If a husband refuses to end sexual relations with his wife by ejaculating inside of her is this a sin?

[Seatuck]

Here is the link if you care to read it for yourself…quite lengthy in the summarized version, very dry in my opinion.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

I didn’t realize the whole thing was online. Thanks for the link.

 

[gardenswithkids]

… Are there also any scriptural references that refer to this question at all?

As already given, scripture on this found in Genesis 38–the story of Onan and Tamara. Note that in the scripture makes it clear that what Onan DID displeased God, not just what was in Onan’s heart as some mistakenly claim. Also note that this was Onan’s sin, *not *Tamar’s sin. In that particular scripture story, Tamar was sinned against; she was not a willing participant in Onan’s contraceptive act. In her teachings on human sexuality, the Church recognizes that sometimes one party is sinned against by the other spouse who forces contraception or contraceptive acts into the relationship.

 

[NonCatholic]

Your comment is not laughable but it is sad and a bit ignorant.I’m sure it’s not your fault you are a product of your environment after all. If you had a mental illness would only seek out help from a doctor with a mental illness? Or would you expect that doctors are capable of studying such illnesses and treating them? If you get something horrible like cancer better make sure your doctor has it too.

You really don’t know what a persons sexual history is and you shouldn’ t make a judgement. Go read Love and Responsibility and you will see the man understood very well what it marital love was all about. The man didn’t live in a bubble. Thirdly , don’t underestimate the ability of my God to reveal something to my Pople to teach me about.
Enough said.

Please read post #19…my apologies to all.

 

[Monica37]

As already given, scripture on this found in Genesis 38–the story of Onan and Tamara. Note that in the scripture makes it clear that what Onan DID displeased God, not just what was in Onan’s heart as some mistakenly claim. Also note that this was Onan’s sin, *not *

Tamar’s sin. In that particular scripture story, Tamar was sinned against; she was not a willing participant in Onan’s contraceptive act. In her teachings on human sexuality, the Church recognizes that sometimes one party is sinned against by the other spouse who forces contraception or contraceptive acts into the relationship.]

Thanks for this. My husband is not Catholic and we have issues with this. He adamately does not want any more children and I adamately do not want to use ABC. I was wondering where I stood on this. He knows I am open to life and I know he is not. I try to use NFP but I’m always afraid he will get really angry if I make a mistake in my “planning” and get pregnant. It makes for a very stressful sex life (other issues are in play as well so not just birth control makes it stressful).

 

[guanophore]

That’s not exactly the context. The intent of the heart was evil before God, the act of spilling the seed was the means to dishonor his brother and thus God. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Someone else made the comment that contraception was equivalent to murder (sixth commandment), but preventing a life from forming is much different than taking one that actually exists.

Just 2 cents worth on an old post…now I feel like I’m talking to myself.

You are absolutely correct about the Onan passage, NC, but it does relate to this topic, because God’s commandment for our sexuality is to “be fruitful and multiply”. Onan refused to be fruitful because he did not want to give his brothers wife a child that would inherit the brothers part, which would be a double portion (he was the eldest).

So, to the extent that he withdrew out of greed and disobedience, and was not open to life, it is relevant. Most people contracept out of selfish motives.

I’m sorry, but that is laughable…my stomach is hurting from this. Marital relations coming from a man who hasn’t a clue about marriage. Lighten up folks, God made us one flesh for many reasons including “pure pleasure”…lighten up and enjoy each other a bit.

Once you get more educated, NC, you may be laughing out of the other side of your face! You will find few writings that are as profound as Theology of the Body. It would be very small minded to think that an unmarried person cannot understand marriage. That would also invalidate everything that Jesus and Paul taught about marriage.

The sexual relation is a physical and temporal manifestation of an eternal spiritual reality. Once you understand this, you will realize that a person who has clarity about the spiritual reality is well suited to speak about human sexuality.

