Ideas: what do young Catholics need right now? {dating and relationships}

[BlueEyedLady]

Add “matchmaker” to the list of the pastoral duties of a parish priest? Why? Because you’re too good for the young women your parents would introduce you to? Because you don’t want the young women that the old ladies in the parish will introduce you to? Finding spouses for the faithful has never been the duty of the pastor and it shouldn’t be.

A parish priest is more likely to have St. Paul’s take on the whole thing:
*I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit. A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to impose a restraint upon you, but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord without distraction. *
1 Cor. 7:32-35

Who are you to think a priest should not want an undistracted life for you? Because you think he ought to be concerned about breeding the best Catholics to each other in order to churn out those parishioners and those parochial school students and to fatten up “the envelopes” as you put it? He should fail to aim you towards a life of serving the Lord without distraction for those things? No. Heaven forbid.

It is for the priest to encourage those with the vocation to marriage to actually marry each other, not to drum up vocations to the married life among those who might have been better-suited to a life devoted to the Lord without distraction. If you are bent on getting married, well, if your pastor is biting his lip and not telling you to be careful what you wish for, that is enough. Marriage is rewarding but it difficult, it is not the easiest road in the Christian life nor by any default is it the best road. There is no reason for your pastor to push you into it. Rather, it is for him to help you live that vocation if that is the vocation you and your spouse choose.

That was really beautifully put.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Well, he wants pastors to start admonishing people for marrying people who aren’t as good of a Catholic as he is. That’s a huge and immature judgement to make.

Once again I ask, where in this thread did he say that? Can you provide a reference to the post where he expressed that view?

This is the most problematic part of his outlook. Where in the Bible or catechism is it even hinted that a wife is a reward for good behavior, or that following the church’s rules would even make it more likely to find one?

Sigh Before I go too deep down this rabbit hole I’m going to ask that you give me an example of any verbiage that supports your assertion that either Norseman or I believe that chastity should guarantee a good wife. Personally, I don’t believe there are any guarantees in this life, outside of death and taxes. Nonetheless, I would hope that the fact that I have thus far kept my virginity intact and try to play by God’s rules would count for something in the mind of a practicing, Catholic young lady.

Uhhhhh…they were part of the solution…Even non Christians find husbands and wives online, just look at current marriage stats. Even I met my husband on a secular site.

Well flatulations that’s great! Sure more people are dating online but do your statistics tell the whole story? According to a google search I just did there are more than 54 million people in the U.S. that are currently using dating websites. However, as an ex-user of multiple dating websites I would confidently assert that at least two-thirds of those people have not logged on in more than three weeks, and as much as fifty percent haven’t logged on in more than a month. If you do a search on pretty much any halfway decent dating website it will tell you when each person in the results list was last active, so I base my assertion on the *hundreds *of times I’ve searched on these sites. It’s a lot like when the government tells as that unemployment is going down without taking into account the number of people you have stopped looking for a job or those that are underemployed at McDonalds. Another thing to take into account is that there are less people getting married and if they do marry they are waiting until they get older. Another google search turned up an article that postulates that 25% of millennials will never get married at all.
time.com/3422624/report-millennials-marriage/
So maybe the number of marriages that begin online is going up but the big picture is not so flattering.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

In the ten years I’ve been a practicing Catholic the parishes I’ve attended already have a lot of activities that singles can participate and meet each other. However the most active participants seem to be retired couples. A lot of the younger folks are busy working.

The parish priests already have a lot on their plate with visiting the sick at their homes or in hospitals, prison ministries, homeless ministries, the day to day job of running the parish. They’re spread too thin. Now they have to run matchmaking activities too?

A) I never said the priest specifically has to do everything. If my pastor asked for volunteers in organizing an event for young singles, my hand would go up in a heartbeat. Priests in general but certainly pastors are seen as the leaders within a parish so it’s always helpful if the impetus comes from them. If the pastor wants to do something people will be more likely to jump onboard the bandwagon, especially if it’s for something that they can emotionally invest in. There is nothing wrong with priests delegating when they have to.

B) Yes there is a priest shortage, which means that priest are busier than they were several decades ago, but allow me to add a little perspective. In the twenty years that it has taken for my five younger siblings and I to all complete our time as home-schooled students I may have met maybe one priest that worked half as hard as my parents did. It wasn’t perfect but my Mom and Dad worked their butts off to give us the best, most Catholic education that they could. Several times a week my Dad would come home after a full, eight-hour day and teach history, math, or religion to one or more us. Moreover he spent every Sunday afternoon planning out which lessons we would need to do in the upcoming week. All this was done in addition to all the normal responsibilities that even non-homeschooling parents have.

