If a person dies and he did not repent is there any way he can go to heaven?

[jcrichton]

I think there is a difference between using good judgment (determining the rightness or wrongness of our choices and others choices) and judging someone regarding where they will be spending eternity. I agree with you that we are to judge the fruits of someone and use fraternal correction when it is warranted. I cannot look at someone’s life who has committed genocide and say, “There’s no chance for them to be saved.” Scripture also says that God can do anything he wills; and he wills “everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:4 I trust in God’s mercy just as St. Faustina asks us to do. (I’m currently reading her diary…it’s awesome!) Eternally, Belinda

I do not think that the issue is judging who goes to hell (I believe that Hitlers and those as he are; don’t think Judas is…); I think that the issue is blurred when “hopefull thinking” meets “hollowood’s spirituality” (I can rely on God’s Love and Mercy while doing everything to deny Christ’s Commandment to change my Life and Follow Him!

Waiting till “x” time to repent (death bed) or using murder/suicide to escape temporal reality is not the means to receiving/achieving God’s Mercy!

Though it is true that only God knows the final fate of humanity, Jesus clearly Taught that “narrow is the Path that Leads to Salvation and few (choose) travel through it!”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Who can begin to know the ways and thoughts of God. We are given a glimpse into HIs love and mercy within the Gospels, but we have been also given a glimpse of HIs fury and HIs anger with those who are unrighteous!

No one can know, if within those last minutes or seconds before ones’ death, if they are given the opportunity to accept the love and mercy of Christ through repentance, one can only hope, but never under any condition should the faithful attempt to judge the condition of a soul…that alone is for God, and that was never deferred to the Apostles, or those that were to succeed.

…correct God alone is the Judge! …but the Holy Spirit has given us a general guide to follow and those who willfully choose to reject God’s Commandment (Ezekiel 18) have only themselves to hold accountable for their final and eternal state (Deuteronomy 30:19-20); if we stubbornly choose death till the last moment of our temporal life, I doubt very much that God’s Mercy will automatically kick in and grant us Eternal Salvation despite our determination to reject God!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[bjoy73]

I do not think that the issue is judging who goes to hell (I believe that Hitlers and those as he are; don’t think Judas is…); I think that the issue is blurred when “hopefull thinking” meets “hollowood’s spirituality” (I can rely on God’s Love and Mercy while doing everything to deny Christ’s Commandment to change my Life and Follow Him!

Though it is true that only God knows the final fate of humanity, Jesus clearly Taught that “narrow is the Path that Leads to Salvation and few (choose) travel through it!”

Maran atha!

Angel

When you say that Hitlers and those as he are…do you mean that you think they are going to hell? Because if that is the case, you may need to remember Matt 7:1 and 2: “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged…” We all need to let God determine who will be where in the end. We must all also follow Christ’s commandments and try to lead saintly lives.

 

[E_Thrower_II]

If a person were to die suddenly, and he had a mortal sin on his soul, but he had not repented, God will judge him, but the Church teaches you cannot go to heaven with a mortal sin. I am a little confused on this topic. Lets say that person who had a mortal sin on his soul was going to repent sometime in the future, but his life was cut short by someone who abused their own free will and shot and killed him. This person had a mortal sin on his soul and he died, but his life was taken by someone else who abused his free will, so this person may have repented later on in life, but he couldn’t. Does this person go to Heaven or have a chance to go to Heaven?

Didn’t Jonah repent after he died?

 

[E_Thrower_II]

I’m in total agreement with your post:thumbsup:

And I read the book your reading and it is AWESOME!

God Bless,
Pat

I also agree.

Eph.1:4-5
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ref. Jn 17:20-26

 

[jcrichton]

When you say that Hitlers and those as he are…do you mean that you think they are going to hell? Because if that is the case, you may need to remember Matt 7:1 and 2: “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged…” We all need to let God determine who will be where in the end. We must all also follow Christ’s commandments and try to lead saintly lives.

I think most of us confuse the act of usurping God with basic reason: “the wages of sin is death;” there’s no escape: if we choose death we will have eternal death. Granted, there’s another part to that passage (Romans 6:23): the Grace of God in Jesus–but that Grace is not a reward for the rejection of God; rather, it is a Gift granted those who abide in Christ (St. John 15:1-10).