Here is the link if you care to read it for yourself…quite lengthy in the summarized version, very dry in my opinion.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

Well, that makes sense, since you seem to be focused on the pleasure of sex, rather than the transcendent aspects of it.

When you are ready to grow into it, you will discover the richness.

 

[NonCatholic]

You are absolutely correct about the Onan passage, NC, but it does relate to this topic, because God’s commandment for our sexuality is to “be fruitful and multiply”. Onan refused to be fruitful because he did not want to give his brothers wife a child that would inherit the brothers part, which would be a double portion (he was the eldest).

So, to the extent that he withdrew out of greed and disobedience, and was not open to life, it is relevant. Most people contracept out of selfish motives.

Once you get more educated, NC, you may be laughing out of the other side of your face! You will find few writings that are as profound as Theology of the Body. It would be very small minded to think that an unmarried person cannot understand marriage. That would also invalidate everything that Jesus and Paul taught about marriage.

The sexual relation is a physical and temporal manifestation of an eternal spiritual reality. Once you understand this, you will realize that a person who has clarity about the spiritual reality is well suited to speak about human sexuality.

Well, that makes sense, since you seem to be focused on the pleasure of sex, rather than the transcendent aspects of it.

When you are ready to grow into it, you will discover the richness.

Doesn’t anyone ever read the apology part? Anyway, be fruitful and multiply…yeah we needed a few human beings out there at the time, now we have the opposite problem. Anyway, I’ve been blessed with some great children, both with special needs, so it has been extra challenging, but also an extra blessing.

By the way, what’s the difference between using the NFS??? method, the goal is the same, but the stress and guilt I see in this forum is not something God wants. He does expect us to enjoy the relational part; it is a blessing. So lighten up and enjoy your partners and stay protected.

 

[Monica37]

.

Could you provide a link to data that supports what I think you are implying, i.e. overpopulation?

Thanks!

I also assume you are refering to my post about stress. I didn’t want to go into too much detail, but the stress comes not from my being open to children but from my husband’s selfish need to have stuff over children. He wants money more than he wants children, as I said in my post there are other issues.

 

[guanophore]

Doesn’t anyone ever read the apology part?

Yes, thank you.

By the way, what’s the difference between using the NFS??? method, the goal is the same,

No, usually it is not. Usually people use birth control because they are centered on pleasuring themselves and each other, and they have no consideration for what God may want to do between them.

However, the main difference with NFP is that it is working WITH what God has naturally given us.

but the stress and guilt I see in this forum is not something God wants. He does expect us to enjoy the relational part; it is a blessing.

I agree. I think that people can walk with God, and have peace and pleasure in marriage.

So lighten up and enjoy your partners and stay protected.

This statement certainly reflects well the secular attitude toward the marital relation.

One must inquire, “protect” from what"? Whatever God might desire to do?

This is not an open, free, life giving act if it is shielding the partners from one anothers potential for life.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Doesn’t anyone ever read the apology part?

Yes. Apology accepted. To repeat for those who missed it you wrote: “I do apologize, I should have kept that to myself…part of that insensitivity as a human…sorry.”

…Anyway, be fruitful and multiply…yeah we needed a few human beings out there at the time, now we have the opposite problem. … So lighten up and enjoy your partners and stay protected.

For someone who asks for scripture references often, you quickly dismiss what God said to Adam and what He repeated to Noah. Scripture does NOT say, “Go forth and stay protected.” Secular culture tells us that. God and Scripture tells us a couple of times, “Be fruitful and multiply.”

…By the way, what’s the difference between using the NFS??? method, the goal is the same, but the stress and guilt I see in this forum is not something God wants. He does expect us to enjoy the relational part; it is a blessing. So lighten up and enjoy your partners and stay protected.

Now you’re bringing up several points different from the original post. I agree that God doesn’t want the stress and guilt. He wants trust and obedience. When people disobey God or don’t trust Him, it causes difficulty.