C) The clergy may be spread thin, but that doesn’t seem to stop them from organizing events geared towards vocation discernment.

 

[EasterJoy]

It is human nature to want something for your efforts, otherwise why make the effort? In the story of the Prodigal Son, the father did not berate the older son as having an entitlement complex or saying he should simply obey the father’s rules simply because it is the right thing to do. Even in our faith, we strive to be good Catholics not simply because it is the right thing to do, but because we want eternal life - as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians, if there is no resurrection, then we have believed in vain.

So yeah, I don’t want my efforts to be in vain.

What is this about “wanting something” for your effort? Isn’t this thread about finding a spouse? Did someone tell you that you had to find someone to marry in order to find eternal life?

*“Who among you would say to your servant who has just come in from plowing or tending sheep in the field, ‘Come here immediately and take your place at table’? Would he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat. Put on your apron and wait on me while I eat and drink. You may eat and drink when I am finished’? Is he grateful to that servant because he did what was commanded? So should it be with you. When you have done all you have been commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants; we have done what we were obliged to do.’” * Luke 17:7-10

You want a wife, so you’re out looking for one. That’s fine. If you don’t find one, don’t fault anyone else or imply that your desire means you ought to expect to get what you want. It doesn’t work like that, that is not among the promises we’ve received, and if you think twice I think you understand that.

Do not mistake the mercy of God on those who fall as forgetfulness of those who stood fast. As the father in the story of the prodigal said, “My son, you are here with me always; everything I have is yours.” (Luke 15:31) Those who fall from grace can hope for mercy and pardon, but the glory of standing fast can only go to those who actually stood fast. That crown is reserved for those who merit it; do not let any deceiver lead you in any other direction of thought than that. God is just; no one who merits reward will be slighted in the least.
*
"I know your works (behold, I have left an open door before you, which no one can close). You have limited strength, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Behold, I will make those of the assembly of Satan who claim to be Jews and are not, but are lying, behold I will make them come and fall prostrate at your feet, and they will realize that I love you. Because you have kept my message of endurance, I will keep you safe in the time of trial that is going to come to the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. I am coming quickly. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one may take your crown.*
Rev. 3:8-11

 

[EasterJoy]

…Priests in general but certainly pastors are seen as the leaders within a parish so it’s always helpful if the impetus comes from them…

Nope, nope…nope. Stop. No. Finding matches for singles is not part of his pastoral office. If that is your work, then do it. If you need something particular as help, ask for it, but do not ask him to pretend he’s made himself into the parish matchmaker.

Yes there is a priest shortage, which means that priest are busier than they were several decades ago, but allow me to add a little perspective. In the twenty years that it has taken for my five younger siblings and I to all complete our time as home-schooled students I may have met maybe one priest that worked half as hard as my parents did. It wasn’t perfect but my Mom and Dad worked their butts off to give us the best, most Catholic education that they could. Several times a week my Dad would come home after a full, eight-hour day and teach history, math, or religion to one or more us. Moreover he spent every Sunday afternoon planning out which lessons we would need to do in the upcoming week. All this was done in addition to all the normal responsibilities that even non-homeschooling parents have.

C) The clergy may be spread thin, but that doesn’t seem to stop them from organizing events geared towards vocation discernment.

FINDING A WIFE FOR YOU IS NOT HIS PASTORAL RESPONSIBILITY. IT IS NOT HIS WORK TO DO. There is no reason in this world he ought to be encouraging you to marry unless the inclination starts with you.

It doesn’t matter if he has time to play poker twice a week and keeps a rose garden in the yard at the rectory–helping you to find a wife is not his job!!

If your parents chose to home-school you, that is fine, but don’t you dare use the time-consuming reality of that choice to criticize your pastor for not jumping when* you *tell him he needs to hop. If that is how your parents taught you to see the priesthood–which I very much doubt!!–they probably should have left teaching that part of the catechism to someone else.

Be honest, though–you got none of this “philosophy” from your parents, did you?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

---

Once again I ask, where in this thread did he say that? Can you provide a reference to the post where he expressed that view?

Sigh Before I go too deep down this rabbit hole I’m going to ask that you give me an example of any verbiage that supports your assertion that either Norseman or I believe that chastity should guarantee a good wife. Personally, I don’t believe there are any guarantees in this life, outside of death and taxes. Nonetheless, I would hope that the fact that I have thus far kept my virginity intact and try to play by God’s rules would count for something in the mind of a practicing, Catholic young lady.