…considering Hitler’s ambition of world domination and the extinction of all whom he considered “the inferior race” do you actually think that on the very last second of his life he repented from his deeds, saw himself a sinful failure of a man, and turned back to God? …ever hear the expression “power corrupts?”

…and as far as stating the consequences of sin… did not Jesus observe that it is easier for a camel to pass through the needle than for the rich to be saved? …Christ is not judging, He is making an assertion!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Didn’t Jonah repent after he died?

Jonah did not die; Scriptures say that he was in the belly of a fish… not that he was eaten (processed as food) and then reanimated.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I also agree.

Eph.1:4-5
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ref. Jn 17:20-26

… and that in ref to St. John 1:10-13, 3:15-21 and 15:1-10.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Akini]

We should not take dying with a mortal sin lightly. If somebody with a mortal sin had thought about repenting somewhere in the future (next week, next month or next year), but suddenly died tomorrow, then that somebody will defintely go to Hell. Not the slightest doubt about that. If a mortal sinner thought about repenting, he/she must go to confession at that very moment, without delay. There is no procrastination! When a mortal sinner dies, it is too late to change everything, hence, he/she ends down in Hell.

 

[Heuchler]

To whom much is given much is expected. We don’t know what people have been given in life. A child may have been beaten for years and experienced no love at all. How can we expect him to show love and live righteously if he has had no example of that in his life. We don’t know what people go through. For all we know, the serial killer who was so warped and mentally unstable may enter Heaven before many christians. Some people are impeded by the flesh and by many mental instabilities that they have. Can we expect the man with bi-polar disorder to be judged in the same way that a normal person is. There is a reason we are told to not judge. We don’t know the full story. As C.S. Lewis said, " When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing, does some tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed, and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God’s eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend." While I understand the Church saying that if one dies in mortal sin, they may be condemned to Hell, I think it is more based on our nature and if we tried to live a life of love, if we tried to help others, if we tried to do our best for God. I think God will understand our sins in their context and be a truly just judge.

 

[thistle]

To whom much is given much is expected. We don’t know what people have been given in life. A child may have been beaten for years and experienced no love at all. How can we expect him to show love and live righteously if he has had no example of that in his life. We don’t know what people go through. For all we know, the serial killer who was so warped and mentally unstable may enter Heaven before many christians. Some people are impeded by the flesh and by many mental instabilities that they have. Can we expect the man with bi-polar disorder to be judged in the same way that a normal person is. There is a reason we are told to not judge. We don’t know the full story. As C.S. Lewis said, " When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing, does some tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed, and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God’s eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend."** While I understand the Church saying that if one dies in mortal sin, they may be condemned to Hell**, I think it is more based on our nature and if we tried to live a life of love, if we tried to help others, if we tried to do our best for God. I think God will understand our sins in their context and be a truly just judge.

That is not what the Church teaches. The Church does not teach that a person dying in a state of mortal sin MAY go to Hell. The teaching is that they WILL go to Hell.

All your comments relate to reducing culpability which could mean that such people who have committed sins of grave matter may not have committed mortal sins which would mean they do not die in a state of mortal sin.

Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.

 

[CopticChristian]

Firstly, there is no such thing as a soul inside a body. Body + spirit = soul (Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul when God breathed the spirit into him !)

Secondly, Jesus said, “Repent or perish”.

You might want to check multiple translations of what you believe to be true and want to teach and correct.

NIV
the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

ESV
then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

NAS
Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The Greek reads…

his nostrils and breathed the ground of of dust man God the Lord formed A living being and man became A living breath.

 

[jcrichton]

To whom much is given much is expected. We don’t know what people have been given in life. A child may have been beaten for years and experienced no love at all. How can we expect him to show love and live righteously if he has had no example of that in his life. We don’t know what people go through. For all we know, the serial killer who was so warped and mentally unstable may enter Heaven before many christians. Some people are impeded by the flesh and by many mental instabilities that they have. Can we expect the man with bi-polar disorder to be judged in the same way that a normal person is. There is a reason we are told to not judge. We don’t know the full story. As C.S. Lewis said, " When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing, does some tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed, and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God’s eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend." While I understand the Church saying that if one dies in mortal sin, they may be condemned to Hell, I think it is more based on our nature and if we tried to live a life of love, if we tried to help others, if we tried to do our best for God. I think God will understand our sins in their context and be a truly just judge.