The title of this thread is “If a husband refuses to end sexual relations with his wife…” Assume for a moment that the wife, like Tamar in the Genesis story,* does not enjoy it* when her partner finishes in Onan’s manner. In fact, some people don’t enjoy any form of contraception at all. Some people enjoy trusting and involving God with our family planning. Many people ask a lot of questions on this forum because they want to learn better how to trust God with their entire lives, sex life included.

 

[NonCatholic]

Yes. Apology accepted. To repeat for those who missed it you wrote: “I do apologize, I should have kept that to myself…part of that insensitivity as a human…sorry.”

For someone who asks for scripture references often, you quickly dismiss what God said to Adam and what He repeated to Noah. Scripture does NOT say, “Go forth and stay protected.”

He says be “fruitful and multiply”; he doesn’t give a number does He? We have multiplied; I do not dismiss what God says, but when I see posts where the marriage and mother are in jeopardy because of something taught that is not in the Word of God it makes me sad first, then sick. I have seen 2 times in the short time I have been here…it is not what God intended. Again, what is the difference if you decide to use contraception on any manner, NFS or other? Not murder, as in the “morning after pill” or that other devilish pill that came from Europe. Nevertheless, nothing in Scripture prohibits married couples from practicing birth control, either for a limited time to delay childbearing, or permanently when they have borne children and determine that their family is complete.

Psalm 139:13-16 clearly indicates fetal life is human life. Any form of birth control that destroys the fetus or fertilized ovum rather than preventing conception is therefore wrong.

Some people enjoy trusting God with our family planning.

How many children do you have? Have you ever avoided relations with your spouse in order to prevent the possibility of having a child in the back of you mind? Do you plan to keep having children until you are unable to conceive? If you say no to any of these, then you violate your interpretation of “be fruitful and multiply”.

Final note: birth control is biblically permissible. At the same time, couples should not practice birth control if it violates their consciences (Romans 14:23)–not because birth control is inherently sinful, but because it is wrong to violate the conscience. The answer to a wrongly informed conscience is not to violate it, but rather to correct and rightly inform one’s conscience with biblical truth.

 

[Corki]

Psalm 139:13-16 clearly indicates fetal life is human life. Any form of birth control that destroys the fetus or fertilized ovum rather than preventing conception is therefore wrong.

Final note: birth control is biblically permissible. At the same time, couples should not practice birth control if it violates their consciences (Romans 14:23)–not because birth control is inherently sinful, but because it is wrong to violate the conscience. The answer to a wrongly informed conscience is not to violate it, but rather to correct and rightly inform one’s conscience with biblical truth.

Birth control (limiting the size of ones family) is biblically permissable. Artificial contraception is not.

Catholic Church teaching is not to “inform” one’s conscience but rather to rightly form one’s conscience. This involves attention to both Scripture and Church teaching.

 

[guanophore]

I do not dismiss what God says, but when I see posts where the marriage and mother are in jeopardy because of something taught that is not in the Word of God it makes me sad first, then sick.

The mother and the marriage are not in jeapardy becuause of what the Church teaches. The reproductive problems we have come from, by and large, living in a fallen world.

I have seen 2 times in the short time I have been here…it is not what God intended.

And how do you determine “what God intended”?

Again, what is the difference if you decide to use contraception on any manner, NFS or other?

Because NFP is not “contraception”. It is not “against” conception, or attempting to thwart God’s plan for the marital embrace.

Not murder, as in the “morning after pill” or that other devilish pill that came from Europe.

It is good to know that you realize this form of contraception does kill the embryo, and that you acknowledge that this is a human life.

Sadly, the vast majority of artificial birth controls function similarly.

Nevertheless, nothing in Scripture prohibits married couples from practicing birth control, either for a limited time to delay childbearing, or permanently when they have borne children and determine that their family is complete.

The very notion of “birth control” implies that humans have taken into their own purview that which belongs to God.

Who are we to determing that “the family is complete”? How can we know what God has in mind? What we do know is that He is the one who governs the giving and withholding of children. The human desire to usurp this is part of the same hubris that was present in the Garden of Eden. Taking upon ourselves the standard of what is right and wrong.

