If all the good go to heaven. what does psalm 37:29 mean?

[excaliber]

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the righteous will live forever on a paradise earth
And psalm 37:29 looks like it supports that…does it?

There is also scripture in revelations that says new jerusalem will come down to earth from heaven…and the tent of God will be with mankind.
What does this mean… If people are going to heaven?

 

[CatholicRaven]

Psalm 37:29 refers to the promised land, Isreal, and likely is also a “type” that represents Heaven. So, they did inherit the promised land, and also, refers to those who are righteous and will be in Heaven. It’s not “either/or”… it’s “both/and.” That happens a lot in Scripture.

Revelation is notoriously difficult to interpret, and should not be attempted without a good foundational understanding of the whole of Scripture.

That said, it’s again using “types,” such as New Jerusalem being a symbol for the Church.

I’d suggest you read the footnotes here:
usccb.org/bible/revelation/21:1

 

[Darryl_B]

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the righteous will live forever on a paradise earth
And psalm 37:29 looks like it supports that…does it?

There is also scripture in revelations that says new jerusalem will come down to earth from heaven…and the tent of God will be with mankind.
What does this mean… If people are going to heaven?

Psalm 37 is a reference to the land of Israel. If the children of Israel remain faithful to the Covenant they will dwell from generation to generation in the land. If they seek unrighteousness then they will be removed from the land. This is a common theme in the Psalms.

 

[excaliber]

Psalm 37 is a reference to the land of Israel. If the children of Israel remain faithful to the Covenant they will dwell from generation to generation in the land. If they seek unrighteousness then they will be removed from the land. This is a common theme in the Psalms.

Where else is this a theme?
And there is a big issue here…there are scriptures saying God did not creat the earth for nothing…scripture saying the meek will inherit the earth forever…then the logic of why create an earth only for everyone to go too heaven or hell?

When Jehovah’s Witnesses show people these scriptures at the door…they normally have no answer…and believe them…saying…oh I have never seen that before.

 

[Darryl_B]

Where else is this a theme?

Read the Psalms beginning to end.

And there is a big issue here…there are scriptures saying God did not creat the earth for nothing…scripture saying the meek will inherit the earth forever…then the logic of why create an earth only for everyone to go too heaven or hell?

The beatitude is present. Not an after life.

Jesus Christ says He is going to prepare a place. I will come back and take you to be with me.

When Jehovah’s Witnesses show people these scriptures at the door…they normally have no answer…and believe them…saying…oh I have never seen that before.

Really? What Scriptures? I can understand that if one is not familiar with the Bible at all and one cherry-picks a few passages to formulate a mind that may well be the case.

 

[excaliber]

w03 11/15 pp. 4-7
You Can Believe in a Paradise Earth
THROUGHOUT history, millions of people have believed that they would eventually leave the earth and go to heaven. Some have felt that our Creator never intended that the earth should be our permanent dwelling place. Ascetics have gone even further. To many of them, the earth and all material things are evil—a barrier to real spiritual fulfillment and closeness to God.

Those who developed the foregoing ideas were either unaware of what God said on the matter of a paradise earth or chose to ignore it. Today, in fact, many show no interest in examining what God inspired men to record on this subject in his Word, the Bible. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) But is it not wise to trust God’s Word instead of adopting theories of men? (Romans 3:4) It is, in fact, vital that we do so, since the Bible warns us that a powerful but invisible evil creature has blinded people spiritually and is now “misleading the entire inhabited earth.”—Revelation 12:9; 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Why the Confusion?
Conflicting ideas about the soul have caused people to be confused about God’s purpose for the earth. Many believe that we have an immortal soul—something that is separate from the human body and that survives death. Others believe that the soul existed before the human body was created. According to one reference work, the Greek philosopher Plato felt that the soul “is incarcerated in the body as a punishment for the sins which it committed in its heavenly state.” Similarly, the third-century theologian Origen said that “souls sinned [in heaven] before they were united with a body” and were “imprisoned [in that body on earth] as a punishment for their sins.” And millions believe that the earth is simply some kind of testing ground on man’s journey to heaven.

There are also various ideas about what happens to the soul when a person dies. According to the book History of Western Philosophy, the Egyptians developed the view that “the souls of the dead descend into the underworld.” Philosophers later argued that the souls of the dead did not descend into a dark underworld but actually ascended to a higher spirit realm. The Greek philosopher Socrates is said to have held that at death the soul “departs into [an] invisible region . . . and spends the rest of its existence with the gods.”

What Does the Bible Say?
Nowhere does God’s inspired Word, the Bible, say that humans have an immortal soul. Read the account at Genesis 2:7 for yourself. It says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” That is clear and unambiguous. When God created the first man, Adam, He did not put some kind of immaterial principle into him. No, for the Bible says that “the man came to be a living soul.” The man did not house a soul. He was a soul.

