I'd like Catholicism more if it weren't for the Catholics

[Icarus210]

In all history, catholics have gone to Mass for the Sacraments. Confession and Communion. That is our principal reason of being there. On our Judgement day we are not judged as a Catholic, we are judged as an individual who luckily has availed him/herself of the sacraments given to Peter, and handed down faithfully until the last day. The congregation is in fact meaningless to each other, Its a place where through the priest, you can worship God and eat His Body through the Host. That is why the traditional Mass was exactly the same in any church, you did not have to go to the same one, one could in fact go to a different church every day to receive the Sacraments, not knowing or worrying who was sitting next to you. In other words… ITS A PERSONAL Relationship.

God Bless

 

[JBassist17]

The Mass isn’t there for my entertainment.

Exactly! I can’t stand how many people say they don’t go to Mass anymore because they don’t get anything out of it. How selfish! As long as you’re going to Mass and thinking it’s about you, of course you’ll get nothing out of it, you should go to Mass for Him! SOOOO frustrating, sorry, had to get that off my chest, haha.

 

[Lujack]

In all history, catholics have gone to Mass for the Sacraments. Confession and Communion. That is our principal reason of being there. On our Judgement day we are not judged as a Catholic, we are judged as an individual who luckily has availed him/herself of the sacraments given to Peter, and handed down faithfully until the last day. The congregation is in fact meaningless to each other, Its a place where through the priest, you can worship God and eat His Body through the Host. That is why the traditional Mass was exactly the same in any church, you did not have to go to the same one, one could in fact go to a different church every day to receive the Sacraments, not knowing or worrying who was sitting next to you. In other words… ITS A PERSONAL Relationship.

God Bless

Come on! Parish communities were much, much stronger in the past than they are nowadays. In fact, parish boundaries were much stricter than they are nowadays. That kind of church-hopping never happened. My parents grew up in a city during the 1950’s and 1960’s, and every neighborhood was identified by church.

Don’t try and pretend community was never important.

 

[Icarus210]

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Oh sorry, the community happened AFTER the Mass… I was specifically talking about the time DURING the Mass. And yes there is and always has been community love in the parish.

 

[Lujack]

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Oh sorry, the community happened AFTER the Mass… I was specifically talking about the time DURING the Mass. And yes there is and always has been community love in the parish.

Oh, okay. We were talking right past each other.

 

[lhk0pd]

All i can say as a ex protestant is i’ll take the soleminty of the Mass any day over some of the Protestant services i remember. When i leave mass i do not as when i was not Catholic leave with a feeling of whats missing.True Catholics have a reputation of not being big on singing as like at our Church the cantors are really good and i enjoy there voices or the choir rather than my own. I see plenty of smiling and the sign of peace is a happy afair.The only thing i see that i dissaprove of is that most at Mass hold hands during the our Father and i feel like i’m being looked at as a grump or something when i turn down the hand holding and most people when leaving Mass are smiling and greeting others and as for the seating well our Church seats 2,000 and i like most regulars have found where we set as the most comfortable and nothing to do with any personal reasons. I guess the author might see the world in dark colored glasses or is being to critical…

 

[ljvt]

Hi OP,

I’ve brought up this topic before and been hit with the following responses: that I’m not a good enough Catholic, that Protestants look like they are praising the Lord but on the inside they’re really sinning and that church is not a social group.

It was rather frustrating because almost everyone seemed to miss the point.

In many Catholic parishes that i have attended, they’re not very welcoming. I’d love to see people within Catholic churches be more pro-active in creating and supporting a church community. To know people in your parish must be an amazing thing, to have people in your town who you know understand your views.

Perhaps it will happen one day, I’m going to try.

And also, I like you, crave to see a bit more passion in the church (and that’s not happy clappy activities) but I feel such passion inside my heart for God and for me singing is a great way to express it.

Church is personal, refined, and reflective but that doesn’t mean it has to be cold and impersonal too

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I am 68 years old, and so I remember when Catholics went into a church before Mass and either sat silently or prayed. If a person said something to another person, he or she spoke with a low volume. That was because evryone was conscious of being in the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament on the altar but also in respect for the people praying.

