If a priest asks me to say "x #" of Hail Marys or Rosaries, or Mary devotions, do I have to?

[kage_ar]

I could understand where you come from. Thinking of how you praise or thanks someone who is doing God’s work; do we take away from praising to God? If we admire a painting, do we not admire the painter?

May I suggest you read these books:

“The Secret of the Rosary” by Saint Louis de Montfort
amazon.com/Secret-Rosary-St-Louis-Monfort/dp/0895550563

It is nothing really secret; it is just that it helps us understand what is going on during the Rosary and what we should meditate on.

For a convert coming in from the kind of Bible only evangelical background I had, I’d suggest that this book stay on the shelf until the OP has come to terms with Mary through apologetics work.

TSOTR is like a love letter, it can seem to seem to confirm all of one’s worse fears if one reads it from a “Catholics worship Mary at the same level as God” POV. It is better left for one who has developed an understanding of Mary, for one who is no longer afraid of Marian devotion.

 

[paul_c]

This is exactly what I was asking. As long as whatever I do to God is greater than what I do to anyone else, I’m ok w/it.

When I"ve prayed the rosary, I started feeling like it was too much to Mary and not enough to God, so I substituted (even though I know RCs would probably think this is wrong) the Holy Mary part with “Holy Jesus, son of God, pray for us sinners,now and at the hour of our death,” or Glory be to The Father, etc.etc) . I felt totally fine w/that. Although some might say Jesus doesn’t pray for us, but he did when he lived here and said that anything he asks the Father will be given to him, so why not now at “his right hand” as well?

Do not fool yourself. Mary has a significant role in Catholicism. you need to get past this aversion prior to becoming Catholic, Remember, Mary is the one and only woman deemed suitable to bear Jesus. That in itself makes her worthy of our respect. In addition, she has been tremendously effective, over the centuries in bringing people to the faith. She can do that for you too, if you let her.

 

[withwind]

For a convert coming in from the kind of Bible only evangelical background I had, I’d suggest that this book stay on the shelf until the OP has come to terms with Mary through apologetics work.

TSOTR is like a love letter, it can seem to seem to confirm all of one’s worse fears if one reads it from a “Catholics worship Mary at the same level as God” POV. It is better left for one who has developed an understanding of Mary, for one who is no longer afraid of Marian devotion.

You could be right that this book might not work for a convert, but I couldn’t think of any other book which had helped me greatly in the past. Although, I wasn’t a convert, this book really helped me a lot in understanding the Rosary devotion.

Another book that helped me along with the other one is: “Hail Holy Queen” by Scott Hahn.

 

[kage_ar]

Do not fool yourself. Mary has a significant role in Catholicism. you need to get past this aversion prior to becoming Catholic,

One is required to accept the Marian Dogmas as part of the teaching of the Church.

That does not mean that a Catholic has to pray the Hail Mary. The Rosary is a PRIVATE DEVOTION, one can be a devout Catholic and not embrace that particular private devotion.

 

[paul_c]

One is required to accept the Marian Dogmas as part of the teaching of the Church.

That does not mean that a Catholic has to pray the Hail Mary. The Rosary is a PRIVATE DEVOTION, one can be a devout Catholic and not embrace that particular private devotion.

Agreed, but that wasn’t the question. The question is “Do I have to pray a Hail Mary if that is my penance.” If you are deliberately avoiding Mary in this, then you haven’t really embraced the whole of the truths of Catholicism.

 

[NotWorthy]

Guys,

I firmly believe that one shouldn’t say the Hail Mary until:
a) they believe the prayer intimately,
or
b) are trying to “come to grips” with the prayer and seeking guidance.

If the OP has an aversion to this prayer, then it sounds to me like an empty prayer. Catholics have enough of an image problem with vain, repetitious prayer without having to say prayers that we don’t believe.

Say the prayers to Mary when you are ready to, not before.

 

[withwind]

Guys,

I firmly believe that one shouldn’t say the Hail Mary until:
a) they believe the prayer intimately,
or
b) are trying to “come to grips” with the prayer and seeking guidance.

If the OP has an aversion to this prayer, then it sounds to me like an empty prayer. Catholics have enough of an image problem with vain, repetitious prayer without having to say prayers that we don’t believe.

