Ideas: what do young Catholics need right now? {dating and relationships}

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Zzyzx_Road said:
That’s why I rarely go to confession in my own parish. Some things are best left to God and often the best way to insure that is to go to a priest who doesn’t know me.

In other news, Norseman and Shadow Boxer may take great umbrage at being seen as wanting a spouse guaranteed to them, okay their point is made, but I will say this: these otherwise fine and upstanding gentlemen are still showing a sense of entitlement. While I too am a single Catholic man, I’ve come to realize that while the Truth will set one free, it ain’t required to be fair or that it makes one feel good. Ever. Get that out of your head, remember the parable of the talents. Your life and your talents are a gift from the Lord, what you do with it is on you. Does the burden of performance weigh on you? Does the understanding of how women are different from men make you angry? Are you upset about what you don’t have? Yes to any of these? Then can you remember the Tenth Commandment and express that in your life? Be happy for others? Whatever the outcome of your life, can you do your best to remain reconciled to the Lord through prayer and confession?

By the way, I’ve seen that entitled to a spouse attitude among women as well. It’s not attractive in either sex.

Meetup.com is an excellent suggestion though it is mostly secular. But still good for getting out of the house.
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Consider this: when the widows who spoke Greek complained about being neglected, were they accused of showing a sense of entiltlement or lectured about the Tenth Commandment? Or in the parable of the prodigal son, did the father tell the obedient brother that he had a sense of entitlement?
 
BlueEyedLady said:
“Or, when the occasion allows, simply mention in the homily how some of the secular values that have permeated the dating culture are wrong? Or telling Catholics to be “team players” and stop rejecting good Catholics for those who aren’t?”

Right there, from several pages ago. Is that appropriate? Should a pastor use his position to tell people that they should have married “better” Catholics? I can’t imagine a priest saying that, it would be an abuse of his authority and a slap in the face to the valid mixed marriages in the congregation (as well as the sacramental marriages to less than perfect or formerly less than perfect Catholics).
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But the pastor’s job is the care of his parishoners’ souls.
 
Xantippe said:
I like Seraphic Singles/Edinburgh Housewife blog, written by the author of The Closet’s All Mine (the book and blog are primarily for women but the same principles apply). There’s also a book entitled How Far Can We Go? by Perrault and Salkeld. I haven’t finished it yet, but it has a nice, non-rigoristic but workable approach to appropriate levels of physical affection during dating.

I’d also lengthen your list:

d. friendship and other social
e. career
f. volunteering
g. personal finance (debt repayment and saving)
h. creating a pleasant home

There’s a lot more to chastity and being a successful single person than just not having sex.
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I like your list.

It’s important to have an education, a career, debt pay off, family oriented, God centered.
 
Norseman82 said:
Let’s also not forget that the pool is kept at dangerously low levels by people who refuse to make themselves available.
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Nobody owes you themselves, their bodies, and their entire future.

For future reference, when somebody (of either sex) says, “I am not interested in marriage” or “I’m not ready for anything serious” what you need to remember is that there’s an inaudible “…to you” or “with you.” If the right person comes along, they will throw everything overboard to be with that person.

Also, if the guy was in the military or seminary, he wasn’t available to the women, was he? So there’s not a lot of point in crying about them not being available to him previously.

Also, I think this resentful blaming of women that ignored you earlier is poppycock. It’s very unlikely to be exactly the same group of women, unless you stay in the same small town your entire life, which is a problem all by itself.

Resentment of women is also very likely to keep women away. A lot of women are empathetic enough to be able to read that a hundred yards away.
 
Norseman82 said:
You are leaving a lot out, like the part further down in 1 Cor. 7 where St. Paul says that it is better to marry than burn and that to avoid immorality, everyone should have their own spouse. Add to that what God said in Genesis about “it is not good for the man to be alone” and what Christ said about “not everyomne can accept” the teaching about “eunichs for the kingdom of God”. Just because celibacy may be a higher calling, not everyone can handle it, and in fact it is possible that what you call an undistracted life is in fact a distraction (sometines to the point of being an occasion of sin).

EasterJoy, are you married? If so, then why did you choose to live the “distracted life”? (I’m asking rhetorically, so you don’t need to answer).
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Show me where the Apostle Paul ever helped somebody to find a wife. No, he said he’d rather you remain like him. Don’t get your nose in a twist if you can’t find a priest willing to be your matchmaker. That is your job. If you need help, don’t go to your pastor. Pray directly to God. You see that in Holy Scriptures, but nothing about apostles or presbyters finding other men wives or finding women husbands.

Oh, and by the way, I never ever asked one of my pastors or anyone else in the Church to find me a husband. I didn’t ever expect it was anyone’s task but mine, and to tell you the truth, I really didn’t go looking for a husband. (Friends who knew us both did try to push the process along, but that was their choice, taken at their hazard. Neither of us asked for that “help.”)
 
