Ideological fanatics divide the Christian community, pope says

  • Thread starter Thread starter JimR-OCDS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JimR-OCDS

Guest
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Christians who turn doctrine into ideology commit a grave mistake that upsets souls and divides the church, Pope Francis said.
Click to expand...
From the beginning, there have been people in the church who preach “without any mandate” and become “fanatics of things that aren’t clear,” the pope said May 19 in his homily during Mass at Domus Sanctae Marthae.
Click to expand...
“This is the problem: When the doctrine of the church, the one from the Gospel, the one inspired by the Holy Spirit — because Jesus said, ‘He will teach you and remind you of what I have taught!’ — when that doctrine becomes ideology. And this is the greatest mistake of these people,” he said.
Click to expand...
cnstopstories.com/2017/05/19/ideological-fanatics-divide-the-christian-community-pope-says/
Click to expand...
Pope Francis speaks as a person who has experience in Contemplation.

Jim
 
Definition of ideology: collection of doctrines or beliefs shared by members of a group.

This English translation is telling me that Pope Francis is warning us of turning doctrine into doctrine as being a grave mistake. 🤷

I guess we should just leave it the priests to instruct us. The laity need to butt out it seems. Too much confusion and I guess we’re not all that good at it.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
Definition of ideology: collection of doctrines or beliefs shared by members of a group.

This English translation is telling me that Pope Francis is warning us of turning doctrine into doctrine as being a grave mistake. 🤷

I guess we should just leave it the priests to instruct us. The laity need to butt out it seems. Too much confusion and I guess we’re not all that good at it.
Click to expand...
Agree. Must be a poor translation. I don’t get it.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
Definition of ideology: collection of doctrines or beliefs shared by members of a group.

This English translation is telling me that Pope Francis is warning us of turning doctrine into doctrine as being a grave mistake. 🤷

I guess we should just leave it the priests to instruct us. The laity need to butt out it seems. Too much confusion and I guess we’re not all that good at it.
Click to expand...
This is probably closer to what he is talking about:

ideology - A system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

Church doctrine is not a political or economic theory or policy. Sure it can influence an ideology but it’s not an ideology in itself and shouldn’t be treated as such. It’s not too confusing. Ask yourself if you do what he is saying. If you do this perhaps you should listen, if not then maybe he isn’t talking to you.
 
So what is dogma?

I honestly don’t know what he is talking about.
 
Regarding the early consideration of Gentiles in the church I think it was a fair question and I am sure people had valid arguments on both sides. I think it was quite understandable for faithful Jews to hesitate in a drastic change of culture that was identified with Jewish Scriptures.

Many of course remained traditionally Jewish and I think we have to be charitable in accepting many stayed true to what they believed was correct. Of course most of us here on CAF are Christians without a Jewish background. I can accept the Church ruling on this while still seeing those who disagreed as honourable people.

Yes it divided people but those on the other side were not fanatics and it was the Christians who changed the status quo.
For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’…
Click to expand...
Jesus. Matthew 10:35-36.

As far as drawing parallels with people here today, the question again is, who is the pope talking about, if anyone? :confused:
 
My post above was referring to the article
The initial debate about how to deal with the gentiles, the pope said, was between “the group of the apostles who wanted to discuss the problem and the others who go and create problems.”
“They divide, they divide the church, they say that what the apostles preach is not what Jesus said, that it isn’t the truth,” he explained.
Those who sow discord and “divide the Christian community,” the pope said, do so because their “hearts are closed to the work of the Holy Spirit.”
These individuals, he added, “weren’t believers, they were ideologues.”
Pope Francis said the exhortation sent to the gentiles by Peter and the other apostles encourages all Christians to be unafraid before “the opinions of the ideologues of doctrine.”
Click to expand...
 
Ideology is a system of ideas.

Doctrine is a system of formal beliefs that one must accept.

For instance, ideology comes into play when my grandmother had her opinions about modern life. It sounded like doctrine but wasn’t.

They were ideas formulated over the years when things were very different. She used to say that it was a disgrace the way women wear pants and she couldn’t understand why they had to wear make-up. She would say they were made up like “circus horses.”

Also an older nun I used to have in 7th grade did not believe that girls should play baseball or any other “boy sports.” She told that old saw about wearing patent leather shoes, too. She took covering your head in church very seriously since I once wore a hat with an open crown where my hair showed through. She made me put a handkerchief in the open part of the hat.
 
If we are to live the Gospel, and be a holy people we Must allow our dogma to become ideology.
Dogma is the system, the faith, ideology is living the faith.
🤷

It’s “dogma” to believe in care for the poor, ideology is putting that into practice through a sorties of consistent thoughts and actions…
 
I’m fairly certian the pope means we shouldn’t confuse certian ideals (political affiliation, views on fashion, music, etc.) with religious doctrine.
 
xNoOnex said:
I’m fairly certian the pope means we shouldn’t confuse certian ideals (political affiliation, views on fashion, music, etc.) with religious doctrine.
Click to expand...
“What he really meant”
“Im fairly certain”
“I think he means”
“What he was trying to say”

These are just ways we bend words to fit our IDEOLOGY…
 
It’s not that complicated. Pope Francis starts out mentioning people who have no authority to teach doctrine, as noted in the gospel reading. But, said people’s ideology prompts them to go around “correcting” others, but they have no authority to do so.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
It’s not that complicated. Pope Francis starts out mentioning people who have no authority to teach doctrine, as noted in the gospel reading. But, said people’s ideology prompts them to go around “correcting” others, but they have no authority to do so.
Click to expand...
I think that was more the gist of what I gathered from the article:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-church-teaching-helps-us-avoid-harm-of-ideology-24115/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=gplus

"Pope Francis further warned against divisive elements in the Church.

"But there were always people who without any commission go out to disturb the Christian community with speeches that upset souls: ‘Eh, no, someone who says that is a heretic, you can’t say this, or that; this is the doctrine of the Church,’” he said.

“And they are fanatics of things that are not clear, like those fanatics who go there sowing weeds in order to divide the Christian community.”

He said their “great error” results from when Church doctrine, which comes from the gospel and is inspired by the Holy Spirit, “becomes an ideology.”
 
Could certainly be talking about the liberal agenda that places more importance on their political ideology than on the teachings of Jesus.
 
Those who sow discord and “divide the Christian community,” the pope said, do so because their “hearts are closed to the work of the Holy Spirit.”

"Doctrine, he said, unites the Christian community because it is “always open, always free” while “ideology divides.”

These to sentences make sense to me. Ideology is rigid, black and white, us vs them, I’m right, you are wrong. Doctrine is always open to deeper understanding and mutual reflection.
 
Arizona_Fat_Gir said:
Ideology is a system of ideas.

Doctrine is a system of formal beliefs that one must accept.

For instance, ideology comes into play when my grandmother had her opinions about modern life. It sounded like doctrine but wasn’t.
Click to expand...
Well it is interesting that he speaks about this right after speaking out against use of embryonic stem cells which is one of the five Catholic non negotiables.

The liberal agenda idea that religious beliefs need to change or conform to the secular world’s ideology where indeed the teachings of Jesus if acknowledged at all are indeed negotiable.
 
Funny how some react as if the Pope’s message is about them. 🙂

I think it strikes a nerve with everyone, without regard to political ideology.

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top