Say the prayers to Mary when you are ready to, not before.

Many prayed the rosary when we were kids and we knew nothing – we were told to pray and we just prayed but that is how it all started. Many of us only know the effect and the meditation of the powerful of the Rosary years later.

 

[NotWorthy]

Many prayed the rosary when we were kids and we knew nothing – we were told to pray and we just prayed but that is how it all started. Many of us only know the effect and the meditation of the powerful of the Rosary years later.

Yes, your parents laid a foundation that you later built upon. I feel that I did the exact same thing, and I am oh, so thankful to have done that, Praise God!!!

But, I never said the Rosary with an aversion to what was being said. I was never brain-washed (for lack of a better word) into thinking Catholics worship Mary instead of Jesus.

Our OP has two challenges:
a) Try to open himself up to the teachings of the Church.
b) Say a prayer that truly comes from his heart.

Until he can succeed at a), or begin the struggle that will help him succeed with a), then he shouldn’t be saying the Rosary, in my opinion.

Our prayers should come from our hearts, or should be made with the intention of opening our hearts. If they can’t be done in these two ways, then I wouldn’t want to say them.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

So that means we should go against our consciences and do things we think are sins? If I think it may be a sin to praise her like that, I should just do it and eventually I’ll get desensitized and won’t feel bad? That doesn’t sound right.

You also need to understand a few things about sin. We individually do not determine what is or is not a sin. The Church has never determined that praying the Hail Mary, or the Rosary is sinful. Your conscious has not been properly formed.

 

[mesl4]

You also need to understand a few things about sin. We individually do not determine what is or is not a sin. The Church has never determined that praying the Hail Mary, or the Rosary is sinful. Your conscious has not been properly formed.

I know The Catholic church has never determined that, so that’s fine for Catholics, but for someone who’s believed Catholics were led astray by the devil for years, it’s important to carefully analyze all the Catholic dogmas /practices to make sure they couldn’t possibly be sinful. I’m compelled to look into the Catholic church because of new insight when reading Catholic apologetics on the Papacy/“keys” and Peter, and reading early church fathers, but I’m proceeding w/extreme caution for fear it is a devil’s trap. If the Catholic claims of having Christ’s authority to lead souls to heaven are correct, great, I’ll happily join, but it’s not so easy as saying something is sin or not sin simply because your Church says it is. Pray for me! I’ve bawled my eyes out many times asking God to please make it clear to me. Even today I bawled and even asked Mary to ask him! Yikes! Why does he not want to reveal this clearly to me? There is so much deceit in this world, and the Bible says to weigh everything carefully against scripture, so if it isn’t in scripture, it makes me nervous!:bighanky:

 

[Lazerlike42]

I know The Catholic church has never determined that, so that’s fine for Catholics, but for someone who’s believed Catholics were led astray by the devil for years, it’s important to carefully analyze all the Catholic dogmas /practices to make sure they couldn’t possibly be sinful. I’m compelled to look into the Catholic church because of new insight when reading Catholic apologetics on the Papacy/“keys” and Peter, and reading early church fathers, but I’m proceeding w/extreme caution for fear it is a devil’s trap. If the Catholic claims of having Christ’s authority to lead souls to heaven are correct, great, I’ll happily join, but it’s not so easy as saying something is sin or not sin simply because your Church says it is. Pray for me! I’ve bawled my eyes out many times asking God to please make it clear to me. Even today I bawled and even asked Mary to ask him! Yikes! Why does he not want to reveal this clearly to me? There is so much deceit in this world, and the Bible says to weigh everything carefully against scripture, so if it isn’t in scripture, it makes me nervous!:bighanky:

I would suggest two things, one more important than the second.

First, the Hail Mary is mostly in fact a quotation from the Scripture. That’s just a specific point that’s worth thinking about.

The more important point is that if you’re prayerfully exploring the Catholic Church and seeking the truth, you needn’t worry about something like what the priest would assign you for pennance at this stage, because by the time you would in fact be making a confession and receiving a penance, you will have worked things like the Hail Mary out more thoroughly.