EasterJoy said:
Show me where the Apostle Paul ever helped somebody to find a wife. No, he said he’d rather you remain like him. Don’t get your nose in a twist if you can’t find a priest willing to be your matchmaker. That is your job. If you need help, don’t go to your pastor.
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That is a very good point. In fact, while there are plenty of episodes in the Bible where third parties facilitate a match, they’re pretty much always relatives or servants of the family. You can look high and low for an example of a priest doing matchmaking.
 
Bataar said:
It’s in the church’s best interest that Catholic singles are able to meet, form relationships and ultimately create Catholic families. Therefore, it should be doing what it can to help that cause.
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Bataar, you are right on the mark. In May of 2015, the Pew Research Center found that singles now make up 48% of the Catholic Church in the U.S. That’s up 8% from just 5-6 years ago. We are already a nation of singles, and now we are becoming a Church of singles. We are heading into a period of time in which no one marries, even those who are eligible. Don’t believe me? Check out these articles:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/marriage-is-disappearing-in-italy-62150/
foryourmarriage.org/cardinal-dolan-sees-new-urgency-around-marriage/

The situation is unhealthy, not only for those who are supposed to be in a family and aren’t, but for the Church as a whole. Vocations to the priesthood/religious life come from families. If new families aren’t being formed, we will have fewer priests and religious 30 years from now. It’s not about entitlement or a question of whose “job” it is. The real question is do we as a Church want to live with the long term effects of marriage dying out among the faithful.

I don’t claim to have all the best solutions. It’s obvious, however, that something needs to be done to foster vocations to marriage among single Catholics. Many of us have honestly been trying to get married for the last 20-30 years, joining groups at Church, dating online using Catholic sites, being set up by friends, etc., and it’s not working. If nothing else, they could pray at Mass for an increase in vocations to marriage, as Cardinal Dolan has suggested.

As for the usual blame that singles unfairly receive regarding their situation in life, it usually doesn’t occur to people to look to the real source of the problem- the sexual revolution. And you don’t have to be someone who’s caught up in all of the depravity to feel it’s effects. Norseman82 put his finger on it- the dating pool is rife with the muck and mire of our society. Catholic author Emily Stimpson sums it up nicely in this article (see “tip” #1)

catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=639

I haven’t had time to read all of the previous comments, but I really do applaud the Bataar and Norseman82 for their insights into the situation.
 
Something else I should have added at the end of my post: I frequently pray for single Catholics and that the Church will begin responding to this problem. I encourage others to do the same.
 
chero23 said:
I like your list.

It’s important to have an education, a career, debt pay off, family oriented, God centered.
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And life skills in general are a really good thing to bring to the table, too.

A (very) traditional priest I know has a sermon that he gives every year or so particularly to the singles in his parish. I disagree with some of his thinking on marriage (NFP only in life-threatening situations, for example) but agree heartily with his thinking in this regard.

The sermon can be broken down as such:
  1. Discern your vocation with the help of a confessor and spiritual director. Spend time in adoration. God will tell you what He wants.
  2. If you’re unsure or if your vocation is marriage, then start preparing for the latter. Get a good job and career, but don’t go far into debt for it unless it’s a guarantee that you can pay that off pretty quickly. (Read: medical school.) Work on yourself spiritually–see above about adoration, confession, Mass. Focus on acquiring important skills, and not just sexually traditional ones, either. Guys, your wife will, at some point, not be able to clean or cook even if she is a stay at home wife and mom. Babies happen. The flu happens. You need to be able to pitch in, so learn to cook–not necessarily to a high level, but be able to do more than open a can of soup. Learn to clean; you don’t have to be Martha Stewart, but you do need to know how to throw some vomit-covered sheets in the washing machine and have them clean at the end. Learn to do basic household repairs. (Side note from UC: Youtube is an AWESOME “how to” source for seeing how to do basic repairs.) Gals, learn to cook and clean and budget and so on, but also learn how to do those basic repairs. Learn how to check basic stuff on a car: by all means, have your husband change the tire under ordinary circumstances, but if he’s thrown his back out and you need to take him to the doctor, or you’re bringing a sick kid to the pediatrician, you need to know how to do that.
This also helps in that you stay busy, rather than sitting at home, in your own head, thinking about how miserable or lonely you are. It builds self-esteem, too: “Dang, I’m really doing quite well at this life thing, and elderly, fragile Mrs. Smith sure appreciated my changing her tire for her, too.” The worst-case scenario if you focus on this other stuff, in addition, of course, to getting out there and being social to keep an eye out for a spouse, is that you’re a single person who has a good job, can cook and clean, can help friends or the elderly/disabled by doing simple repairs, is self-sufficient on a lot of things, has a decent balance in ye olde savings account and retirement fund, and so on. That’s a pretty good worst-case scenario, in my book! Not entirely incidentally, either, it makes you a more attractive prospect as a spouse.