Well flatulations that’s great! Sure more people are dating online but do your statistics tell the whole story? According to a google search I just did there are more than 54 million people in the U.S. that are currently using dating websites. However, as an ex-user of multiple dating websites I would confidently assert that at least two-thirds of those people have not logged on in more than three weeks, and as much as fifty percent haven’t logged on in more than a month. If you do a search on pretty much any halfway decent dating website it will tell you when each person in the results list was last active, so I base my assertion on the *hundreds *of times I’ve searched on these sites. It’s a lot like when the government tells as that unemployment is going down without taking into account the number of people you have stopped looking for a job or those that are underemployed at McDonalds. Another thing to take into account is that there are less people getting married and if they do marry they are waiting until they get older. Another google search turned up an article that postulates that 25% of millennials will never get married at all.
time.com/3422624/report-millennials-marriage/
So maybe the number of marriages that begin online is going up but the big picture is not sogttering.

“Or, when the occasion allows, simply mention in the homily how some of the secular values that have permeated the dating culture are wrong? Or telling Catholics to be “team players” and stop rejecting good Catholics for those who aren’t?”

Right there, from several pages ago. Is that appropriate? Should a pastor use his position to tell people that they should have married “better” Catholics? I can’t imagine a priest saying that, it would be an abuse of his authority and a slap in the face to the valid mixed marriages in the congregation (as well as the sacramental marriages to less than perfect or formerly less than perfect Catholics).

What does virginity have to do with anything? If you’re a virgin in hopes of being rewarded with a wife, then you aren’t chaste for the right reasons, and any devout woman will see through that. And if you’re holding yourself up as a “better” option for her than other men based on that, she’ll probably run and rightfully so.

How many people in dating sites get married is not the right question. How many marriages start on dating sites is a better approach, and that’s about 1/3.

usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/03/online-dating-marriage/2377961/

I still don’t get what you want done. Complaints aren’t action. What are some concrete steps that could be taken to solve this “problem”?

 

[Xantippe]

So you’re saying that you want the church to do all the work for you? No. But if the church can help the faithful in anything, isn’t that kind of what it’s here for? The church exists to serve the Church. Christ gave that example to his Apostles when he washed their feet and when he told Peter to feed his sheep. If the church is failing in this regard why shouldn’t the laity call them on it?

The only problem I see with that is that the laity are the most obvious people for doing that sort of ministry. Father is undoubtedly a wonderful person, but Father has probably never successfully wooed a prospective spouse. The expertise in this area is almost all in the hands of lay people.

So the laity would be calling themselves to account for not doing more for other lay people…

 

[EasterJoy]

I think this conversation might take a better turn if we turned attention to ideas that do not involve giving the pastor any match-making “duties” or telling him how to teach morals.

Let’s just leave that alone, pro or con. Surely that is not all that high on the list of what “young Catholics need right now” with regards to dating and relationships.

What else? Let’s turn the brainstorm in a new direction, since that one is contentious.

 

[Xantippe]

Every city I’ve ever lived in has meetup groups. Colleges have tons of social events, even for graduate and professional students. And then there’s the internet, where dating sites abound. If you want to meet people, the avenues are already there. It’s a matter of making the choice to do so.

Yes.

I’ve recently gotten joined Meetup, and even in our moderate-sized city, there is a bewildering array of groups (including one for people who want to remember their previous reincarnations). I’ve just joined two mom groups (including a Catholic one) and my in-box is stuffed with enticing options.

It would be child’s play to create a meetup with a name like “fun Catholic professional singles group” and then advertise it at Masses.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The only problem I see with that is that the laity are the most obvious people for doing that sort of ministry. Father is undoubtedly a wonderful person, but Father has probably never successfully wooed a prospective spouse. The expertise in this area is almost all in the hands of lay people.

So the laity would be calling themselves to account for not doing more for other lay people…

How awkward and painful would it be if Joe liked Sue but Father really thought Sue and Mike would hit it off, so he sets them up. Father knew of Joe’s feelings, but he had a good feeling about Sue and Mike. Now let’s say Mike does not have the squeaky clean past Joe does. Talk about anger, bitterness, and resentment.

That’s why Father stays out. He’s everyone’s shepard and can’t go choosing one sheep over another. Too much subjectivity and emotion involved. Leave it to the church ladies.

 

[pianistclare]

How awkward and painful would it be if Joe liked Sue but Father really thought Sue and Mike would hit it off, so he sets them up. Father knew of Joe’s feelings, but he had a good feeling about Sue and Mike. Now let’s say Mike does not have the squeaky clean past Joe does. Talk about anger, bitterness, and resentment.