The Church teaches certain things about Mary, and one of those is that we can ask her intercession. The Church teaches things about the Sacrament of Reconcilliation, too, and about various other things. As you explore the Church, you’ll certainly be considering each of these points prayerfully, I’m sure. In the end, if the Church is truly the Church of God, then those things she teaches will be true, obviously. And further, if she teaches something that is not true, then she is not the Church of God. So the point is, don’t worry about what I would call “secondary” things like whether or not you would be given a Hail Mary as a penance, because if you reach the point where you believe that Jesus truly acts through the Church to forgive sins, then you’ll also believe that He leads her into teaching truthful things rather than falsehoods.

The thing that is worrying you is that, with the Catholic Church, it is a package: if she is the Church, then everything that goes with her is true, and you’d have to accept that, so you are worried about checking out everything. As a convert myself, I can understand how frightening that can be! However, look at the other side of it, which is the “easier” side: if she really is the Church of Christ, then that’s ultimately all that needs to be figured out, and everything else follows from that. I know that you can’t just jump on board without examining everything at this point, I’m just offering that as food for thought.

So my advice would be not to worry about what you may get as penance, or if you would have to say a Rosary now and then, or whatever the case may be. Try to figure out if the Church is Christ’s Church, and try to figure out if what she says about Mary is true, and do those things. Don’t let your worries about the cart prevent you from seeing the horse, because if the horse is right, then the cart will follown.

God bless!

 

[kage_ar]

I came through RCIA Easter Vigil '98. I did not pray my first Rosary until Lent of 2001 (still remember the day!)

Give her time

 

[paul_c]

I know The Catholic church has never determined that, so that’s fine for Catholics, but for someone who’s believed Catholics were led astray by the devil for years, it’s important to carefully analyze all the Catholic dogmas /practices to make sure they couldn’t possibly be sinful. I’m compelled to look into the Catholic church because of new insight when reading Catholic apologetics on the Papacy/“keys” and Peter, and reading early church fathers, but I’m proceeding w/extreme caution for fear it is a devil’s trap. If the Catholic claims of having Christ’s authority to lead souls to heaven are correct, great, I’ll happily join, but it’s not so easy as saying something is sin or not sin simply because your Church says it is. Pray for me! I’ve bawled my eyes out many times asking God to please make it clear to me. Even today I bawled and even asked Mary to ask him! Yikes! Why does he not want to reveal this clearly to me? There is so much deceit in this world, and the Bible says to weigh everything carefully against scripture, so if it isn’t in scripture, it makes me nervous!:bighanky:

This was well said and it makes your struggle clear. One of the great things about the Catholic Church is that every position has been well thought out over the centuries and the teachings are readily accessible. For instance, if you use the Ask an Apologist function at CAF, they will give you the rationale for any question you might have. So you don’t have to go it alone. Think of it as a journey to the truth. Sometimes things aren’t clear until you reach a peak or turn a corner. Just keep pressing forward and it will become clear. One of your biggest hurdles will be to learn to trust that the Church has your best interest at heart and that it will not lead you astray. I am sure this can be difficult because the various Protestant religions have to prove that Catholicism is not the Church of Christ to justify their existence. Because after all, if the Catholic Church IS the church of Christ, what would there be to protest against and those that are protesting against the truth are indeed heretics. In fact, there is a tremendous amount of misinformation spread about Catholic teachings so the first thing to do is to understand what the Church really teaches and why. The most comprehensive and official source of that information is actually the Catholic Catechism. If you google those words, you can access it on the web. Once you understand the official teachings, you will probably feel alot better about it. i’ll pray for you…

 

[palmas85]

This thread is troubling in many ways and I think that in some ways it speaks volumes about the educational process that those coming into the faith are exposed to be it RCIA or CCD.

From the posts I get the distinct impression that the OP has not been exposed to much of Marian Dogma and the importance that Mary has in the Church, hence the aversion to saying prayers to Mary. One who understands and accepts Marian dogma should have no qualms about saying these prayers because they would or should understand why they are being said in the first place. The OP apparently does not.

Unfortunately in our educational programs we all to often sprint past such things in our zeal to get these people into the Church whether they understand it or not. And I think that is wrong.

