"Ideal" man and woman

[pete_29]

I am a geek (computer software engineer.). Does that count?

 

[whatevergirl]

When I envision a ‘bad boy type’ I think of a James Dean…rebellious type guy…good looks…(he knows it)…a little arrogant…tough guy…chip on ye olde shoulder…this is what comes to mind…not a fugitive of the law or wife beater. Yikes!

The irony of this thread though, is that when the whole Scott Peterson scandal was going on, it was reported that next to Ted Bundy (double yikes) …he had the most ‘fan mail,’ and ‘love letters’ from WOMEN. Honestly, that is very sad. So–apparently there are women out there who find someone like him appealing–I have heard him referred to as a bad boy, as well.

But, when I personally think of that phrase, I think of James Dean–NOT SCOTT PETERSON!!

 

[JimG]

yikes jim–that’s not the norm for most women. Yes, there are women who like men who are even jailed murderers…that’s not the norm of what most women are looking for by a long shot.

To be fair, at the time she showed us the newspaper mugshot of the guy, they were already broken up. We looked at him, and then at her, and everybody said, “what were you thinking?” But it was not an unusual choice for her at all. Once there was a guy who took a serious interest in her–had a good job, good looks, even a few bad boy characteristics, but not enough apparently. Besides, he was in law enforcement. That lasted less than a month.

But the thing is, if women can tell the difference between bad boy and abusive, they ought to avoid the abusive ones before becoming involved. Of course, it’s not always apparent, but sometimes they are forewarned by all their friends that a guy is bad news; yet go forward anyway.

 

[deb1]

Because I grew up in an abusive, unstable home, I never wanted a bad boy. I saw what being selfish could do to a person.

To tell you the truth, I am a female(In case you thought deb was a masculine name ) and I have never understood women who were attracted to bad boys.

I always liked the nice guy who opened doors for me and was kind to others.

That doesn’t mean that I wanted a guy who won’t stand up for himself, though. A man can be masculine, strong and compassionate.

I know, I married such a man.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m so glad you married a good guy, deb! I did as well. I actually dated a mix of bad boys and ‘good’ boys…and actually dated an abusive guy before meeting my husband–and I think I stayed as long as I did in that relationship–because I grew up with someone who verbally abused me (my ex BIL, who now I get along great with go figure) and I also thought I could ‘help’ him. The reality is…abusers need to want to help themselves. Now if a woman marries an abuser, the reasons can range as to why ‘she stays.’ I think had I not dated an abuser myself in the past, I wouldn’t have known why women stay with abusers either. It’s complex, I guess.

Abusive men have a myriad of issues, and again–I don’t classify them into the ‘bad boy’ genre.

 

[chevalier]

I would generally agree with your first sentence as well as most else you write here.

However, as I write this, I am thinking of a notable exception. I have a “bad boy” younger brother (currently dying of cancer). He would never lay a hand on person, mock them or call them bad or nasty names. He just likes a “tough guy” and macho image. He is a risk-taker, but he is a real teddy bear.

I can see why those qualities would be endearing to a girl, though I would be hesitate to call it a proper bad guy case. Certainly what I meant here was the kind of guy who would mock people, call them names or resort to violence and the image would be more antisocial than tough. I’m sorry to hear about your brother. Prayers for both of you.

And on delicacy and fencing, I agree that it requires finess, but once again I would like to point out that grace would be preferable to delicacy. Well, my conception of delicacy, which is frail, weak, and breakable. Particularily if your opponent want to show off their hard hitting lunge.uch:

Well… I’d link delicacy to some sort of vulnerability, but not to such a great extent. I was thinking, however, of delicacy as in the trait which enables one to deal with delicate situations rather than the trait which puts one in them.

I think the females that seek out the “bad boy” characters are in fact seeing something deeper than the foul exterior. Perhaps they see bits of their father, or brother, or perhaps they see into the fiend’s soul, and see the bleeding heart of a poet!