In creating the earth and the human family, Jehovah never intended that man should die. God’s purpose was that humans would live on earth forever amid Paradise conditions. Adam died only because he disobeyed God’s law. (Genesis 2:8, 15-17; 3:1-6; Isaiah 45:18) When the first man died, did he go to some spirit realm? No! He—the soul Adam—returned to the inanimate dust from which he was created.—Genesis 3:17-19.

 

[excaliber]

Darryl b
You asked for it.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have been teaching this for over a hundred years…and im not sure anyone has yet to find a solid scriptural argument.

 

[Darryl_B]

Thanks for the citation my friend. But sorry, that does not say much at all. All it really does is appeal to me that the Christian Church should be ignored because the Bible tells me to (which is a very unusual argument indeed), then cite Scripture and prompt me to perform eisegesis with it.

The christadelphians came up with most of this prior to your 100 years. It is an idea which was impossible to be born without the age of Enlightenment. It essentially turns everything supernatural into the purely natural. They made the claim that the Holy Spirit is electricity, the Devil is just Flesh, the Human is just atoms and so it goes.

Much of what you believe as a JW is derived from a contact with them.

 

[rcwitness]

Matthew 5
“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

Revelation 21
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;3and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;*he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

 

[excaliber]

Thanks for the citation my friend. But sorry, that does not say much at all. All it really does is appeal to me that the Christian Church should be ignored because the Bible tells me to (which is a very unusual argument indeed), then cite Scripture and prompt me to perform eisegesis with it.

The christadelphians came up with most of this prior to your 100 years. It is an idea which was impossible to be born without the age of Enlightenment. It essentially turns everything supernatural into the purely natural. They made the claim that the Holy Spirit is electricity, the Devil is just Flesh, the Human is just atoms and so it goes.

Much of what you believe as a JW is derived from a contact with them.

Was that group BEFORE the JW existed?

 

[Wesrock]

God will make a new heaven and a new earth. Our earth will be regenerated, as we are through baptism. We don’t know entirely what that will entail, but we will live in this regenerated world with our glorified bodies.

The immaterial heaven our souls go to is not a literal place in the way we normally think of it, and it’s inbetween our death now and the resurrection.

From the Catechism:

VI. THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH

1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:

The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631

1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."632 It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."633

1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."635

1045 For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament."636 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, “the holy city” of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.638 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.

1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.639

1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640

1048 "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."641

1049 "Far from diminishing our concern to develop this earth, the expectancy of a new earth should spur us on, for it is here that the body of a new human family grows, foreshadowing in some way the age which is to come. That is why, although we must be careful to distinguish earthly progress clearly from the increase of the kingdom of Christ, such progress is of vital concern to the kingdom of God, insofar as it can contribute to the better ordering of human society."642

1050 "When we have spread on earth the fruits of our nature and our enterprise . . . according to the command of the Lord and in his Spirit, we will find them once again, cleansed this time from the stain of sin, illuminated and transfigured, when Christ presents to his Father an eternal and universal kingdom."643 God will then be “all in all” in eternal life:644

True and subsistent life consists in this: the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit, pouring out his heavenly gifts on all things without exception. Thanks to his mercy, we too, men that we are, have received the inalienable promise of eternal life.645

As for the citation about man being a living soul, that statement is really only a rebuttal of Descartes. In Thomism, for example, man is essentially a rational soul. Your citation also ignores later Jewish scriptures and tradition regarding Sheol, the abode of the dead prior to Christ. And are we also falling into a sola scriptura trap? A bad one at that.

 

[Darryl_B]

Was that group BEFORE the JW existed?

Yes. The early 1840s. The history is not in a vacuum. Though the relative isolation from the core of the Christian Church (Europe) did aid a little in the “reinventing” Christianity.

The christadelphian developer did have a problem with what became of a persons character, personality, memories if their’s was not a soul, so what he developed was the idea that man’s psyche (though not soul) went up into the aether and floated around aimlessly there until it was flashed back into the body. The aether is the physical heavens.

But the whole reinvention of Christian doctrine was aided by the Puritan obsession with the Old Testament, post-milleniallism, that America was like some promised land, with land ownership for all, coupled with being a location that didn’t seem to have enough Christian roots, along with the then reinvention of pre-milleniallism, generating a earthly kingdom, earthly throne, earthly centre. Which has ultimately for that particular group anyway to have eliminated the “cross”, replacing it instead with knowledge of the Bible as the basis of salvation, and only they will be saved.

In other words it required quite a few conditions to develop this reinvention, and the JW is just an extention of this.

Incidentally there was a group called the Sadducees who denied not only the resurrection but also the soul. Jesus Christ maintained that God was the God of the “Living”, and that since God is the God of “Abraham” Abraham was indeed living.

 

[TrueWitness]

Isaiah 45:18*- “For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.”

Ecclesiastes 1:4*- “A generation is going, and a generation is coming, But the earth remains forever.”
Since the earth remains forever then this verse make sense: Psalms 37:29*- “The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.”

This also goes with what Jesus said that the meek will inherit the earth.
Psalms 37:11*- “But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.”

