Ideas: what do young Catholics need right now? {dating and relationships}

[Norseman82]

If people in real life gave you pointers (to stop doing certain things or start doing certain things), would you listen?

I think the real question is “are you willing to listen to us”?

 

[Norseman82]

A wife is not a reward. A family is not something you are just entitled to. If you want to lead a family, then you need to be prepared to put in the work to find and build it. It doesn’t get easier after the vows.

You seem to think that you deserve a wife because you’re a “better” Catholic than some of the married men you know. A pastor has absolutly no place telling their flock that they’re marrying the wrong people and should have instead married “better” Catholics. Besides, those marriages are doctrinally sound provided the process was followed.

Likewise, Catholics know premarital sex is wrong. A prayer for vocations is one thing, but I’m not sure why marriage is special. There’s a huge priest shortage and convents close all the time.

Unless I personally told a pastor that I wanted help, I would absolutely walk away and probably complain to the Bishop if I was being set up, introduced, or otherwise pressured to meet men in church. How creepy and uncomfortable.

Again, a wife is a person and a marriage is a bond. These things are not rewards, they are not owed to you, and they certainly have nothing to do with your adherence to the “rules”.

I’m sorry if you got the impression that “followimg the rules” would earn you a wife. But like with everything else in life, you should strive to do the right thing because it’s right, not because it will somehow cosmically entitle you to a woman.

It is human nature to want something for your efforts, otherwise why make the effort? In the story of the Prodigal Son, the father did not berate the older son as having an entitlement complex or saying he should simply obey the father’s rules simply because it is the right thing to do. Even in our faith, we strive to be good Catholics not simply because it is the right thing to do, but because we want eternal life - as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians, if there is no resurrection, then we have believed in vain.

So yeah, I don’t want my efforts to be in vain.

 

[Xantippe]

I think the real question is “are you willing to listen to us”?

Let me give you an analogy: You are hoping to summit Mt. Everest. But you want the people who have already summited Mt. Everest to listen to you.

Which party has more information to share that the other doesn’t already have?

 

[Norseman82]

Let me give you an analogy: You are hoping to summit Mt. Everest. But you want the people who have already summited Mt. Everest to listen to you.

Which party has more information to share that the other doesn’t already have?

Except that when I read some of the things posted on CAF, the more accurate analogy I see is that it is wrong to summit Mt. Everest in the first place, and that we should accept our vocation is to remain on the flat prairie and be satisfied there.

Oh, and if I save and sacrifice and put down money for expensive mountain climbing equipment, if I actually expect mountain climbing equipment instead of beach gear, then I have an entitlement complex.

 

[Xantippe]

Except that when I read some of the things posted on CAF, the more accurate analogy I see is that it is wrong to summit Mt. Everest in the first place, and that we should accept our vocation is to remain on the flat prairie and be satisfied there.

Oh, and if I save and sacrifice and put down money for expensive mountain climbing equipment, if I actually expect mountain climbing equipment instead of beach gear, then I have an entitlement complex.

Well, as with Everest, even if you pay the plane fare, buy the equipment, and hire sherpas, there’s no guarantee that you’ll get an appropriate break in the weather so that you’ll be able to make it to the top. It’s very dangerous to try to summit in unfavorable conditions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster

There are no guarantees and outcomes are not entirely in our control.

 

[Norseman82]

Well, as with Everest, even if you pay the plane fare, buy the equipment, and hire sherpas, there’s no guarantee that you’ll get an appropriate break in the weather so that you’ll be able to make it to the top. It’s very dangerous to try to summit in unfavorable conditions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster

There are no guarantees and outcomes are not entirely in our control.

When I think about it more, Mt. Everest is not a good analogy for marriage, because climbing Mt. Everest is something very few people do, whereas marriage is the vocation written into our very nature, according to the CCC, so should be available to all (except the exceptions that have canonical impediments or those that have a vocation to one of the celibate vocations).

 

[Xantippe]

When I think about it more, Mt. Everest is not a good analogy for marriage, because climbing Mt. Everest is something very few people do, whereas marriage is the vocation written into our very nature, according to the CCC, so should be available to all (except the exceptions that have canonical impediments or those that have a vocation to one of the celibate vocations).