Oh, I don’t deny them their bits of fun or soul-searching and, admittedly, pals with machoistic traits can be great fun at times. However, I’m certainly worried by attraction to actions one can’t really approve of on ethical grounds.

 

[chevalier]

When I envision a ‘bad boy type’ I think of a James Dean…rebellious type guy…good looks…(he knows it)…a little arrogant…tough guy…chip on ye olde shoulder…this is what comes to mind…not a fugitive of the law or wife beater. Yikes!

This is a Catholic forum, so even bad boys should qualify as near to saints, right? Well, certainly, I suppose the original meaning of the bad boy stereotype was just the rebel without clue, some combination of antisocial qualities with redeeming noble characteristics. Say, an arrogant young lawyer who posts at nights in an online Catholic forum, no? Then again, I think of different things when I hear “bad guy” than when I hear “bad boy”. “Bad guy” is to me a bit as in good guys and bad guys, who’s on which side. Bad guys would be bandits, horse thieves, commies…

Because I grew up in an abusive, unstable home, I never wanted a bad boy. I saw what being selfish could do to a person.

I’ve seen examples of never wanting any and still ending up with one - or one who somewhat fit in there at the time being. Some of my relatives have never had any luck with men. It’s so sad to see good, kind and smart Catholic women ending up fooled by life, with some part of a guy to it.

Happens to me all the time, even though I’d think my nick is masculine enough, but nope. Maybe it’s the French.

and I have never understood women who were attracted to bad boys.

Men, when they’re attracted to “bad women”, probably go for more acceptance for their instinct ways rather than being forcibly civilised and moulded into pro-social, pro-family etc patterns. Additionally, they might think the bad woman will actually be able to be done something with (errr…), rather than being stiff and inaccessible. I suppose the stereotype held some truth in the Victorian era. I suppose perhaps women might see “pillar of community” men as a restraining force as well, so the “bad guy” would be someone more prepared to accept their true nature, at least so far as they had a roguish streak and a bit of a feeling of inadequacy and being alienated in the system. Sometimes probably just a longing for adventure. After all, make a Hollywood film about a millionaire’s daughter who dons a mask at night and goes mugging people in dark alleys and you can be sure the cinema will be stuffed with men - it works the same for both genders.

 

[Just_wondering]

I think my BF is a good combination of bad boy and good guy. He rides a motorbike and is into cars, he has long hair (in a country where men just don’t have long hair), he has a couple of piercings, and he’s not afraid to tell people what he thinks. I like that about him.

At the same time, he’s generous, kind, and sweet. He sends half his salary home to his grandmother (who has cancer) and his sister (who just left an abusive marriage). His younger brother got in trouble with the law, and he bailed him out of jail and then gave him a serious talking-to about responsibility and growing up. Last week a couple of his friends got into a fight, and he got several bruises breaking it up, and then talked both parties into apologizing and forgiving each other. What really impressed me was that even when they were hitting him (trying to get at the other) he never did anything but hold them apart. He could have swung a punch in self-defense, but wouldn’t do it. I asked him about the fight later, and he told me that when he joined the police academy, they made him swear that he would never harm another person except when it’s life or death. Even though he never finished his training, the oath is still valid.

He’s a risk taker in that he left his home country to try to find success. He plans on running his own business, despite the risks. Sure, he takes a couple of risks that I wish he wouldn’t, like smoking, but overall I respect and admire his combination of risk taker, rebel, and family man.

 

[Norseman82]

I’ve always told my daughters to marry a nerd. The money’s usually better.

How close are you to Chicago and do you have any single daughters of marriage age???

(IT guy here)

edit: I did read your profile and see you are a correctionals officer, and I was just reminded of that commercial of the girl who brings her bf to Christmas dinner to meet the family for the first time; her father is a retired LEO, and as he is greeting the bf he is patting him down, etc.

 

[pete_29]

How close are you to Chicago and do you have any single daughters of marriage age???

