Ideological fanatics divide the Christian community, pope says

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JimR-OCDS said:
…Pope Benedict wrote the same in effect when he wrote that Jesus death and resurrection wasn’t to appease God. God so loved the world that He sent his only Son. God’s love preceded the birth of Jesus Christ.

Jim
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One thought that has flitted thru my mind is that Jesus’s death and resurrection may have been to finally get our attention (as we tend to be autistic re God). 🙂
 
rock022 said:
Oh, man! Reading the comments I thought this was very complicated. So I read the article and what the Pope said. It was very clear. Here is how it started:

“Pope Francis warned that ideologues sow confusion and division in the Church in the name of false clarity, rather than relying on the Pope, the bishops, and Church councils inspired by the Holy Spirit.”

If you guys have been paying attention, the Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia, has caused quite a stir in the church precisely because people with no authority have been dividing the people. The Bishops have questions about it at it is being addressed, but this things take time.

This is not only about Amoris Laetitia, but also with many other issues, and can be brought down to the level of our own parish. People that water down the Gospel to suit their agenda. You know, the: “No one will go to hell, everyone will be saved” mentality. And the Gender Theory, which the Pope speaks against so much. Those are just examples.
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Yes the liberal mentality of making the Pope in their image…the Pope is on MY side…see the Pope agrees with ME. Also the liberal idea of the seamless garment. That thing is getting stretched pretty thin with all the political agendas being heaped on it that liberals convince themselves are equal to the evil of abortion. Of course being pro life is not just about abortion but includes the five Catholic non negotiables all of which are being attacked by the political ideology of the Democratic party. So they create division that Pope Francis warned against and come up with stuff like the ‘new pro life movement’ that does harm to the fight against evil.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
…I read an interesting meditation today from Fr Richard Rohr, who isn’t well liked at CAF…
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That actually recommends him to me. What are his basic ideas and how are CAFers against them?

It seems to me Fr. Rohr could be a good example of not being an ideological fanatic. 🙂
 
lynnvinc said:
That actually recommends him to me. What are his basic ideas and how are CAFers against them?

It seems to me Fr. Rohr could be a good example of not being an ideological fanatic. 🙂
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You can sign up to receive his daily emails [/URL

Standby and watch the reactions.

Jim](https://cac.org/)
 
Another excellent article that speaks to how the fanatical ideology of the left causes division within Christ’s Church…

ncregister.com/blog/cgress/are-we-witnessing-the-battle-between-an-antimary-and-an-antichrist
In case we needed further evidence of how entrenched the antimary is, the recent news cycle features Planned Parenthood abortionists laughing about dismembering babies while Glamour Magazine gives instructions for DIY abortion pills that pair nicely with Chardonnay. (Okay, they didn’t add the wine, but it isn’t a stretch). Truly our zeitgeist is captivated (or captured) with distinctive antimary markings. This unprecedented movement of destruction, where a culture is led by female vice, not male brute force, has bled into every area of our culture — with no man, women, child (or fetus) left untouched.
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PseuTonym said:
I recommend two books:

The Totalitarian Temptation Paperback
by Jean Francois Revel (Author), David Hapgood (Translator)

The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements
by Eric Hoffer
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Can you tell evwhat they are about before I look into purchasing them? Or was it just a way to try to make a point?
 
Havard said:
I don’t have an opinion of him, but your comments prompted me to look him up.

ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=290656

Jan Wakelin used to be the director of Catholic Answers radio, so I imagine she checked her facts. Is this your understanding, that Fr. Rohr promotes the enneagram?
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That would be a poor source for information on Fr Rohr.

Jan Wakelin uses a Vatican document on New Age, which has nothing to do with Fr Rohr

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
That would be a poor source for information on Fr Rohr.

Jan Wakelin uses a Vatican document on New Age, which has nothing to do with Fr Rohr

Jim
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I don’t understand your reservation. :confused: Jan Wakelin just made one point about him, which is that he promotes the enneagram through his books and tapes. Looking at his organization’s website, it appears he does.

Is it your understanding that he doesn’t promote the enneagram?
 
lynnvinc said:
That actually recommends him to me. What are his basic ideas and how are CAFers against them?

It seems to me Fr. Rohr could be a good example of not being an ideological fanatic. 🙂
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Fr. Richard Rohr believes that homosexual relationships can be morally licit. So that’s another problem besides the enneagram.
 
Havard said:
I don’t understand your reservation. :confused: Jan Wakelin just made one point about him, which is that he promotes the enneagram through his books and tapes. Looking at his organization’s website, it appears he does.

Is it your understanding that he doesn’t promote the enneagram?
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There is nothing wrong with use of the enneagram, if properly used as Fr Rohr did.

He doesn’t use it as much as Wakelin states.

Either way, it’s not much different than using Myers Briggs Personality Types.

As Fr Rohr says, they’re not absolutes, just a guide to understanding our own human behaviors.

Self-knowledge is very much part of the spiritual life. It’s how we come to understand the who we are, the person God had in mind when he created you.

Jim
 
irenaeus1 said:
Fr. Richard Rohr believes that homosexual relationships can be morally licit. So that’s another problem besides the enneagram.
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Not really.

Fr Rohr understands that homosexuals have existed as long as there have been human beings, but that we must also understand that they are no less loved by God than anyone else.

God is not a God of conditional love, but unconditional love.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
There is nothing wrong with use of the enneagram, if properly used as Fr Rohr did.

He doesn’t use it as much as Wakelin states.

Either way, it’s not much different than using Myers Briggs Personality Types.

As Fr Rohr says, they’re not absolutes, just a guide to understanding our own human behaviors.

Self-knowledge is very much part of the spiritual life. It’s how we come to understand the who we are, the person God had in mind when he created you.

Jim
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Then why not just use a personality schema that is actually accepted by psychologists, like the Five Factor Model? Why promote one with New Age associations, that’s considered subjective pseudoscience?

Also, in Googling Fr. Rohr, there’s a story floating around that he and another priest presided over a “commitment ceremony” for a lesbian couple, for which he was reprimanded by the then-ordinary. Do you know anything about this? I don’t want to besmirch the guy, but I do believe it would be important info if people are looking to him for spiritual advice.
 
Havard
Then why not just use a personality schema that is actually accepted by psychologists, like the Five Factor Model? Why promote one with New Age associations, that’s considered subjective pseudoscience?
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The enneagram and Myers Briggs predates the New Age movement.

Fr Rohr probably used it because he has the most knowledge about it. Anyway, when he presented it in his daily meditations, I found it more complex than Myers Briggs.
Also, in Googling Fr. Rohr, there’s a story floating around that he and another priest presided over a “commitment ceremony” for a lesbian couple, for which he was reprimanded by the then-ordinary. Do you know anything about this? I don’t want to besmirch the guy, but I do believe it would be important info if people are looking to him for spiritual advice.
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I won’t get into hearsay stories, especially in this forum.

I mentioned a few posts ago in what he had given in his daily meditation, here it is again,

“Franciscans believe that Jesus did not come to change the mind of God about humanity. It didn’t need changing: God has organically, inherently loved what God created from the moment God created. Jesus came to change the mind of humanity about God…”

Don’t reject truth just because you have a problem with the messenger.

After all, we don’t reject the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution because Jefferson was a slave owner.

Jim
 
Bataar said:
A bigger threat than “ideological fanatics” are heretical leaders.
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Perhaps one leads to another. If one places more importance on their liberal political ideology which is at odds with the five Catholic non negotiable life issues then it could certainly lead to error.
 
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