If all the good go to heaven. what does psalm 37:29 mean?

[CatholicRaven]

This is false and a huge misconception. Jesus is in heaven there’s no way he can be just a man… His our Messianic King

I didn’t say “just” a man, I said, “only a man,” as in, “not God.” You do not teach that Jesus is God in the way that Catholics do, correct? The JWs I’ve spoken with (and the literature) tell me that Jesus is a holy and very special man, but not God (or merely “a god,” not “The God”).

Yes we believe that only 144,000 are going to heaven, and the rest of the righteous will live on earth… Like it says the righteous will posses or inherit the earth. (by the way we can’t say if it’s full or not as we are not the judge as to who goes to heaven that’s for God to decide)

I’ve been told over and over by many Jehovah’s Witnesses that the “Anointed” were all born before 1935 and are already in Heaven. Perhaps there is another branch or sect that does not agree?

No we don’t believe in hell at all. Yes the Bible says the soul that is sinning will die, we believe that… But we also believe in the resurrection

Again, I don’t know whether this is a difference in sects, or what. I also understood that the JW teaching is that the soul dies when the body does, and the person will be re-created at the end of the world. Is my information outdated?

These are also misconceptions apostates want everyone to believe, unfortunately many believe everything they read on the Internet without any further study or examination.

Just to be clear, I didn’t use the internet for any of my information. This is my summary of what I’ve studied in the past. If I’m wrong in my assessment, then the JW literature was wrong, as well. Which brings us back around to the same point.

Must compare it with the Bible, but then again Catholics main authority is the church where as our main authority is the Bible

Text cannot interpret itself. It must be interpreted by someone. Who do you go to when two holy men cannot agree on what a Scripture is saying?

For Catholics, both the Church and Scripture are necessary, and do not contradict.

 

[TrueWitness]

And when I look around now that is exactly what I see. The earth is inhabited.

That’s good but it says the earth was not created for nothing, if everyone goes to heaven then what’s the earth for?

Did the Hebrew language have a word for infinity? No. Neither did the Greek. That is why you will find the phrase “forever and ever”. A Multiplication of ages. Not merely an hyperbolic expression.

But then where does the teaching come from that people will suffer in hell forever? Or do you believe hell is temporary? Same word that describes hell as being forever is what decribes earth as remaining forever.

This is from the Blessings. I believe these blessings are for our present existence on earth. I would call this the Church and the sacraments. The interesting thing about these Blessings is the one who speaks them. Jesus Christ spoke these Blessings in the same way as Adam Noah Abraham received Blessings. Jesus Christ can deliver. If we project these Blessings into the future we are comfortless

It says in abundance of peace, are you living in a world that is peaceful? Look at verse 9 and 10 of Psalms 37…it says the wicked will be removed, since we are still living in a world where there are wicked people this verses are speaking about the future. Scriptures is clear on this

When I say Thy Kingdom Come Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. I pray this for today, which is why one would pray it every day. Jesus Christ King, Heaven touching Earth. Again I believe this to be the Church the Sacraments and the Peace.

When we pray for God to bring his kingdom down to earth, you praying for the perfect conditions which is in heaven to come down to earth… Once that Kingdom comes then we will experience the wicked being removed, then the righteous inherits the earth and then we will live in peace under the perfect government Kingdom under Jesus rule, God’s Kingdom is not here yet if it was this world would not be so corrupt because Jesus will not allow it to be like this in his kingdom

 

[TrueWitness]

I didn’t say “just” a man, I said, “only a man,” as in, “not God.” You do not teach that Jesus is God in the way that Catholics do, correct? The JWs I’ve spoken with (and the literature) tell me that Jesus is a holy and very special man, but not God (or merely “a god,” not “The God”).

Yes that’s correct

I’ve been told over and over by many Jehovah’s Witnesses that the “Anointed” were all born before 1935 and are already in Heaven. Perhaps there is another branch or sect that does not agree?

Lol all born before 1935? I don’t know about that they giving their personal opinions since that is not a belief of the organisation. The anointing has started since when Jesus instituted the new covenant since then till now

Again, I don’t know whether this is a difference in sects, or what. I also understood that the JW teaching is that the soul dies when the body does, and the person will be re-created at the end of the world. Is my information outdated?