(IT guy here)

edit: I did read your profile and see you are a correctionals officer, and I was just reminded of that commercial of the girl who brings her bf to Christmas dinner to meet the family for the first time; her father is a retired LEO, and as he is greeting the bf he is patting him down, etc.

350 miles. You have to wait 4 years til she finishes college. and don’t mind me, I always clean my guns.

 

[chevalier]

Hey, I can code too!

 

[peregrinator_it]

Re: the “bad boys” discussion:

A friend of mine once explained the relationship between the husband and wife as being like the members of an expedition; the man as leader and the woman as second-in-command; both in it together on the same adventure. I love to hike, camp etc, so this really worked for me.

I think maybe the attraction to “rougher-seeming” (I don’t know the right word) guys, is because if you’re looking for someone to lead and protect you in a serious situation, (and finding your salvation, I think, can be as difficult and dangerous as climbing Mt. Everest) you want someone who won’t be so concerned about following the letter of the law (instead of the spirit) or conforming to others’ expectations or being nice, that he’s unable to see a situation objectively or unable to make the correct choice in a tough situation.

Of course, a man who’s immoral, abusive, selfish, or incapable of being gentle wouldn’t be able to judge correctly in tough situations, and no sane person would want him as leader of the expedition, either.

You want the leader of your expedition to be able to take risks and fight when necessary.

And now since I’m in a very self-indulgent, frivolous, un-Lenten mood…

For women, the ideal man should be: well-kept, well-groomed, pretty [sic], proportionally built, with a hairy chest, fashionably dressed, tanned, musculated.

This is proof that I’m not the slightest bit Polish.

Because what I like is eyes… and hands - hands that have been used for something …and Old Testament names…

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

I agree with what they said here:

A guy or woman could be great in many ways–but if they lack a love for God…I think that the rest of the criteria wouldn’t matter to me.

and

deb1:

I always liked the nice guy who opened doors for me and was kind to others.

We should look beyond the physical attributes of a person, which fades in time. To me, what really matters is love for God because everything important like good character, goodness of heart, faithfulness, honesty, a caring attitude, etc. follows after that.

Many years ago, while taking some subjects for my previous course, I was introduced by a friend to a handsome guy who drove a really nice car. He offered to bring me home. Me, thinking that it was safe to go with him as he was a friend of a friend and happy to get a free ride, agreed.

He parked the car behind a empty spot behind a building in school and suddenly pounced on me, pushing his hands inside my blouse and started kissing me. I kept pounding at him and was able to get out of the car and ran as fast I could to safety.

A few years later, I dated a guy (brother of my bestfriend) who wasn’t as obviously handsome as the other guy, didn’t have a car and preferred the company of his books.

One time, I got lost trying to find the building where the class of my best-friend’s brother (he invited me to watch a report presentation). I saw a writer, whose column I read in a newspaper, lounging on the steps of one of the buildings next door. I asked for directions and was told that the building I was looking for the one right beside us. About an hour later, I saw the writer inside the building unabashly watching me and the guy conversing. I knew he was looking at us, because the buiilding was practically empty at that time, except for the guard. I thought it was odd.

A week later (Note: this happened years ago), I read his article and it was about him seeing a girl while passing time lounging in a school building whom he followed and was shocked to see the woman with a short (he was half-inch shorter because I was wearing heels–but he’s average height) and not so attractive guy. He made a dissertation on how odd how the woman can be attracted to a guy like that and asked the question what drives one to be attracted to a person.

Now, I assumed that he was talking about us because many of the things he said reflected what had happened then…but I could be wrong.

Nonetheless, between the first guy I mentioned (the handsome guy with the nice car but awful character) and the second guy (nice guy, gentleman, intelligent)—I prefer the second guy, by a long shot.

I don’t mind making “safe” choices, men who open doors for me and who treat me like a lady.

Physical attributes are superficial and fades in time. What is inside the heart of the person is far more important to me than having a pseudo Prince Charming who can turn Jekyll and Mr. Hyde given the chance.