Now most people come in and act just as if they are getting ready for a meeting at the local political or social club. People older than I am chat loudly about the weather and everything else.

I don’t believe that I have noticed too many mopey faces. The people I see are enjoying themselves in some sense.

I hope to see a turn around before I die. Bill

I have heard this from more than one person. And I do think such behavior is inappropriate in church.

In my parish the pews are usually pretty full, and I attend Mass at different times. Nor do I see ‘mopey’ faces. And I suspect that if there are, that’s how they appear at all times, not just in church.

 

[MusicaDonumDei]

Wow do people really applaud at the end of mass? I’ve never seen or even heard of people doing that

Well, the question is, what would YOU do if Jesus suddenly showed up? Which he does at Mass, only cunningly disguised as bread and wine

Speaking of the Mass being entertainment, though… Who else has been annoyed with the applause at the end of Mass, as though it was some sort of concert? of course I’m talking about your standard Sunday Mass, not weekday or EF Masses.

 

[TheGreatDane]

I’d like protestants more if it weren’t for all the heresies–but then again I’m no fan of the cult of man. That’s a difficult one for the protestants to ‘get over.’

I can’t tell you how many Catholics I’ve attended mass with, followed by a dinner conversation concerning how many people they F***ed in the week previous.

I was shocked. To this day the aforementioned conversations haunt me.

Their rationale consisted of “it doesn’t matter, as long as you confess and the priest forgives you”

 

[justinkolo]

Wow do people really applaud at the end of mass? I’ve never seen or even heard of people doing that

Seriously, on this end of the country, they do. They did at my last home parish in Colorado, and they do at my new “geographical” parish. I guess it’s “good job choir”?

Fortunately there are other options…

 

[nablaise]

I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:

:extrahappy:
:clapping:
:grouphug:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:



What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it? I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith. If someone told me that the Lord is Joy and then I took them to one of the Catholic masses in my area, and they saw these mopey sorry faces, they’d have every right to think I was crazy.

Look, I’m not trying to turn Mass into a discotheque. It’s solemn. It’s holy. I get it. But is it really that hard for people to smile at eachother? Is it so hard for people to at least ACT like they want to be at Mass?

I know, I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but what’s a person to do to sort of, I don’t know, INVIGORATE the masses? (get it, masses, masses. Ha! Hmmm…probably using puns won’t invigorate anyone…)

But it is not the same with catholics everywhere in the world. Not even here. I once saw a congolese catholic Mass in Montreal on Salt + Light tv, and it was great. All those things you mentioned about protestants, they have them and even more. Perhaps you can try to do something about it.

I remember one lady asked about introducing liturgical dances. Cardinal Arinze told her that dances are not allowed in the regular western latin Mass because they would not be fit with the worship spirit. However he pointed out that in some parts of the world, they are allowed because of the style of the dance. Dances which express grace and worship depending on people’s cultures are allowed. But unfortunately here we don’t have them. Not yet. May be we can invent them why not.

Check these one out ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OzkqY-jal5g

an other one: ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WjcJB_LnDog

ca.youtube.com/watch?v=heQSqpTf_cU

For the last one, I think even here we can do something similar. This is not culture specific really. But we just don’t seem to have the passion!

God bless

 

[Lujack]

Seriously, on this end of the country, they do. They did at my last home parish in Colorado, and they do at my new “geographical” parish. I guess it’s “good job choir”?

Fortunately there are other options…

I only heard applause at Mass once, at a time when it technically broke the rules, I suppose, but nobody really cared. The beloved pastor of my parish, to which my high school was attached, was retiring, and was saying his final Mass at my graduation. He received two standing ovations, one at the end of his final homily and the other at the end of the Mass, right before the start of the graduation ceremony. Technically, I suppose we were in the wrong, but the Monsignor had been there for twenty-five years and we were going to give him that ovation, by hook or by crook.

Other than that, though, I’ve never seen applause at Mass.

 

[MusicaDonumDei]

Wow, interesting. Well, to me, clapping during church (except for maybe at a priests ordination) misunderstands the purpose of the music; the music isn’t directed for the congregation to appreciate anyway, it’s directed to God.