One of the reasons for this I think is a holdover from a misguided attempt after Vatican II to relegate most Marian devotions to the trash bin by not a small number of the clergy. They apparently felt that such devotions were quaint, old fashioned and totally out of touch with the new theology and not at all conducive to ecumenical relations with our separated brethren who wanted nothing whatsoever to do with Mary or devotions to her. And so Marian devotions lagged until the assasination attempt of Pope John Paul II and his statement that the Blessed Mother was responsible for him turning his head just slightly thus saving his life. As those of us old enough to remember will recall, this created anguish and consternation among the more progressive among us as the subsequent upsurge in Marian devotions totally derailed many of their goals.

I think that in downplaying the importance of the Blessed Mother we do damage to the faith and to the consciences of those coming into the Church. They should be told the truth, taught the truth and exposed to the truth. Not the watered down statements by some that Mary is nothing more than a Christian sister and a mighty prayer warrior.

 

[Ruthie]

…for someone who’s believed Catholics were led astray by the devil for years, it’s important to carefully analyze all the Catholic dogmas /practices to make sure they couldn’t possibly be sinful. I’m compelled to look into the Catholic church because of new insight…

It sounds like you haven’t quite made up your mind yet about the devil’s place in our church. I understand where you’re coming from - but I don’t completely agree. If you investigate each and every detail, you’ll still be investigating when you die. So start with the big ones. And Mary is a big one for virtually every convert.

I’m a recent convert. I wasn’t indoctrinated the way you were about the Church, so I didn’t have those strong “instincts” to overcome. But I still had problems with Mary.

I started with the Immaculate Conception: believing that Mary was much more than just a decanter for Christ (so to speak). Then I could accept her as my perfect mother.

At first I was uncomfortable with the Rosary, because it seemed so unbalanced with its 53 Hail Marys vs. 5 Our Fathers. I became comfortable with the Rosary because it is Mary’s “job” to draw us to her Son, and because the “Hail Mary” is the praise that she is already given in the Bible, plus a line asking her to pray for us. So, while I say the 10 Hail Marys of each decade, I meditate on that Mystery with her help. They are a bridge which supports my meditation between the prayers to the Father, the Trinity, and Jesus. Just like Mary was the conduit, so to speak, between God’s eternity and the Son’s incarnation.

I have come to like the “Hail, Holy Queen,” but I do think it’s pretty flowery! But the ending is great : “Pray for us, O holy mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.” Yes, indeed. And, like you, I don’t like the Memorare. It sounds like I’m trying to blackmail her.

And I don’t like any of the promises attached to various devotions that make it sound like God is a vending machine. Maybe it’s true that if I do some particular devotion so many times in such-and-such a way, that God will grant my prayer. But to do so with the intent of forcing Him to grant my prayer… no sirree!

Well, I’m running on and on. My suggestion is to decide on the evidence whether the Church is indeed the one Jesus founded and the one that is truly descended in an unbroken line from the Apostles. Once you decide that Catholicism is the real deal, you can accept the other things on faith, for now, assuming that you will learn more as you go along. That’s what I did, and she hasn’t let me down yet.

Getting sooo sleepy…

Pray for me, that I might be made worthy of the promises of Christ. God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[Claymont79]

I converted in 2002 at the Easter Vigil. I had not been well catechised but felt I needed to be Catholic to properly raise the kids we had recently adopted. Having been raised much the same as the original poster, I had big issues with Mary prayers as well, but went with the flow as our priest is one of those who doesn’t seem to care for Our Lady.
However, since then I have read tons about her and many saints and had several experiences that have led me to her feet to beg for intercession which she has graciously bestowed upon me. Since we decided to Homeschool our growing 2nd little brood - now there are 5 (our older 7 were already out of the home and had been partially Homeschooled as well) I wanted to be able to coherently talk about the Church and her traditions.
This led me down the path of correct catechesis, which I wish I had had to begin with. It’s like a whole other side of life that I thoroughly needed - please follow the previous folks’ advice and read those books, I did and it made a huge difference to my faith journey.