The soul dies which we believe is the body. If we are resurrected yes

Just to be clear, I didn’t use the internet for any of my information. This is my summary of what I’ve studied in the past. If I’m wrong in my assessment, then the JW literature was wrong, as well. Which brings us back around to the same point.

Nope not the literature was wrong. They were right just that you might of understood it differently hence the misconception of this and many other beliefs about us.

Text cannot interpret itself. It must be interpreted by someone. Who do you go to when two holy men cannot agree on what a Scripture is saying?

For Catholics, both the Church and Scripture are necessary, and do not contradict.

We too believe scripture does not contradict… Yes we follow the church when we see its according to scripture too. That’s why we pray for gods holy spiirt to guide us when studying scripture… His spirit can help one to understand

 

[Darryl_B]

The purpose of the earth is plainly stated as being for our habitation right now.

But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of the ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens shall pass away with great violence, and the elements shall be melted with heat, and the earth and the works which are in it, shall be burnt up.

Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass.

For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

For behold I create new heavens, and a new earth: and the former things shall not be in remembrance, and they shall not come upon the heart.

 

[Darryl_B]

But then where does the teaching come from that people will suffer in hell forever? Or do you believe hell is temporary? Same word that describes hell as being forever is what decribes earth as remaining forever.

This is entirely up to God. Does He tell us that hell is going to end?

It says in abundance of peace, are you living in a world that is peaceful? Look at verse 9 and 10 of Psalms 37…it says the wicked will be removed, since we are still living in a world where there are wicked people this verses are speaking about the future. Scriptures is clear on this

Peace is not the opposite of violence. Israel had peace when they served God. It is dwelling within the Blessings of God. Wickedness receives the Cursings of God. Anxiety sword pestilence famine. Trying to apply this to some future to missing the blessing now.

When we pray for God to bring his kingdom down to earth, you praying for the perfect conditions which is in heaven to come down to earth… Once that Kingdom comes then we will experience the wicked being removed, then the righteous inherits the earth and then we will live in peace under the perfect government Kingdom under Jesus rule, God’s Kingdom is not here yet if it was this world would not be so corrupt because Jesus will not allow it to be like this in his kingdom

Jesus Christ is Ruling in his Kingdom and has been ever since he sat down at the Right Hand on the Throne of David as Peter says in Acts 2. Are you not experiencing this wonderment? The Kingdom has Come and will continue in that path, it is a combination of saints in heaven, souls in purgatory and the Church in trial on earth. A King without a Throne is sad. A King without a Kingdom is even sadder.

Incidentally have you read what Pope John Paul II said about the Eucharist?

 

[excaliber]

For reference:

usccb.org/bible/psalms/37

27
Turn from evil and do good,
that you may be settled forever.
28
For the LORD loves justice
and does not abandon the faithful.

When the unjust are destroyed,
and the offspring of the wicked cut off,
29
The righteous will inherit the earth
and dwell in it forever.

Im going to be blunt. I don’t think the JWs are correct…
The problem is that (at least it doesn’t look like) they can be proven wrong using the bible.

If a religion teaches that some will live on earth forever…and some will live in heaven forever…then they show you a verse that says the righteous will live on earth forever…that’s a problem. Perhaps a bigger problem then we are imagining.

You have Catholics saying all will go to heaven…and the bible backs that up.

Then you have Jehovah’s Witnesses saying earth forever…and the bible backs that up.

You then have a contradiction in the bible, which the atheists would love to jump all over.

 

[TrueWitness]

This is entirely up to God. Does He tell us that hell is going to end?

Darryl im not the right person to ask that question since we do not believe in hell. But i do know with most of those who do hold that view believes that hell will last forever, to ask that question would be to be questioning that belief I suppose. Because hell is taught to be a place of eternal torment correct me if im wrong maybe catholics holds another view to protestants

Peace is not the opposite of violence. Israel had peace when they served God. It is dwelling within the Blessings of God. Wickedness receives the Cursings of God. Anxiety sword pestilence famine. Trying to apply this to some future to missing the blessing now.

