic idea of God as long as you don’t put your faith in evolution so much as to make an idol of it. Again, you can’t prove evolution, and you can’t know for sure it is truth. Some day we may wake up to find it was disproven with some new piece of evidence. Who knows? Right now if you believe evolution to be true, you have to take it on faith. But we Catholics already have our faith and our dogma, and evolution is not a required belief. That God made the heavens and the Earth is. We can believe in evolution or not. But to say it is “pure” science to believe that evolution is “truth”, is, well, false.

 

[Orogeny]

gilliam:

I’m not saying it is incompatible with the Catholic idea of God as long as you don’t put your faith in evolution so much as to make an idol of it. Again, you can’t prove evolution, and you can’t know for sure it is truth. Some day we may wake up to find it was disproven with some new piece of evidence. Who knows? Right now you have to take it on faith that evolution is true. But we Catholics already have our faith and our dogma, and evolution is not required belief. We can believe in evolution or not. But to say it is “pure” science to believe that evolution is “truth”, is, well, false.

Well, you say we have to take it on faith. That is the same faith we use to accept nuclear theory, the theory of gravity, germ theory, etc… If the science is done properly, why wouldn’t we accept it?

Peace

Tim

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

I’m not saying it is incompatible with the Catholic idea of God as long as you don’t put your faith in evolution so much as to make an idol of it. Again, you can’t prove evolution, and you can’t know for sure it is truth. Some day we may wake up to find it was disproven with some new piece of evidence. Who knows? Right now you have to take it on faith that evolution is true. But we Catholics already have our faith and our dogma, and evolution is not required belief. We can believe in evolution or not. But to say it is “pure” science to believe that evolution is “truth”, is, well, false.

Yes, all true. We are not required to either believe or not believe in evolution as a matter of faith. However, if we are saying what should be taught in science class, then evolution should be, and shouldn’t have some ‘special disclaimer’. The people calling for a special disclaimer just for evolution need to get a better understanding of what science is and isn’t (hence my continued calls for some teaching of philosophy of science, as it is evidently badly understood).

My personal belief is that evolution is basically correct, but with God pushing things in the right direction as we go along. But that is my belief, and it shouldn’t be taught in science class, as there is no scientific way of showing (or not showing) that such ‘pushing’ has occurred. Is that a problem with science? No. Is that a problem with people not understanding what science is and isn’t? It seems so.

Mike

 

[gilliam]

My belief is ID does not belong in the science classes of a public school. My point was to beware of making evolution some kind of golden calf. It is only a theory and has not been proven to be an eternal Truth.

 

[abcdefg]

Orogeny:

You are right. No matter how much evidence you are given, you will continue to repeat your mantra. You don’t have to accept evolution. Your acceptance of a literal 6 day creation and a young earth is fine by me and by the Church. Just admit it is based on faith alone and has nothing to do with science. If you chose to ignore the science, that is your choice.

Peace

Tim

you’re very offending. considering these are said to you:

You are right. No matter how much evidence you are given, you will continue to repeat your mantra.
Just admit it is based on faith alone and has nothing to do with truth.
If you chose to ignore the God’s words, that is your choice.