 

[onmyknees]

I just wanted to add that I had a really hard time praying for Mary’s intercession to Jesus when I first came back to my Catholic faith. I understood all the reasons why it was a good thing to do. I prayed the rosary and other Marian prayers but my heart was not in them. One day I was really struggling before going into confession. I had prayed to the Holy Spirit yet I just couldn’t seem to calm down. While I was in line waiting to go in I looked up and there was the most beautiful statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary on a shelf above me. Tears just started rolling my cheeks and I started to talk to Mary from my heart. Through my sobs I asked her if she could ask Jesus to help me in confession. It was the best confession ever! And ever since then I have had a true devotion to Our Blessed Mother. Thanks be to God!

 

[po18guy]

IBTW, my struggle with Catholicism is with the consumption of alcohol. I simply can’t accept it as harmless. Intellectually I accept that drinking alcohol in extreme moderation is not a sin, but in my heart, I still see it as grave sin to even have a beer or a glass of wine. I grew up in a teetotalling home and lived for over 40 years among Christians who never, ever drank alcohol, and I was incredibly happy with this lifestyle and these people as friends.

Please consider the fact that it no longer is wine. Only the accidents of wine remain. It has become, in the Priest’s hands and by the power of the Holy Spirit, the Blood of Christ. Christ commanded His Apostles to take and drink. If the Blood of Christ is sinful, what will then save us?

I do not drink, but I look forward to the cup of His cleansing Blood. However, you still receive all of Christ in either specie, Body or Blood. For example, my parish has a celiac who cannot tolerate even a tiny bit of wheat, so she gladly takes the cup. This is by God’s grace.

 

[po18guy]

Let me reiterate that I have not yet gone to confession or been asked to do any sort of penance yet.

I wrestle with whether or not to join the RC based on fear that it might not be from God. It either is what it says it is, or it is an anti-christ set up to lead others astray and toward idolatry, pride in self-discipline, and away from the grace of Christ. I have to weigh every RC doctrine to prove to myself that it is of God. If there is too much Mary devotion, it could be enough to prove the RC is of the devil because it drives people closer to a creature instead of the Creator. Satan would love that, even if it were done in the name of Christ. I worry that if I make the mistake of believing the RC is of God, and it is really not, than I will be committing grave sin after grave sin by doing penance, by adoring Mary in the way RCs do, etc. The Memorare is a prayer I really cannot say. It seems lso blasphemous or idolatrous or whatever the word is. Why would I go to her protection when I can go to the Father’s? I don’t have a problem with 67 or whatever # of “Hail Marys” as long as I can do 100 OUr Fathers or Glory be or whatver towards my Lord for longer than I do toward any creature. It seems sinful to me to pray longer to a creature than to my God.
When you justify it saying that we are simply asking for intercession, first of all, that is not all that is done. Many Marian prayers are full of praise that I’ve only done to God. Also, if I spent more time asking friends to pray for me, than I did simply asking God myself I’d think there was something wrong w/that. We must place our relationship w/our Father ahead of all our other relationships and feel fully comfortable going to him before anyone else. Otherwise, Satan wins by keeping us away from our Papa.

This will strike you as strange, but your faith has been built backward. Your foundation is that derived from those who split off from the CC centuries ago, but only after 1,500 years of settled Christian doctrine. They threw away everything but scripture and then set about interpreting the bible for themselves. Obviously, they made errors in that interpretation.

Your reluctance and difficulty is due to the unintentional error that you have been taught, and have believed. You are, in effect, observing the complete truth of God’s revelation for the first time in your life. You are understandably hesitant to embrace it, as it appears much more complex and different from what you have been taught. As you have already been doing, keep praying for the grace to recognize it.

I have found it helpful to remember that:

1. The Holy Spirit always unites.
2. The demon always divides.

You are in my prayers.

 

[po18guy]

So that means we should go against our consciences and do things we think are sins? If I think it may be a sin to praise her like that, I should just do it and eventually I’ll get desensitized and won’t feel bad? That doesn’t sound right.

Read the first chapter of Luke several times. “From now on, all generations will call me blessed”. I would bet that your former church(es) did not stress this at all, because it was “too Catholic”. It’s in scripture, so the words are inspired and inerrant. Shouldn’t you follow scripture? Of course! So, actually it is something that you should have been doing all along, but were not. This is not worship, but veneration - honoring the Saint who said “yes” to Gabriel, and thus, to God Himself.