That’s why Father stays out. He’s everyone’s shepard and can’t go choosing one sheep over another. Too much subjectivity and emotion involved. Leave it to the church ladies.

Exactly. I can’t even imagine how awkward it would be for one’s confessor to try to set one up with a “nice Catholic girl”.

 

[Xantippe]

How awkward and painful would it be if Joe liked Sue but Father really thought Sue and Mike would hit it off, so he sets them up. Father knew of Joe’s feelings, but he had a good feeling about Sue and Mike. Now let’s say Mike does not have the squeaky clean past Joe does. Talk about anger, bitterness, and resentment.

That’s why Father stays out. He’s everyone’s shepard and can’t go choosing one sheep over another. Too much subjectivity and emotion involved. Leave it to the church ladies.

Plus, Father may have heard WAY too much about Joe’s masturbation habit.

That’s another complicating factor–Father is privy to a lot of private information (both from the confessional and outside).

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Plus, Father may have heard WAY too much about Joe’s masturbation habit.

That’s another complicating factor–Father is privy to a lot of private information (both from the confessional and outside).

That’s why I rarely go to confession in my own parish. Some things are best left to God and often the best way to insure that is to go to a priest who doesn’t know me.

In other news, Norseman and Shadow Boxer may take great umbrage at being seen as wanting a spouse guaranteed to them, okay their point is made, but I will say this: these otherwise fine and upstanding gentlemen are still showing a sense of entitlement. While I too am a single Catholic man, I’ve come to realize that while the Truth will set one free, it ain’t required to be fair or that it makes one feel good. Ever. Get that out of your head, remember the parable of the talents. Your life and your talents are a gift from the Lord, what you do with it is on you. Does the burden of performance weigh on you? Does the understanding of how women are different from men make you angry? Are you upset about what you don’t have? Yes to any of these? Then can you remember the Tenth Commandment and express that in your life? Be happy for others? Whatever the outcome of your life, can you do your best to remain reconciled to the Lord through prayer and confession?

By the way, I’ve seen that entitled to a spouse attitude among women as well. It’s not attractive in either sex.

Meetup.com is an excellent suggestion though it is mostly secular. But still good for getting out of the house.

 

[EasterJoy]

The only problem I see with that is that the laity are the most obvious people for doing that sort of ministry…

Can we please not call this a ministry? Maybe this is just my little pet peeve, but ministry and Christian service are not the same thing. The latter category is much broader. Besides, I don’t know that I’d go so far as to consider trying to get singles set up is a “service,” either. Why? I don’t know. I guess when it comes to spouses, the ideal is mutual self-service. The fewer outside fingerprints on the final product, the better. So yes, make it easier for people who want to meet each other to do it, but they really ought to be considered the only ones who are captains of that cruise ship.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Plus, Father may have heard WAY too much about Joe’s masturbation habit.

That’s another complicating factor–Father is privy to a lot of private information (both from the confessional and outside).

Hopefully Joe isn’t going into enough detail that his habit sticks out in Father’s mind any more than the other million times he hears that sin confessed. Talk about awkward.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

That’s why I rarely go to confession in my own parish. Some things are best left to God and often the best way to insure that is to go to a priest who doesn’t know me.

In other news, Norseman and Shadow Boxer may take great umbrage at being seen as wanting a spouse guaranteed to them, okay their point is made, but I will say this: these otherwise fine and upstanding gentlemen are still showing a sense of entitlement. While I too am a single Catholic man, I’ve come to realize that while the Truth will set one free, it ain’t required to be fair or that it makes one feel good. Ever. Get that out of your head, remember the parable of the talents. Your life and your talents are a gift from the Lord, what you do with it is on you. Does the burden of performance weigh on you? Does the understanding of how women are different from men make you angry? Are you upset about what you don’t have? Yes to any of these? Then can you remember the Tenth Commandment and express that in your life? Be happy for others? Whatever the outcome of your life, can you do your best to remain reconciled to the Lord through prayer and confession?

By the way, I’ve seen that entitled to a spouse attitude among women as well. It’s not attractive in either sex.

Meetup.com is an excellent suggestion though it is mostly secular. But still good for getting out of the house.

Nice to see a more balanced and objective response. I will answer all your questions then provide an analogy which will hopefully clarify my position for you.

