If a modern Marian apparition miracle occurred, would people listen to her?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dbranch
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
People often think we are somehow smarter than people in the middle ages or in the ancient world. We really aren’t. The fact that we have all this amazing technology around us doesn’t mean we made any real progress in wisdom.
If Mary would appear on October 13th some would believe, some wouldn’t.

Luke 16:29:
“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets, let them listen to them.’”

Not all people believed Moses, not all believed Jesus, not all would believe Mary.
 
Two bishops in succession did not approve. And, for all the talk there was about JP II approving, when it was time to replace the first bishop (he had retired, upon reaching the mandatory age), the Pope could have appointed whomever he wanted, within reason. But his choice was the present bishop, who, if anything, is more opposed to the phenomena than his predecessor.

Although Archbishop Hozer now allows pilgrimages, sponsored by churches, he, and Pope Francis have said, repeatedly, that he is there, in Medj, for pastoral reasons only. He’s not investigating the apparitions. Nor, does it seem, is anyone else, at the moment.

When asked, the Vatican goes back to the 1991 'Zadar Declaration '. Which says that it cannot be certain that anything supernatural happened there. All Pope Francis, and future popes have to do, to keep up the current, negative, decision, is say nothing. The pilgrimages that are now allowed are those of prayer. They don’t (or shouldn’t) assume the visions are real.
 
JimG said:
think maybe we are like the people of Sodom, ignoring God’s laws and happily content with our lives until it is too late.
Click to expand...
God does not have a law to believe in private revelations.
 
That is correct. And yet, if any private revelations are real, He obviously allows them.
 
Yet the church is quite clear: Everything we need to be saved, was revealed before the death of the last apostle. It seems that most private revelations are specific to a certain time, or a certain person. Most were completed before they could reach the local bishop! I don’t think there is much value in visiting revelation sites. What God wants us to know is revealed in the Bible and early tradition. Even the rosary is part of a private revelation!
 
If a modern Marian apparition miracle occurred, would people listen to her?

Well, some amazing things happened at Fatima and Lourdes. Have we listened to her? Look at us now. The Church is divided more now than at any time in recent history. Mary remains a source of controversy, even among Catholics! Some even going so far as to say that saying the Hail Mary bothers them, as was stated here on a recent thread. My goodness, if the miracle of the sun at Fatima doesn’t get people’s attention and cause people to listen, what more could she do???
 
Last edited:
JimG said:
That is correct. And yet, if any private revelations are real, He obviously allows them.
Click to expand...
The only real that matters is “useful for salvation”.

When people are very familiar with public revelation, which was often the case in the 1950s in the USA, then sure, invite those people to approved private revelations.

Even today, if a home schooling mom has finished an intense study of the Catechism, and there are a few weeks left in the year, then let’s look at Fatima.

Even if Mary was appearing in your city this week, the total content of what she could say would not add any truth to the Catechism, or the Mass, though it might be the encouragement someone needs.
 
Last edited:
commenter said:
Even today, if a home schooling mom has finished an intense study of the Catechism, and there are a few weeks left in the year, then let’s look at Fatima.
Click to expand...
A homeschooling parent does very well to teach children about Fatima.

At my son’s former Catholic school, which was otherwise not known for its insistence upon traditional, orthodox Catholic doctrine, the teacher showed the children the movie “The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima”. I was very pleased when my son came home and told me they’d watched this movie.

en.wikipedia.org

The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
clclnn said:
I see a great resistance by some to accept the fact that God, not Mary, God sends Mary to give us a message that is useful for us. To say otherwise is to speak against what the Church has found ‘worthy of belief.’
Click to expand...
Yes. Mary does not act without the approval of her Son. Private revelations are allowed by God not because they add to the deposit of Faith, but because they may be useful to those who hear them and those who accept the judgment of the Church that they are not contrary to the Faith.