That scripture mentions wicked people and peace in the same context, when wicked people is removed then it says the righteous will posses the earth and live in abundance of peace. Does not say wicked people receives a cursing it plainly and simply says wicked people will be removed. There are many verses that speaks about a earthly hope although we are only discussing one of them

Jesus Christ is Ruling in his Kingdom and has been ever since he sat down at the Right Hand on the Throne of David as Peter says in Acts 2. Are you not experiencing this wonderment? The Kingdom has Come and will continue in that path, it is a combination of saints in heaven, souls in purgatory and the Church in trial on earth. A King without a Throne is sad. A King without a Kingdom is even sadder.

The Bible says this world is ruled by Satan at 1 John 5:19 - “We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”

Jesus Kingdom has not come to earth yet Darryl, if it did then we would not be facing all these suffering, wars, sicknesses, crimes etc etc all things which the Bible says will be removed when that Kingdom comes… the our father prayer starts off that way - “Let your kingdom come”. We are not living in the perfect conditions which we will be living under the rule of Christ Kingdom, the earth will go back to being a paradise just how God intended for it from the beginning of mankind when he put Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, they were made perfect to live on earth without dying, we die today because of sin God never wanted humans to die

Incidentally have you read what Pope John Paul II said about the Eucharist?

Dont think i can recall… but thats another topic on its own if we mention the eucharist

 

[Darryl_B]

Darryl im not the right person to ask that question since we do not believe in hell. But i do know with most of those who do hold that view believes that hell will last forever, to ask that question would be to be questioning that belief I suppose. Because hell is taught to be a place of eternal torment correct me if im wrong maybe catholics holds another view to protestants

That scripture mentions wicked people and peace in the same context, when wicked people is removed then it says the righteous will posses the earth and live in abundance of peace. Does not say wicked people receives a cursing it plainly and simply says wicked people will be removed. There are many verses that speaks about a earthly hope although we are only discussing one of them

The Bible says this world is ruled by Satan at 1 John 5:19 - “We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”

Jesus Kingdom has not come to earth yet Darryl, if it did then we would not be facing all these suffering, wars, sicknesses, crimes etc etc all things which the Bible says will be removed when that Kingdom comes… the our father prayer starts off that way - “Let your kingdom come”. We are not living in the perfect conditions which we will be living under the rule of Christ Kingdom, the earth will go back to being a paradise just how God intended for it from the beginning of mankind when he put Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, they were made perfect to live on earth without dying, we die today because of sin God never wanted humans to die

Dont think i can recall… but thats another topic on its own if we mention the eucharist

I feel sorry for you my friend, I feel truly sorry. (Though I think it might also be pity). You are missing out on so much and your message would make me feel empty void, that is not the gospel message.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.

 

[TrueWitness]

I feel sorry for you my friend, I feel truly sorry. (Though I think it might also be pity). You are missing out on so much and your message would make me feel empty void, that is not the gospel message.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.

lol Its interesting because we actually feel the same when it comes to others… atleast we have one thing in common… but thats why we go out preaching because we also believe people need to come out of darkness hence we put every effort and take much of our time going out to teach people the Bible… I always say its not difficult to understand the Bible…

Another thing that we both will agree on is that the Bible never contradicts itself… so when it says things like the righteous will possess the earth you should wonder about it means since you believe everyone is going to heaven… The Bible is consistent with teaching about a new earth, and you know that, yet you deny that when you believe only in heaven then what is the point of God creating a new earth? does he mean this one would be destroyed, or renewed? because he says his creating a new heaven does it mean heaven will be destroyed or renewed?
Revelation also speaks about people living on earth. Maybe you will understand Revelations easier which is weird because Psalms is quiet easy to understand. How do you understand these verses in Revelation 21:3-5:
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.”

now think about it…

1. Gods tent is with mankind - dictionaries definition of “mankind” says - human beings considered collectively.
   So based on that we know Gods tent is with humans.
2. Death will be no more - for something to be no more it would need to be there in the first place, and since we know that theres no death in heaven we know that this verse is not speaking about heaven.
3. God says “Look I am making all things new” - remember the new earth the bible speaks about? this is it, this corresponds with Isaiah 65:17 “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.”
   you see the similarities in the words - “The former things will not come to mind” and “The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind”?