Does the burden of performance weigh on you? At the end of the day, yes.
Does the understanding of how women are different from men make you angry? Not at all. My hope and desire in that area is for male voices to be heard with as much respect and concern as female ones.
**Are you upset about what you don’t have? ** No more than anyone else ever is.
Can you remember the Tenth Commandment and express that in your own life? I think the temptations I deal with fall more under the Sixth Commandment, but I will certainly try not to covet any married women in the future.
Be happy for others? Sure. I don’t bear anyone any ill will for having something that I don’t. God knows I have my faults but I don’t think Envy is one of them.
**Whatever the outcome of your life, can you do your best to remain reconciled to the Lord through prayer and confession? ** I go to confession regularly and I don’t intend to change. I do pray although I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t sometimes feel as if I’m wasting my time.

Let’s say a guy wants to put together a basketball team that represents his local borough in a travel league. Enough kids are excited to compete and the parents are cool with it. The only question is where can they hold practices? Up the road is a publicly funded athletic facility with a nice, new court. The coach and many of his players’ parents frequently use the workout equipment since they’re paying for it with their taxes anyway. So the coach calls the Facilities Manager and asks if he can schedule an hour-long time slot once a week for his team to practice. Now the amount of effort put forth by that coach and his team will ultimately decide whether they have a winning record or not. That being said is he out of line for requesting the use of the court once a week?

Whether you agree with me or not I hope that clarifies my position. I confess to being a tad bewildered as to why so many people seemed to take my viewpoint as a personal insult. But whatever. That’s all I am going to say because it would be a waste of time for me to say anything more. My thanks to Zzyzx for his response.

 

[Xantippe]

N

Does the understanding of how women are different from men make you angry? Not at all. My hope and desire in that area is for male voices to be heard with as much respect and concern as female ones.

[snip]

Let’s say a guy wants to put together a basketball team that represents his local borough in a travel league. Enough kids are excited to compete and the parents are cool with it. The only question is where can they hold practices? Up the road is a publicly funded athletic facility with a nice, new court. The coach and many of his players’ parents frequently use the workout equipment since they’re paying for it with their taxes anyway. So the coach calls the Facilities Manager and asks if he can schedule an hour-long time slot once a week for his team to practice. Now the amount of effort put forth by that coach and his team will ultimately decide whether they have a winning record or not. That being said is he out of line for requesting the use of the court once a week?

1. Both sexes do get equal voice where it counts–in choosing a prospective spouse. Both men and women have the ability to say no to those that they feel they are incompatible with and/or who are unattractive to them.
2. What court don’t you have access to that you feel you ought to? People (for instance BEL) have offered a lot of thoughts as to how to go about meeting kindred souls. There was a suggestion (from Polar Guy?) in this thread or elsewhere about doing an announcement after Mass for an after-Mass dinner group.

It may be possible to pooh pooh people who have been married some time when we offer suggestions, but there are a lot of young married couples on CAF (not to mention some older newlywed couples). How about listening to their thoughts on how they met their spouse?

 

[Xantippe]

1. On reflection, I get the impression that some of the guys that struggle the most with meeting nice women are guys that 1) work in male-dominated professions and 2) have hobbies and interests that are male-dominated.

If that’s your situation, I suggest working hard on develop some familiarity and ease around women by giving yourself more opportunities for casual, friendly contact with women in low-pressure settings. If you can get comfortable talking to women when it doesn’t really matter, you won’t choke when the right person comes by.

(The same applies to women in female-dominated professions with female-dominated hobbies and interests, of course.)

 

[Xantippe]

Exactly. I can’t even imagine how awkward it would be for one’s confessor to try to set one up with a “nice Catholic girl”.

Guaranteed 99% mortal sin free!

 

[Burt_Macklin]

1. On reflection, I get the impression that some of the guys that struggle the most with meeting nice women are guys that 1) work in male-dominated professions and 2) have hobbies and interests that are male-dominated.

If that’s your situation, I suggest working hard on develop some familiarity and ease around women by giving yourself more opportunities for casual, friendly contact with women in low-pressure settings. If you can get comfortable talking to women when it doesn’t really matter, you won’t choke when the right person comes by.

(The same applies to women in female-dominated professions with female-dominated hobbies and interests, of course.)

A big problem is that this is what the dating pool begins to look like in your 30s:



My brother is in his early 30s and has complained to me on on numerous occasions that he can’t find anyone. He’s handsome, has decent social skills and a good job. He has no trouble getting a date, it’s simply that most of the women he meets have already started a family. Most of the single women he meets are either recently divorced (still married according to the church) or, if they’re free to marry, have spent the past decade cohabitating. It’s not exaclty the way that most men would desire to start a young family. When you’re late to the table sometimes all you get left with is the scraps.