I think that’s one of the mindsets I didn’t care for about my Protestant upbringing, but also one that may cause a Protestant to consider a Catholic service “boring” on the surface…

Seriously, on this end of the country, they do. They did at my last home parish in Colorado, and they do at my new “geographical” parish. I guess it’s “good job choir”?

Fortunately there are other options…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

yellowbicycle, I know what you’re speaking of … that something that’s often “missing” in a Catholic parish.

I’m a former protestant, a Methodist. I certainly didn’t have a “happy clappy” service, in fact it was more diginified and formal than the majority of OF masses I’ve attended (with much better music).

But there is often a sense of community at protestant churches that I have found consistently lacking in Catholic parishes (and we’re military and have moved a lot since our conversion).

Here’s my most recent example:

My mother (who is still protestant) just moved from another state. She attended her Church for the first time last week.

Since then, she’s gotten a visit from the pastor, has been given a pictorial Church directory (to “help you know who we are”) and has had one visit by a Church elder and a “welcome” dinner dropped off at her home.

I can’t even begin to count the number of parishes we’ve joined over the years, and our joining has merited nothing more than a blurb in the Church bulletin. No visit (or even call) by the priest, no welcoming committe, nothing to ease our transition into the new parish.

Does the protestant atmosphere of hospitality and goodwill create a different, more positive and welcoming environment? You bet it does! And people take it seriously to practice hospitality and goodwill.

I’ve yet, even though I’ve expended much effort, been able to get a successful woman’s committee together in order to provide meals to new mothers or the sick. Catholic women (at least the many that I’ve met) seem to have absolutely no interest in providing ministries of the types that protestant women do so well.

I agree that our Catholic faith is so beautiful, and I want to make more fall in love with it … but there often appears to be something seriously lacking in Catholic parishes.

It’s hard to pin down, but I know what you’re talking about.

I wasn’t even a ‘new parishioner,’ I swam the Tiber, and apart from the Easter Vigil, no one seemed to take much notice.

All those things—the welcome dinners, the call from the priest, would have been so much appreciated, and still would be.

Maybe we need to adapt at least a little bit of that ‘welcome’ stuff. I don’t see anything un-Catholic in it at all.

 

[samcarter14]

As far as wanting big huggy welcomes when we join a new parish…why are we going to Mass in the first place? To be recognized by other people, or to worship Christ and celebrate His sacrifice and resurrection each week?

I would prefer to think it the latter. At our small Byzantine parish, we have a coffee hour after Liturgy; most Eastern Churches do. However, even if nobody said hello to us or bothered to invite us down to the basement afterwards, we would still attend, because we are there for Christ, not to fulfill some social need.

Yes, the idea of a warm, huggy church environment is a nice one. However, that should not be our primary reason for attending Mass, nor should the lack of friends and friendly acquaintances at a church cause us to stop attending Mass. We are not there for ourselves.

As I’ve explained it to my kids, “You have lots of hours in the week where you do NOT go to church. All you are asked to do is give up ONE hour of your time each week to worship God. Is that really so much to ask?” My oldest got it. Why can’t we, as adults, stop complaining and focus on the sacrifice that is reenacted each week at the altar? Why do we allow ourselves to be distracted by our perceived failings of others at the church?

I always try to remember that when I criticize somebody, more often I am seeing something of myself in them that I do not like.

 

[Annc]

But it is not the same with catholics everywhere in the world. Not even here. I once saw a congolese catholic Mass in Montreal on Salt + Light tv, and it was great. All those things you mentioned about protestants, they have them and even more. Perhaps you can try to do something about it.

I remember one lady asked about introducing liturgical dances. Cardinal Arinze told her that dances are not allowed in the regular western latin Mass because they would not be fit with the worship spirit. However he pointed out that in some parts of the world, they are allowed because of the style of the dance. Dances which express grace and worship depending on people’s cultures are allowed. But unfortunately here we don’t have them. Not yet. May be we can invent them why not.

Check these one out ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OzkqY-jal5g

an other one: ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WjcJB_LnDog

ca.youtube.com/watch?v=heQSqpTf_cU

For the last one, I think even here we can do something similar. This is not culture specific really. But we just don’t seem to have the passion!