I think that what people really object to about recent private revelations are the warnings that Mary gives about disaster to come if we do not repent, pray, and sacrifice for sin. People just don’t want to hear it, even it is intended to help them.
 
clclnn said:
I see a great resistance by some to accept the fact that God, not Mary, God sends Mary to give us a message that is useful for us. To say otherwise is to speak against what the Church has found ‘worthy of belief.’
Click to expand...
“Worthy of belief” is noteworthy. It is however a lower standard than all of public revelation.
 
Many don’t listen to what Mary has said from previous apparitions so it’s a given they would not listen now. How many times on here when you bring up a warning from the Blessed Mother, an immediate response is something akin to ‘well we don’t have to listen to her, so there’. lol
 
Last edited:
clclnn said:
How many people were at Fatima? It is well recorded. This is not private like one individual in his home. And Mary’s message was meant for all the faithful not just those that were there. And her message was approved by God, not just the Church.
Click to expand...
According to the Church, Fatima is a private revelation. It is approved, which means it doesn’t contradict public revelation, but there’s no question which is far more important.
The number of witnesses is not relevant. Some Epistles were written by St Paul, alone in a cell. They carry more weight than all approved private revelation combined.

I visit the nearby Fatima shrine, and have a devotion to OLF.
 
I don’t know if it was brought up on this thread, but since it has been on others, and today is Oct. 12…

Several ‘apparition sites’, notably Bayside in New York, and Holy Love, in Ohio, have been condemned by the church. In fact, the local bishop has forbidden the sacraments to be dispensed at the ‘Holy Love’ shrine. We must be careful!

And ‘approval’ does not mean that anything said at approved sites becomes church doctrine. Remember, everything necessary for the salvation of our souls was revealed before the death of the last apostle…which happened about 120 AD.

Nowhere in the Bible are we told to wait for a ‘last warning’ . If we are believing as we have learned, and acting on those beliefs, we are doing fine.
 
Last edited:
Legend said:
And ‘approval’ does not mean that anything said at approved sites becomes church doctrine. Remember, everything necessary for the salvation of our souls was revealed before the death of the last apostle…which happened about 20 AD.
Click to expand...
I think you must have mistyped that date!
 
Think of private revelation as something like church music. A Mass is certainly “complete” without it. But music properly done can sometimes touch the heart of some of the people present, so their minds are opened to the message.

Many good people don’t care for this or that hymn, or this or that private revelation. But if the next person benefits, that’s fine. Sometimes music can be presented in a way that distracts from the Mass or prayer service. You notice it too much.

Sometimes an individual may focus excessively on this or that musician or hymn, get their doctrine from that. The same can be true with private revelations. (Fatima has been hurt more by a few of its fanatic friends than by its enemies).

Private revelation (like music) works best when you don’t notice it. It turns your heart to act on public revelation in acts of prayer, corporal and spiritual works of Mercy. Private revelation, like an attention seeking organist, works bad when it gets prominent.
 
Last edited:
How many looked into the eyes of God in Christ and turned away? We are no different - if anything our culture is even worse.
 
@paperwight and @Dan_Defender…

Mistake corrected! (for anyone who didn’t notice or comment-I meant to say that the last apostle died about 120 AD, not 20 AD! Thanks to those who pointed it out!

Yes, I understand…one approved apparition may add greatly to someone’s faith, while another, just-as-approved one, may leave one cold…

But then, that may be all right, as well. For many such apparitions are relevant for a short time, or for a specific person/group/family. That’s why, it seems, the church has the two negative criteria for apparitions-constant de non and non constant. One states that the apparition is definitely false, while the other says that there is not enough evidence to declare anything pertaining to said vision as supernatural.

There was, on these forums, a thread titled, not sure of the exact wording, ‘Has The BVM ever appeared to you?’ I believe it was allowed by the mods, because it would, most likely contain ‘visions’ like this…ones that happened to a person at a time of need, sorrow, or weakening faith. In fact, most of the stories posted there were about a person, at such a time, and most likely, the vision had ceased before the person answered!

So, tomorrow is the day, predicted by the OP…

Again, thanks for correcting me on my mistake. I wouldn’t have been able to completely live it down, if it had stayed up until after the thread had closed!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top