Let’s not forget the our father prayer aswel… We say let your Kingdom come as in heaven also upon the earth… Why pray for a new Earth if no one will be living on it.

 

[PJM]

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the righteous will live forever on a paradise earth
And psalm 37:29 looks like it supports that…does it?

There is also scripture in revelations that says new jerusalem will come down to earth from heaven…and the tent of God will be with mankind.
What does this mean… If people are going to heaven?

Ahhhhh
Psalm 37 ENDS with # 23

I’d like to respond but am lost here:shrug:
As to your second passage; PLEASE provide the Biblical reference info, and will also reply to that

I wish to be accurate in my reply

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[TrueWitness]

Ahhhhh
Psalm 37 ENDS with # 23

Hey there.
Psalms 37 actually ends with verse 40

I’d like to respond but am lost here:shrug:
As to your second passage; PLEASE provide the Biblical reference info, and will also reply to that

I wish to be accurate in my reply

God Bless you,
Patrick

His referring to a scripture in Revelation 21:2,3 - “I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.”

 

[CatholicRaven]

For reference:

usccb.org/bible/psalms/37

27
Turn from evil and do good,
that you may be settled forever.
28
For the LORD loves justice
and does not abandon the faithful.

When the unjust are destroyed,
and the offspring of the wicked cut off,
29
The righteous will inherit the earth
and dwell in it forever.

 

[CatholicRaven]

Darryl b
You asked for it.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have been teaching this for over a hundred years…and im not sure anyone has yet to find a solid scriptural argument.

Really, with all the theologians and documents out there, you think no one has come up with a reasonable argument? I wonder how hard you’ve really looked?

I also take it you didn’t read any of the footnotes from the link I gave.

Phil 3:20-21, Rom 8 (esp. 16-17 and 24), and Mt 5:11-12, we are told that the followers of Christ are given the hope of heaven (not paradise on earth).

And what does it matter whether it’s been taught for “over a hundred years” or not? There are plenty of things that have been taught for a very long time. That doesn’t automatically make them correct. The JWs also teach that Jesus is only a man, that only 144,000 people are going to Heaven (and it’s already full, by the way), that hell is temporary, and that the soul does not live forever. They changed their prohibitions on organ transplants and vaccinations, but still (afaik) forbid blood transfusions. They also used to predict the end of the world… but that didn’t pan out. Twice.

They might get some things right, but they also get plenty wrong. So why should I believe their interpretation over the Church’s?

 

[Darryl_B]

Isaiah 45:18*- “For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.”

And when I look around now that is exactly what I see. The earth is inhabited.

Ecclesiastes 1:4*- “A generation is going, and a generation is coming, But the earth remains forever.”
Since the earth remains forever then this verse make sense: Psalms 37:29*- “The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.”

Did the Hebrew language have a word for infinity? No. Neither did the Greek. That is why you will find the phrase “forever and ever”. A Multiplication of ages. Not merely an hyperbolic expression.

This also goes with what Jesus said that the meek will inherit the earth.
Psalms 37:11*- “But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.”

This is from the Blessings. I believe these blessings are for our present existence on earth. I would call this the Church and the sacraments. The interesting thing about these Blessings is the one who speaks them. Jesus Christ spoke these Blessings in the same way as Adam Noah Abraham received Blessings. Jesus Christ can deliver. If we project these Blessings into the future we are comfortless now.

Let’s not forget the our father prayer as well… We say let your Kingdom come as in heaven also upon the earth… Why pray for a new Earth if no one will be living on it.

When I say Thy Kingdom Come Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. I pray this for today, which is why one would pray it every day. Jesus Christ King, Heaven touching Earth. Again I believe this to be the Church the Sacraments and the Peace.

 

[TrueWitness]

The JWs also teach that Jesus is only a man

This is false and a huge misconception. Jesus is in heaven there’s no way he can be just a man… His our Messianic King

that only 144,000 people are going to Heaven (and it’s already full, by the way)

Yes we believe that only 144,000 are going to heaven, and the rest of the righteous will live on earth… Like it says the righteous will posses or inherit the earth. (by the way we can’t say if it’s full or not as we are not the judge as to who goes to heaven that’s for God to decide)

that hell is temporary, and that the soul does not live forever.

No we don’t believe in hell at all. Yes the Bible says the soul that is sinning will die, we believe that… But we also believe in the resurrection

They changed their prohibitions on organ transplants and vaccinations, but still (afaik) forbid blood transfusions. They also used to predict the end of the world… but that didn’t pan out. Twice.

These are also misconceptions apostates want everyone to believe, unfortunately many believe everything they read on the Internet without any further study or examination.

They might get some things right, but they also get plenty wrong. So why should I believe their interpretation over the Church’s?

Must compare it with the Bible, but then again Catholics main authority is the church where as our main authority is the Bible

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Must compare it with the Bible, but then again Catholics main authority is the church where as our main authority is the Bible

And by what authority do interpret the Bible?