God bless

The first 2 videos were lovely perfomances but I couldn’t tell if they were part of a worship service or not. Was this a Mass? I fast forwarded through them so forgive me if I missed something. If they were not part of the Mass then I don’t understand the relevance of the videos. Please explain.

As for the last video, there is a crucifix in the background so I assume that they were in a church. Was this during a Mass? I don’t understand how this is not culture specific. The performance was lovely but to the western Catholic mind it is a performance. For the African it may be a form of worship in their culture but not in the West (in general, African American dominant parishes may be different). Since it is part of their culture and the Church o.k.s it as part of their liturgy, then great. No problem. Again, was this during a Mass? It would certainly be interesting to see that whole liturgy if it was and I mean that in a nice way.

Thanks for sharing. The issue of culture specific worship is one I am not familiar with but will try to keep my eyes and heart open.

 

[Annc]

yellowbicycle, I know what you’re speaking of … that something that’s often “missing” in a Catholic parish.

I’m a former protestant, a Methodist. I certainly didn’t have a “happy clappy” service, in fact it was more diginified and formal than the majority of OF masses I’ve attended (with much better music).

But there is often a sense of community at protestant churches that I have found consistently lacking in Catholic parishes (and we’re military and have moved a lot since our conversion).

Here’s my most recent example:

My mother (who is still protestant) just moved from another state. She attended her Church for the first time last week.

Since then, she’s gotten a visit from the pastor, has been given a pictorial Church directory (to “help you know who we are”) and has had one visit by a Church elder and a “welcome” dinner dropped off at her home.

I can’t even begin to count the number of parishes we’ve joined over the years, and our joining has merited nothing more than a blurb in the Church bulletin. No visit (or even call) by the priest, no welcoming committe, nothing to ease our transition into the new parish.

Does the protestant atmosphere of hospitality and goodwill create a different, more positive and welcoming environment? You bet it does! And people take it seriously to practice hospitality and goodwill.

I’ve yet, even though I’ve expended much effort, been able to get a successful woman’s committee together in order to provide meals to new mothers or the sick. Catholic women (at least the many that I’ve met) seem to have absolutely no interest in providing ministries of the types that protestant women do so well.

I agree that our Catholic faith is so beautiful, and I want to make more fall in love with it … but there often appears to be something seriously lacking in Catholic parishes.

It’s hard to pin down, but I know what you’re talking about.

 

[DL82]

To the original poster - you’ve obviously never been to a Catholic Charismatic Mass!

I know some people try to paint a division between charismatic and Traditional Catholics, but in my experience the charismatic Catholics I have met are some of the most faithful and hungry for the whole richness of the teaching of the Church. Like other Traditionalists, the Charismatic Renewal seeks to return the whole Church to the fullness of joy in obedience to her shepherds and to God, what else can renewal mean? They know when it’s time for reverential silence at the consecration and communion, but also understand what it means to be moved by the Spirit to celebrate their faith. There’s a time for both.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

As far as wanting big huggy welcomes when we join a new parish…why are we going to Mass in the first place? To be recognized by other people, or to worship Christ and celebrate His sacrifice and resurrection each week?

I would prefer to think it the latter. At our small Byzantine parish, we have a coffee hour after Liturgy; most Eastern Churches do. However, even if nobody said hello to us or bothered to invite us down to the basement afterwards, we would still attend, because we are there for Christ, not to fulfill some social need.

Yes, the idea of a warm, huggy church environment is a nice one. However, that should not be our primary reason for attending Mass, nor should the lack of friends and friendly acquaintances at a church cause us to stop attending Mass. We are not there for ourselves.

As I’ve explained it to my kids, “You have lots of hours in the week where you do NOT go to church. All you are asked to do is give up ONE hour of your time each week to worship God. Is that really so much to ask?” My oldest got it. Why can’t we, as adults, stop complaining and focus on the sacrifice that is reenacted each week at the altar? Why do we allow ourselves to be distracted by our perceived failings of others at the church?

I always try to remember that when I criticize somebody, more often I am seeing something of myself in them that I do not like.

Yeah, but after Mass, outside of worship, why not be more welcoming, especially to newcomers?