Having learned all those things, whether your vocation is marriage, the single life, or the religious life, you’ll be that much more a contributing member of your particular society, be it in the family home, your circle of friends and acquaintances, or your religious community. (For example, I can’t really see a Mother Superior of any common sense objecting when Sister Constance says, “Mother, I could rewire that light switch rather than pay the handyman the $200 he wants for the job,” can you?)
 
UbiCaritas said:
And life skills in general are a really good thing to bring to the table, too.

A (very) traditional priest I know has a sermon that he gives every year or so particularly to the singles in his parish. I disagree with some of his thinking on marriage (NFP only in life-threatening situations, for example) but agree heartily with his thinking in this regard.

The sermon can be broken down as such:
  1. Discern your vocation with the help of a confessor and spiritual director. Spend time in adoration. God will tell you what He wants.
  2. If you’re unsure or if your vocation is marriage, then start preparing for the latter. Get a good job and career, but don’t go far into debt for it unless it’s a guarantee that you can pay that off pretty quickly. (Read: medical school.) Work on yourself spiritually–see above about adoration, confession, Mass. Focus on acquiring important skills, and not just sexually traditional ones, either. Guys, your wife will, at some point, not be able to clean or cook even if she is a stay at home wife and mom. Babies happen. The flu happens. You need to be able to pitch in, so learn to cook–not necessarily to a high level, but be able to do more than open a can of soup. Learn to clean; you don’t have to be Martha Stewart, but you do need to know how to throw some vomit-covered sheets in the washing machine and have them clean at the end. Learn to do basic household repairs. (Side note from UC: Youtube is an AWESOME “how to” source for seeing how to do basic repairs.) Gals, learn to cook and clean and budget and so on, but also learn how to do those basic repairs. Learn how to check basic stuff on a car: by all means, have your husband change the tire under ordinary circumstances, but if he’s thrown his back out and you need to take him to the doctor, or you’re bringing a sick kid to the pediatrician, you need to know how to do that.
This also helps in that you stay busy, rather than sitting at home, in your own head, thinking about how miserable or lonely you are. It builds self-esteem, too: “Dang, I’m really doing quite well at this life thing, and elderly, fragile Mrs. Smith sure appreciated my changing her tire for her, too.” The worst-case scenario if you focus on this other stuff, in addition, of course, to getting out there and being social to keep an eye out for a spouse, is that you’re a single person who has a good job, can cook and clean, can help friends or the elderly/disabled by doing simple repairs, is self-sufficient on a lot of things, has a decent balance in ye olde savings account and retirement fund, and so on. That’s a pretty good worst-case scenario, in my book! Not entirely incidentally, either, it makes you a more attractive prospect as a spouse.

Having learned all those things, whether your vocation is marriage, the single life, or the religious life, you’ll be that much more a contributing member of your particular society, be it in the family home, your circle of friends and acquaintances, or your religious community. (For example, I can’t really see a Mother Superior of any common sense objecting when Sister Constance says, “Mother, I could rewire that light switch rather than pay the handyman the $200 he wants for the job,” can you?)
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Yes.
 
Norseman82 said:
Let’s also not forget that the pool is kept at dangerously low levels by people who refuse to make themselves available.
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From what I read from you on a thread concerning the feminization of the Church, you equated femininity with cowardice and a lack of moral courage. You seem to have a very low view of femininity and women in general yet you want to get married. That is a red flag. Why would anyone want to get married to someone who hates the opposite sex?
 
Xantippe said:
That is a very good point. In fact, while there are plenty of episodes in the Bible where third parties facilitate a match, they’re pretty much always relatives or servants of the family. You can look high and low for an example of a priest doing matchmaking.
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As a practical matter, the world is shorter on relatives who have friends who can set you up with somebody. This is not a pastor’s job, but there is a lot more to the Church than just the priests. Networking among laypeople who are trusted is where eligible people have met other eligible people across the ages.

In the 1400s, family alliance was your security. Your parents used to be burdened with finding you a spouse the way they are now burdened with getting you an education or career preparation. Unmarried Catholics are now asking, “Great, it is better for me to marry in the Church, but where do I find other Catholics to marry?”

I think that is a fair question. I just don’t think laying this on the pastor is either fair or likely to lead anything. They have a good reason not to touch this with a ten-foot pole.