Did Jesus Judge or make a reflective statement when He stated that it was easier for a camel to pass through the “eye of the neddle” than for the rich to be Saved?

All of us, Believer and non-Believers, fall under the Grace of God; Christ, the Word Incarnate, came to the world so that all may Live–does that implies that every single human beign throughout time will be in God’s Eternal Presence?

If we chose to reject Christ we cannot rely on God’s Mercy to rescue us from eternal damnation… and while it is true that many who claim to be Catholic (or any other Christian identity) may ultimatedly end up in hell with Satan and all of the anti-Christs that existed in time, the fact is that we cannot live a wicked and rebellious existence and claim a Salvific clause/escape on our death bed; as for the mentally derranged/handicaped, I am sure that the same Holy Spirit that intercedes on behalf of the Believers would intercede on their behalf–the reality (attested to by the book of Apocalypse) is that everyone of us (yeah, even those whose temporal existence ended prior to Christ’s Death, Resurrection and Ascension) will ultimately choose life or death (Eteranal Salvation or Eternal Damnation) and not all of us will choose Life!

…there’s that secular wisdom that states that “if you fail to plan you plan to fail…” yet, interestingly enough, it seemsto me that many who Believe as well as many who do not Believe continue to seek a short-cut into Salvation by planning to fail while reaping the rewards of the just!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[bjoy73]

If it’s not possible for everyone to be saved, why does the church ask for this very thing in the highest prayer of the church, the sacrifice of the mass, and in the Liturgy of the Hours?

I know the Blessed Mother has also asked us to pray for the same thing (the salvation of all the world) in the Fatima Prayer: " lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy."’

I’m not saying this to try to negate the truth of the doctrine of hell; we have to believe in hell. I’m also not trying to say that it’s okay to live a sinful life because I’m gonna get away with it in the end. We are all called to be saints, and we will pay the very last penny for any acts in our lives that deserve punishment.

I just feel that with God all things are possible, even the salvation of the most hardened sinners.

 

[jcrichton]

If it’s not possible for everyone to be saved, why does the church ask for this very thing in the highest prayer of the church, the sacrifice of the mass, and in the Liturgy of the Hours?

I know the Blessed Mother has also asked us to pray for the same thing (the salvation of all the world) in the Fatima Prayer: " lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy."’

I’m not saying this to try to negate the truth of the doctrine of hell; we have to believe in hell. I’m also not trying to say that it’s okay to live a sinful life because I’m gonna get away with it in the end. We are all called to be saints, and we will pay the very last penny for any acts in our lives that deserve punishment.

I just feel that with God all things are possible, even the salvation of the most hardened sinners.

…but the question is not if it is possible for the whole world (form Adam till the final day before Judgment)… God is Omnipotent so there’s no limit to His accomplishments… the question is, does man want to be Saved?

…also to have a blanket Salvation where man is Saved in spite of his rejection of God is contrary to the Salvific Plan itself–it would be redundant and absurd for the Word to become Incarnate, make a whole stink about die, on the Cross, for humanity when everyone will be Saved regardless of his/her determination to chose death instead of life!

…can you imagine the confusion of people who would meet with their muderers/torturers and find them still relishing on the pain they caused and how they got away with it–not only that but they still ended up Saved?

There are plenty of Scriptural passages that warn us that even the Believers must remain in Christ in order to secure their Salvation!

…as for the Church’s prayer… that’s exactly what Christ wants–for us, the Believers, to intercede on behalf of the world… that does not mean that all of mankind will automatically gain Salvation!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[bjoy73]

…can you imagine the confusion of people who would meet with their muderers/torturers and find them still relishing on the pain they caused and how they got away with it–not only that but they still ended up Saved?

There are plenty of Scriptural passages that warn us that even the Believers must remain in Christ in order to secure their Salvation!