Marriage has never been available to everybody that wanted to get married.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

It is human nature to want something for your efforts, otherwise why make the effort? In the story of the Prodigal Son, the father did not berate the older son as having an entitlement complex or saying he should simply obey the father’s rules simply because it is the right thing to do. Even in our faith, we strive to be good Catholics not simply because it is the right thing to do, but because we want eternal life - as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians, if there is no resurrection, then we have believed in vain.

So yeah, I don’t want my efforts to be in vain.

Your effort is for eternal life. John 3:16 said nothing about turning to god and finding a woman.

You seem to believe that you just deserve to be married. Not only that, you believe your church and pastor are obligated to make this happen. But what about the other half of this? If you deserve a woman, and are entitled to be married, that means that someone is obligated to make those vows to you. So who is it? Which one of the many women in this world have you earned? Who is shirking their responsibilities? How do you know that you have rights to this elusive woman?

Again, she’s a human. You have to connect with her. No one can order her to you, bring her to you, out otherwise convince her that being with you is the best or most holy choice.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Marriage has never been available to everybody that wanted to get married.

Doesn’t everyone know at least one person who wanted to marry but never did? My husband and I each have an elderly relative or two that it just never happened for. Yeah, they wanted to be married and not having it lead to loneliness and heartache. But what can you do?

 

[pianistclare]

Your effort is for eternal life. John 3:16 said nothing about turning to god and finding a woman.

You seem to believe that you just deserve to be married. Not only that, you believe your church and pastor are obligated to make this happen. But what about the other half of this? If you deserve a woman, and are entitled to be married, that means that someone is obligated to make those vows to you. So who is it? Which one of the many women in this world have you earned? Who is shirking their responsibilities? How do you know that you have rights to this elusive woman?

Again, she’s a human. You have to connect with her. No one can order her to you, bring her to you, out otherwise convince her that being with you is the best or most holy choice.

Yes.

 

[Xantippe]

When I think about it more, Mt. Everest is not a good analogy for marriage, because climbing Mt. Everest is something very few people do, whereas marriage is the vocation written into our very nature, according to the CCC, so should be available to all (except the exceptions that have canonical impediments or those that have a vocation to one of the celibate vocations).

Also, come to think of it, not everybody is capable of having a happy marriage, of being a good spouse, or of being a decent parent.

In fact, I think there are a lot of people that are simply incapable of fulfilling the basic responsibilities of both marriage and parenthood.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I’m a little late to the party here, but I think Norseman82 is being misunderstood and unjustly crucified as a result. Several posters have accused Norseman of wanting the church to just “make it happen” for him in terms of finding a spouse, and that he considers himself entitled to marriage. After reading the thread I do not see where Norseman said anything of the kind. Before I elaborate on my position I want to make an important distinction between the Church (with a capital C) and the church. The first one refers to the mystical body of Jesus Christ against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail. The second refers to an organization centered around a collection of buildings owned and run by a group of celibate bureaucrats whose livelihood is largely dependent upon the charitable donations of their parishioners. As far as I can tell, all that Norseman is saying is that he believes that the church should be sponsoring more events and activities that allow single people to meet and mingle. Explain to me how that’s an unreasonable request.

But how is anyone’s inability to find a spouse the church’s problem? Well, bearing in mind the distinction I made above, what is the church’s job? Is it not to evangelize the catechumens and minister to the faithful in the interest of promoting their spiritual wellbeing? BlueEyedLady mentioned in one of her posts that marriage is a bond. To Catholics marriage is also one of the seven sacraments – the primary means by which the church maintains and nourishes the spiritual lives of the laity. Given that marriage is a sacrament, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to say that the church should have no interest in facilitating Catholic marriages.

So you’re saying that you want the church to do all the work for you? No. But if the church can help the faithful in anything, isn’t that kind of what it’s here for? The church exists to serve the Church. Christ gave that example to his Apostles when he washed their feet and when he told Peter to feed his sheep. If the church is failing in this regard why shouldn’t the laity call them on it?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I’m a little late to the party here, but I think Norseman82 is being misunderstood and unjustly crucified as a result. Several posters have accused Norseman of wanting the church to just “make it happen” for him in terms of finding a spouse, and that he considers himself entitled to marriage. After reading the thread I do not see where Norseman said anything of the kind. Before I elaborate on my position I want to make an important distinction between the Church (with a capital C) and the church. The first one refers to the mystical body of Jesus Christ against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail. The second refers to an organization centered around a collection of buildings owned and run by a group of celibate bureaucrats whose livelihood is largely dependent upon the charitable donations of their parishioners. As far as I can tell, all that Norseman is saying is that he believes that the church should be sponsoring more events and activities that allow single people to meet and mingle. Explain to me how that’s an unreasonable request.