 

[chevalier]

I think maybe the attraction to “rougher-seeming” (I don’t know the right word) guys, is because if you’re looking for someone to lead and protect you in a serious situation, (and finding your salvation, I think, can be as difficult and dangerous as climbing Mt. Everest) you want someone who won’t be so concerned about following the letter of the law (instead of the spirit) or conforming to others’ expectations or being nice, that he’s unable to see a situation objectively or unable to make the correct choice in a tough situation.

Of course, a man who’s immoral, abusive, selfish, or incapable of being gentle wouldn’t be able to judge correctly in tough situations, and no sane person would want him as leader of the expedition, either.

You’re so right… Yes, there is such an analogy and I would say you’ve pretty much captured how it works. However, I still have some reservations, maybe because I’m such a never-be-happy wet blanket. See…

You want the leader of your expedition to be able to take risks and fight when necessary.

I know it was a generic “you”, but I can’t resist… So, I always end up elected to some position or informally put forth as the leader - often mainstream, sometimes opposition. I sometimes make objective judgements to the point where people think I’m cruel and care for no one. Fighting… If I have to, I deal with it. Normally I solve it verbally - preferably peaceful and kind informal talk, sometimes “verbal violence” does the trick. My way of dealing with pressing situations is that I don’t waste energy on being affected, hectic, running around and panicking. “Yes, I know the deadline has passed, but showing how I’m affected won’t help me concentrate and deal with it.” Even if I do spend hours in shops picking gifts, let alone computer parts… As for the letter and the spirit of the law, I might be a bit on the letter edge (i.e. don’t make a season’s show of the law), but I always keep a wholesome grasp on what the rule is about. In addition the above, however, I’m a bit given to scrupples and worry too much, plus I care a lot for people, get attached strongly and go out of my way for them. People have no doubts I’m on the “good” side, not the “bad” one. Still, some generally prefer to consider me scary, but associate with those who fall in the loose “bad” category - and then get hurt. So perhaps the antisocial, “look at me, I’m bad,” attitude does gain following?

And now since I’m in a very self-indulgent, frivolous, un-Lenten mood…

Hehe.

Because what I like is eyes… and hands - hands that have been used for something …and Old Testament names…

You were born Protestant, weren’t you?

And what a prejudiced misconception! If I type so hard day after day preparing legal writings (job) or coding websites and other things (hobby), that my fingers scream in pain, are my hands really not used for anything just because they aren’t rough or bruised?

 

[deb1]

And what a prejudiced misconception! If I type so hard day after day preparing legal writings (job) or coding websites and other things (hobby), that my fingers scream in pain, are my hands really not used for anything just because they aren’t rough or bruised?

See this is an example of a man not thinking at all like a woman. I am sure that you don’t have soft, fminine hands. My hubby has to work in an office, even though he is a military guy. His hands aren’t calloused but I still like his hands. (Actually, I like all of my husband)

 

[peregrinator_it]

However, I still have some reservations, maybe because I’m such a never-be-happy wet blanket. See…

Snip

…People have no doubts I’m on the “good” side, not the “bad” one. Still, some generally prefer to consider me scary, but associate with those who fall in the loose “bad” category - and then get hurt. So perhaps the antisocial, “look at me, I’m bad,” attitude does gain following?

My friend’s explanation worked for me, because it’s a description of the roles of men and women and not just a list of ideal/appropriate qualities, if you know what I mean… Men are generally called to be leaders in marriage, but not everyone’s called to the same situation, and different leaders handle different missions better; I am sure God gives you the “adventure” and second-in-command that best fits your leadership style…

I too used to find it bothersome that women (myself included) find aggressiveness/risk-taking attractive in men. (After all, that’s the just the quality that I hated in my brothers growing up!) But, hearing my friend’s explanation helped make if fit…

I agree, it’s hard sometimes to make a distinction between a general willingness to take risks etc. and just plain bad behavior, and some women end up falling for the latter.