…as for the Church’s prayer… that’s exactly what Christ wants–for us, the Believers, to intercede on behalf of the world… that does not mean that all of mankind will automatically gain Salvation!
I’m certain that murderers/torturers would not relish the pain they caused at the moment of their death; and I’m certain they will not get away with it. We will all pay the last penny for all our transgressions. As stated in 1 Cor 3:15, “the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

There is also a quotation from the Liturgy of he Hours from the 1970 translation of the NAB that “God has given us the wisdom to understand fully the mystery, the plan he was pleased to decree in Christ. A plan to be carried out in Christ, in the fullness of time, to bring all things into one in him, in the heavens and on earth.” Eph1:9,10 The use of that absolute, “all things”, is very important from my view. I’m also emphasizing that this idea is only that, my view. I will not object if you choose to retain your view. In the end, all interpretation of scripture belongs to the magisterium. God Bless You!

 

[marine13]

I think the answer to the OP can be found in Jesus’ parable of the wedding feast:

Matthew 22:1-14

1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 But they paid no attention and went off–one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless. 13 Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Here Jesus is is telling us that we should always be prepared to be called to Heaven (have our wedding attire on). We will never know exactly when we will die and because Jesus commands us to strive for perfection we have no excuse if we are “not ready.” If we are caught being not ready we can plan on being throw into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (i.e. Hell). Just because we might have the intention of reconciliation does not make us ready to be welcomed into Heaven.

Lessons to be learned from this:

Go to mass every week and receive the Eucharist.
Go to confession as soon as possible after committing a mortal sin
Go to confession monthly and confess venial sins.
Read the Bible (ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ)

These things will help us all to become ready when we are called.

 

[Akini]

I think we are spending too much time on this title, but let us get to the point. Adulterers, drunkards, homosexuals, lesbians, child abusers including the Catholic Priests and Bishops who are child abusers and phedopiles and those Bishops who try to protect or play down the activities of these priests and bishops, murderers, money launderers, prostitutes, and everyone else who indulges in these things and failed to confess their sins to a priest till they die or try to escape by joining other christian sects - there is only one place for them to go - EVERLASTING FIRE of HELL.

 

[DENNYINMI]

To whom much is given much is expected. We don’t know what people have been given in life. A child may have been beaten for years and experienced no love at all. How can we expect him to show love and live righteously if he has had no example of that in his life. We don’t know what people go through. For all we know, the serial killer who was so warped and mentally unstable may enter Heaven before many christians. Some people are impeded by the flesh and by many mental instabilities that they have. Can we expect the man with bi-polar disorder to be judged in the same way that a normal person is. There is a reason we are told to not judge. We don’t know the full story. As C.S. Lewis said, " When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing, does some tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed, and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God’s eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend." While I understand the Church saying that if one dies in mortal sin, they may be condemned to Hell, I think it is more based on our nature and if we tried to live a life of love, if we tried to help others, if we tried to do our best for God. I think God will understand our sins in their context and be a truly just judge.

I have read this, and the posts that follow…you have indicated alot of wisdom in this, as did C.S. Lewis!!!

Who has known the Mind of God???

A person growing up in a family of emotional or physical abuse…may be inclined to these same abuses, statistics do show this.

To one to whom much has been given…much will be expected!

In Scripture is it not true that it is indeed indicated that one will be held to a higher standard than another??

This is why it was such a horrific soul piercing experience for those of us listening to the sex abuse scandals that we’re coming to light in Holy Mother Church…would not they be held to the HIGHEST standard, representing Christ to us in Persona Christi???

Indeed…who has known the Mind of God?

The deep unfathomable mercy offered by God, described by St. Faustina Kowalska…is as deep as the ocean.

 

[Heuchler]

I have read this, and the posts that follow…you have indicated alot of wisdom in this, as did C.S. Lewis!!!

Who has known the Mind of God???

A person growing up in a family of emotional or physical abuse…may be inclined to these same abuses, statistics do show this.

To one to whom much has been given…much will be expected!

In Scripture is it not true that it is indeed indicated that one will be held to a higher standard than another??

This is why it was such a horrific soul piercing experience for those of us listening to the sex abuse scandals that we’re coming to light in Holy Mother Church…would not they be held to the HIGHEST standard, representing Christ to us in Persona Christi???

Indeed…who has known the Mind of God?

The deep unfathomable mercy offered by God, described by St. Faustina Kowalska…is as deep as the ocean.

Thank you. This is very true and really the sole reason why we are not told to judge. If it were based on how many sins we had, then we would be perfectly just in judging others, but we don’t know the full situation and what these people have gone through. Thankfully we have a merciful God who knows and loves us completely.