But how is anyone’s inability to find a spouse the church’s problem? Well, bearing in mind the distinction I made above, what is the church’s job? Is it not to evangelize the catechumens and minister to the faithful in the interest of promoting their spiritual wellbeing? BlueEyedLady mentioned in one of her posts that marriage is a bond. To Catholics marriage is also one of the seven sacraments – the primary means by which the church maintains and nourishes the spiritual lives of the laity. Given that marriage is a sacrament, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to say that the church should have no interest in facilitating Catholic marriages.

So you’re saying that you want the church to do all the work for you? No. But if the church can help the faithful in anything, isn’t that kind of what it’s here for? The church exists to serve the Church. Christ gave that example to his Apostles when he washed their feet and when he told Peter to feed his sheep. If the church is failing in this regard why shouldn’t the laity call them on it?

I guess you missed the part about not wanting his adherence to the rules to be in vain, and the part where he is upset because women are marrying less worthy men than him and priests should be denouncing that.

Bad attitude for a Catholic, worse attitude for a husband.

 

[Sarcelle]

I’m a little late to the party here, but I think Norseman82 is being misunderstood and unjustly crucified as a result. Several posters have accused Norseman of wanting the church to just “make it happen” for him in terms of finding a spouse, and that he considers himself entitled to marriage. After reading the thread I do not see where Norseman said anything of the kind. Before I elaborate on my position I want to make an important distinction between the Church (with a capital C) and the church. The first one refers to the mystical body of Jesus Christ against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail. The second refers to an organization centered around a collection of buildings owned and run by a group of celibate bureaucrats whose livelihood is largely dependent upon the charitable donations of their parishioners. As far as I can tell, all that Norseman is saying is that he believes that the church should be sponsoring more events and activities that allow single people to meet and mingle. Explain to me how that’s an unreasonable request.

But how is anyone’s inability to find a spouse the church’s problem? Well, bearing in mind the distinction I made above, what is the church’s job? Is it not to evangelize the catechumens and minister to the faithful in the interest of promoting their spiritual wellbeing? BlueEyedLady mentioned in one of her posts that marriage is a bond. To Catholics marriage is also one of the seven sacraments – the primary means by which the church maintains and nourishes the spiritual lives of the laity. Given that marriage is a sacrament, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to say that the church should have no interest in facilitating Catholic marriages.

So you’re saying that you want the church to do all the work for you? No. But if the church can help the faithful in anything, isn’t that kind of what it’s here for? The church exists to serve the Church. Christ gave that example to his Apostles when he washed their feet and when he told Peter to feed his sheep. If the church is failing in this regard why shouldn’t the laity call them on it?

In the ten years I’ve been a practicing Catholic the parishes I’ve attended already have a lot of activities that singles can participate and meet each other. However the most active participants seem to be retired couples. A lot of the younger folks are busy working.

The parish priests already have a lot on their plate with visiting the sick at their homes or in hospitals, prison ministries, homeless ministries, the day to day job of running the parish. They’re spread too thin. Now they have to run matchmaking activities too?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

In the ten years I’ve been a practicing Catholic the parishes I’ve attended already have a lot of activities that singles can participate and meet each other. However the most active participants seem to be retired couples. A lot of the younger folks are busy working.

The parish priests already have a lot on their plate with visiting the sick at their homes or in hospitals, prison ministries, homeless ministries, the day to day job of running the parish. They’re spread too thin. Now they have to run matchmaking activities too?

Every city I’ve ever lived in has meetup groups. Colleges have tons of social events, even for graduate and professional students. And then there’s the internet, where dating sites abound. If you want to meet people, the avenues are already there. It’s a matter of making the choice to do so.

Norseman’s position sounds a lot more like he’s mad that god hadn’t awarded him a woman for his good behavior and he blames the church for his predicament than it does a request for more social events.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

…the part where he is upset because women are marrying less worthy men than him and priests should be denouncing that.

Was that on this thread? I read over Norseman’s post on this thread again…twice! That part escaped my notice.