You were born Protestant, weren’t you?

Sounds that way, doesn’t it? On the contrary, I am a rather traditional (Latin & chant, please), non-cafeteria, cradle Catholic.

See this is an example of a man not thinking at all like a woman. I am sure that you don’t have soft, feminine hands.

What she said.

(I was actually thinking of musician’s hands… … or carpenter’s… but that’s quite enough self-indulgence for now!)

 

[chevalier]

I too used to find it bothersome that women (myself included) find aggressiveness/risk-taking attractive in men. (After all, that’s the just the quality that I hated in my brothers growing up!) But, hearing my friend’s explanation helped make if fit…

Depends… I still have issues with it. Even after that explanation. I will openly admit that I like it both man and woman alike if he or she is able to get out of the shell and face some exposure to action, you know, even blood and sand. I appreciate people who do what needs to be done even if that means risking their position. But I don’t appreciate risky behaviours comparable to investing all one’s money in unsure stock. They say, “who doesn’t risk doesn’t gain,” but I prefer to calculate probabilities.

Another thought is that I can get physical and even brutal if need be, but I utterly reject the thought of fighting for the enjoyment of those who don’t fight. If I take risks, it’s for the cause, not so that someone would have the thrill… or even get attracted to me. At one point in my life, I ended up trying to provoke a fight with two guys each bigger than I so that they would leave two girls I barely knew alone. Gaining respect or admiration was the last thing I’d think of and it wouldn’t have been worth it from that perspective. Attraction I would find demeaning in that context. It would simply mean someone didn’t understand.

This is another reason why I don’t like attraction to risk-taking if risk-taking translates as foolhardiness or a careless attitude.

I agree, it’s hard sometimes to make a distinction between a general willingness to take risks etc. and just plain bad behavior, and some women end up falling for the latter.

Starts from ruggedly handsome, ends everyone knows where…

Sounds that way, doesn’t it? On the contrary, I am a rather traditional (Latin & chant, please), non-cafeteria, cradle Catholic.

Old Testament names and hard work ethics were the clues. I just couldn’t resist, sorry.

 

[JimG]

I too used to find it bothersome that women (myself included) find aggressiveness/risk-taking attractive in men. (After all, that’s the just the quality that I hated in my brothers growing up!) But, hearing my friend’s explanation helped make if fit…

And your brothers are no doubt great husbands!

 

[peregrinator_it]

And your brothers are no doubt great husbands!

Uuuh… they’re a little young yet… so I guess the jury’s still out…

But they’ve become a lot less obnoxious!

 

[GraceDK]

yeah deb… I think you said a good word “masculine”.
I would be a liar if I denied that I feel attracted to the appearance of a man with masculine traits… that’s normal I think… but I’d never go out with a non-christian.
I have only ever been in a relationship with one man and he was dark eyed and dark haired, muscular and masculine in his whole way of being. But I think men should not worry so much about what women think: be a man and that is what a woman needs.

By the way. My ex had hair on his chest as well but I did not find that attractive at all… His eyes though… whoa… they could suck me right in and hold me for a few minutes… I only noticed those eyes once I was already in love with him… and that only came after I knew him…
But you know… some people say that male and female hormones releases smells that can’t be detected consciously and even such a stimulus can make people drawn towards each other.
In my country a survey was made some month ago that showed that women do prefer strong men… “someone that does not sit down beside her on the kitchen floor and weeps with her when she has a that-time-of-the-month hysterical reaction”.
That I think is very true… A man is the protector of the woman and their child… so he has to be a person that gives some kind of feeling of security and strength… but in a good way…
And one last thing: a man who can’t cry is not a man. Also… I like the poetic passionate type… hm… I am writing a bit too much here.
Another survey in Sweden recently showed that the evolution theory is wrong: whom different men and women fall for is as many types as the number of stars in the skyes… there is a man and a woman for every taste