Psalm 139:13-16 clearly indicates fetal life is human life. Any form of birth control that destroys the fetus or fertilized ovum rather than preventing conception is therefore wrong.

It is very Catholic of you to say that!

How many children do you have? Have you ever avoided relations with your spouse in order to prevent the possibility of having a child in the back of you mind?

I am sure this is a common experience, but really, it should be in the FRONT of the mind,and the discussion. This is a decision that needs to be made consciously with prayer together.

Do you plan to keep having children until you are unable to conceive? If you say no to any of these, then you violate your interpretation of “be fruitful and multiply”.

Why is your interpretation of what this means more valid than the interpretation from the authority that Jesus appointed?

Final note: birth control is biblically permissible. At the same time, couples should not practice birth control if it violates their consciences (Romans 14:23)–not because birth control is inherently sinful, but because it is wrong to violate the conscience. The answer to a wrongly informed conscience is not to violate it, but rather to correct and rightly inform one’s conscience with biblical truth.

I can see your point, however, birth control is intrinsicly wrong, and a properly informed conscience is one that acts in concert with the teachings of Jesus.

I also agree that the answer to a wrongly informed conscience is to correct and rightly inform it.

however, the Bible does not “teach” itself. Jesus gave the office of “teacher” to the Church, because teaching requires judgement, insight, discernment and accountability. These are qualities not contained in the Holy Writings, profitable as they are for training in righteousness.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Thanks for this. My husband is not Catholic and we have issues with this. He adamately does not want any more children and I adamately do not want to use ABC. I was wondering where I stood on this. He knows I am open to life and I know he is not. I try to use NFP but I’m always afraid he will get really angry if I make a mistake in my “planning” and get pregnant. It makes for a very stressful sex life (other issues are in play as well so not just birth control makes it stressful).

Hi Monica–I’m sorry that you are struggling with this. I’m glad if anything I wrote eased your burden. It may help to discretely discuss the situation with a good confessor. Prayers for you and your husband.

 

[NonCatholic]

Birth control (limiting the size of ones family) is biblically permissable. Artificial contraception is not.

Catholic Church teaching is not to “inform” one’s conscience but rather to rightly form one’s conscience. This involves attention to both Scripture and Church teaching.

You can get contraception that are all natural; no artificial ingredients and are very effective.

 

[NonCatholic]

Hi Monica–I’m sorry that you are struggling with this. I’m glad if anything I wrote eased your burden. It may help to discretely discuss the situation with a good confessor. Prayers for you and your husband.

This is exactly one of the things I was speaking of…breaks my heart and angers me toward the Catholic teaching.

 

[NonCatholic]

Who are we to determining that “the family is complete”?

Well my wife and I decided we were not able to handle anymore responsibility concerning the raising of the children and the financial aspect and we are very content with the children God has blessed us with.

 

[guanophore]

You can get contraception that are all natural; no artificial ingredients and are very effective.

I think encouraging activity that the Catholic Church considers gravely sinful may get you banned from this site.

This is exactly one of the things I was speaking of…breaks my heart and angers me toward the Catholic teaching.

It makes you angry that Catholics would be pray for others to ease their pain, and encourage them to seek spiritual counsel?

Well my wife and I decided we were not able to handle anymore responsibility concerning the raising of the children and the financial aspect and we are very content with the children God has blessed us with.

From a Catholic perspective, you and your wife have basically relied upon yourselves, rather than God to provide for you. Instead of receiving any other children that God may wish to bless to you, you are refusing, because you cannot trust that, if He were to send you more, He would be able to provide.

However, I am very gratified to know that you have received the ones He gave you, and though they are disabled, you accepted them as His gifts.

 

[Corki]

You can get contraception that are all natural; no artificial ingredients and are very effective.

You know very well that artificial contraception refers to artificially blocking conception not blocking conception with artificial ingredients. :tsktsk:

But nice try.

 

[Michael_Francis]

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