…the part about not wanting his adherence to the rules to be in vain

Of course he doesn’t want his adherence to the rules to be in vain! That’s not selfishness that’s rational thought! So what’s your counter argument? As was the case the last time you and I had a difference of opinion you neglected to respond to the questions I posed. I asserted that the liberal throwing of vitriol going on in this thread was unnecessary and unwarranted and I elaborated on my reasoning. If you’d address the points I made then maybe we could get somewhere. Instead you try to rope me into a circular argument of “He said this!” “No he didn’t!” “Oh yes he did!”

And then there’s the internet, where dating sites abound. If you want to meet people, the avenues are already there. It’s a matter of making the choice to do so.

Dating sites are your answer?!? I wasted so much time and money trying to make those things pay off, and if you read some of the other threads on CAF you’ll see that I’m not the only one who gave up on that pipe dream.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Was that on this thread? I read over Norseman’s post on this thread again…twice! That part escaped my notice.

Well, he wants pastors to start admonishing people for marrying people who aren’t as good of a Catholic as he is. That’s a huge and immature judgement to make.

Of course he doesn’t want his adherence to the rules to be in vain! That’s not selfishness that’s rational thought! So what’s your counter argument? As was the case the last time you and I had a difference of opinion you neglected to respond to the questions I posed. I asserted that the liberal throwing of vitriol going on in this thread was unnecessary and unwarranted and I elaborated on my reasoning. If you’d address the points I made then maybe we could get somewhere. Instead you try to rope me into a circular argument of “He said this!” “No he didn’t!” “Oh yes he did!”

This is the most problematic part of his outlook. Where in the Bible or catechism is it even hinted that a wife is a reward for good behavior, or that following the church’s rules would even make it more likely to find one? His effort won’t be in vain of her goes to heaven. Worldly concerns about marriage have nothing to do with this.

Dating sites are your answer?!? I wasted so much time and money trying to make those things pay off, and if you read some of the other threads on CAF you’ll see that I’m not the only one who gave up on that pipe dream.

Uhhhhh…they were part of the solution, I named many others. If used correctly, dating sites can work very well. No, not for everyone. But read CAF, a lot of people did find their spouses there. Even non Christians find husbands and wives online, just look at current marriage stats. Even I met my husband on a secular site. I’m not sure why you think the same old activities with the same old singles in your parish is likely to work any better.

 

[Sandile73]

Hi everyone can anyone help me why do Ministers and Lay-Ministers wash their hands before and after communion distribution?

 

[EasterJoy]

It doesn’t even require being “set up”. It could be a simple waving one over and saying “Hi, do you know X” after Mass and leave it at that. And what if a pastor does hear from both genders that they are having a hard time meeting someone? I think that would fit your requirements of “expressing a desire”, am I correct?..

Add “matchmaker” to the list of the pastoral duties of a parish priest? Why? Because you’re too good for the young women your parents would introduce you to? Because you don’t want the young women that the old ladies in the parish will introduce you to? Finding spouses for the faithful has never been the duty of the pastor and it shouldn’t be.

A parish priest is more likely to have St. Paul’s take on the whole thing:
*I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit. A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to impose a restraint upon you, but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord without distraction. *
1 Cor. 7:32-35

Who are you to think a priest should not want an undistracted life for you? Because you think he ought to be concerned about breeding the best Catholics to each other in order to churn out those parishioners and those parochial school students and to fatten up “the envelopes” as you put it? He should fail to aim you towards a life of serving the Lord without distraction for those things? No. Heaven forbid.

It is for the priest to encourage those with the vocation to marriage to actually marry each other, not to drum up vocations to the married life among those who might have been better-suited to a life devoted to the Lord without distraction. If you are bent on getting married, well, if your pastor is biting his lip and not telling you to be careful what you wish for, that is enough. Marriage is rewarding but it difficult, it is not the easiest road in the Christian life nor by any default is it the best road. There is no reason for your pastor to push you into it. Rather, it is for him to help you live that vocation if that is the vocation you and your spouse choose.

 

[EasterJoy]

Hi everyone can anyone help me why do Ministers and Lay-Ministers wash their hands before and after communion distribution?

You need to start a new thread. This thread is a conversation is about a very different topic.

You’ll also want to post your question about liturgy in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum, not the Family forum. The separate forums help people looking for questions about particular topics to find whether their question has been posed and answered recently. Look through the threads in that forum from the past three months or so before posting your “new” question, to make sure you’re not repeating a question that has already been discussed recently. (If you can only find the question on an old thread and still have questions, just start a new thread.)