OK, so not the pastor. If not the pastor, then who? Not just who, but what would help and what does not help? What is a good idea and what is well-meant but a bad idea? Of the possible good ideas, which are thought by people looking for a spouse to actually be something that interests them? After all, if people looking for help won’t go for an idea, I think that makes it an untenable idea.
 
opera said:
Something else I should have added at the end of my post: I frequently pray for single Catholics and that the Church will begin responding to this problem. I encourage others to do the same.
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This is good place to start. Maybe if the Church offered a petition for single Catholics looking to marry every mass the laity would have their hearts moved to act.
 
pianistclare said:
Take ballroom dance.
Take a cooking class.
Volunteer at the food bank.
Read to children at the library.

In short, get out in GROUP settings.
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What’s funny is my mom has suggested some of those very things. Keep suggesting things, I really appreciate it. I’ll post some of my reasonings and you can see how strange an autistic mind is 🙂

I couldn’t do ballroom dancing. For me, dancing with another person (not performance dancing) is a non sexual physical means to show affection to that person. Unless the person I’m dancing with is someone I already care about, I wouldn’t want to dance with them or even touch them. I generally do not like being touched or touching another person unless that person is someone I already care about.

I’ve actually thought about taking a cooking class. I actually really enjoy cooking and consider myself very good at it. Therein lies the problem. If I’m already good at it, I don’t need a class. I can pretty much follow any recipe and know multiple techniques to do things so I’m not sure what kind of benefit I’d get out of a class. Other types of classes like making pastries I’ve thought about, however, my kitchen space is pretty small and I have very little counter room. Therefore, even if I learned how to make them, I don’t see myself doing it at home just because of lack of room. Paying money to learn a skill that I won’t be able to use just seems wrong.

I have volunteered at food banks a couple of times. Because I’m generally not a social person, it was not a good fit for me. I’ll be honest, I did it primarily as a reason to meet other people to be friends with. I’ve heard countless times, even on this message board that volunteering is a good way to meet people. Unfortunately, the few times I did it, I think I was the only volunteer under the age of 55 other than a couple of managers. It was generally an unpleasant experience.

I don’t see how reading to children at a library could help me meet and interact with other people my own age. However, it’s not something I’d considered before so that’s something I can look into anyway.
 
Bataar said:
What’s funny is my mom has suggested some of those very things. Keep suggesting things, I really appreciate it. I’ll post some of my reasonings and you can see how strange an autistic mind is 🙂

I couldn’t do ballroom dancing. For me, dancing with another person (not performance dancing) is a non sexual physical means to show affection to that person. Unless the person I’m dancing with is someone I already care about, I wouldn’t want to dance with them or even touch them. I generally do not like being touched or touching another person unless that person is someone I already care about.

I’ve actually thought about taking a cooking class. I actually really enjoy cooking and consider myself very good at it. Therein lies the problem. If I’m already good at it, I don’t need a class. I can pretty much follow any recipe and know multiple techniques to do things so I’m not sure what kind of benefit I’d get out of a class. Other types of classes like making pastries I’ve thought about, however, my kitchen space is pretty small and I have very little counter room. Therefore, even if I learned how to make them, I don’t see myself doing it at home just because of lack of room. Paying money to learn a skill that I won’t be able to use just seems wrong.

I have volunteered at food banks a couple of times. Because I’m generally not a social person, it was not a good fit for me. I’ll be honest, I did it primarily as a reason to meet other people to be friends with. I’ve heard countless times, even on this message board that volunteering is a good way to meet people. Unfortunately, the few times I did it, I think I was the only volunteer under the age of 55 other than a couple of managers. It was generally an unpleasant experience.

I don’t see how reading to children at a library could help me meet and interact with other people my own age. However, it’s not something I’d considered before so that’s something I can look into anyway.
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Do you know some autistic fellows like yourself who are married? I think you might want to ask them and their wives what sort of things are a good idea. They are going to understand your concerns better than we could and I think they’ll be able to give you answers that you are more likely to accept are answers that take your hopes and fears into account.

Realize that we all have hopes and fears when it comes to something so important as marriage. We all have our issues as human beings, not matter how “typical” our issues are. Pretty much all of us have gotten unrealistic advice and the vast majority of us have dismissed realistic advice as not being applicable to our “special situation.”

I’d think you’ll want to go to someone who can offer realistic advice that you’re the most likely to accept as being realistic, particularly since you do have issues that are difficult for those who don’t have the same issues to understand. Does that make sense? I’d love to help you, but I’d bet my last dollar I’m not the best person to give you specific advice.
 
XenaFan said:
This is good place to start. Maybe if the Church offered a petition for single Catholics looking to marry every mass the laity would have their hearts moved to act.
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I actually went to my parish rectory last night to have Masses said on Valentine’s Day weekend for the intention of “Catholic singles who are seeking Catholic spouses”. The Polish nun who processed my request mentioned that she knew of women in the parish who were also seeking Catholic husbands. So, to all the naysayers, it is not wrong or inappropriate to include the ordained and religious staff or your parish in your networking efforts.
 
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