I would then appreciate if you could show me from the bible how you believe everyone will go to heaven and no one will live on earth… how do you understand these verses…

 

[Darryl_B]

lol Its interesting because we actually feel the same when it comes to others… atleast we have one thing in common… but thats why we go out preaching because we also believe people need to come out of darkness hence we put every effort and take much of our time going out to teach people the Bible… I always say its not difficult to understand the Bible…

Another thing that we both will agree on is that the Bible never contradicts itself… so when it says things like the righteous will possess the earth you should wonder about it means since you believe everyone is going to heaven… The Bible is consistent with teaching about a new earth, and you know that, yet you deny that when you believe only in heaven then what is the point of God creating a new earth? does he mean this one would be destroyed, or renewed? because he says his creating a new heaven does it mean heaven will be destroyed or renewed?
Revelation also speaks about people living on earth. Maybe you will understand Revelations easier which is weird because Psalms is quiet easy to understand. How do you understand these verses in Revelation 21:3-5:
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.”

now think about it…

1. Gods tent is with mankind - dictionaries definition of “mankind” says - human beings considered collectively.
   So based on that we know Gods tent is with humans.
2. Death will be no more - for something to be no more it would need to be there in the first place, and since we know that theres no death in heaven we know that this verse is not speaking about heaven.
3. God says “Look I am making all things new” - remember the new earth the bible speaks about? this is it, this corresponds with Isaiah 65:17 “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.”
   you see the similarities in the words - “The former things will not come to mind” and “The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind”?

I would then appreciate if you could show me from the bible how you believe everyone will go to heaven and no one will live on earth… how do you understand these verses…

I have already posted on all this. I have explained this life and the life to come. The Blessings we receive now, the Catholic Church, the sacraments, the communion of saints the King with a Kingdom. The earth and its fullness now, the end of time, and the new. I am not on the back foot here.

 

[TrueWitness]

I have already posted on all this. I have explained this life and the life to come. The Blessings we receive now, the Catholic Church, the sacraments, the communion of saints the King with a Kingdom. The earth and its fullness now, the end of time, and the new. I am not on the back foot here.

Its okay, I was hoping you could explain it with scripture, all you have giving in your explanation is what you think is right and wrong, none of those verses speaks about blessings now, death is still here how can it be a blessing now when the Bible says death will be no more… i would be confused lol… you fail to see that those verses have a future fulfillment that it has future blessings much greater than the blessings now. But hey each to his own we have to respect each others beliefs.

 

[excaliber]

A non biased person would look at this and say…acording to darrel b
And truewitness…The bible contradicts itself. By saying people will be on earth forever
And also that they will be in heaven. By also saying the heavens and earth will burn up…and saying that the earth will be here forever.

The two of you are reading two separate things from the same book. Because the book is saying two separate things. Even if a catholic uses a church tradition…that wouldn’t change this apparent contradiction.

I know we don’t want there to be a contradiction…but if we are honest…it sure looks like it.

 

[JustaServant]

And by what authority do interpret the Bible?

TW, please answer the question.

 

[TrueWitness]

A non biased person would look at this and say…acording to darrel b
And truewitness…The bible contradicts itself. By saying people will be on earth forever
And also that they will be in heaven. By also saying the heavens and earth will burn up…and saying that the earth will be here forever.

The two of you are reading two separate things from the same book. Because the book is saying two separate things. Even if a catholic uses a church tradition…that wouldn’t change this apparent contradiction.

I know we don’t want there to be a contradiction…but if we are honest…it sure looks like it.

I dont believe there are any contradictions, just 2 different viewpoints which contradict each other but its not the Bible thats contradicting itself.

The verse which was quoted is 2 Peter 3:10 - “But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens shall pass away with great violence, and the elements shall be melted with heat, and the earth and the works which are in it, shall be burnt up.”

To be correct, the explanation of these verses must agree with the context and with the rest of the Bible.

We dont take that verse literal, if we read the whole context of that scripture we will understand it.
At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society.

Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the earth itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is destroyed.

In that there is no contradiction with this and the righteous possessing the earth If we hold on to that viewpoint. Im not sure how you view it…

 

[JustaServant]

TW, answer the question please.

 

[TrueWitness]

TW, answer the question please.

By what authority do I interpret scripture…

Our authority comes from Jehovah God, based on a careful and systematic study of his Word the Bible. Ultimately it’s Gods holy spirit that opens up ones heart to help him to understand scripture, it’s God who draws humble and honest hearted ones. I give all glory to Jehovah for helping me to understand what I know. My desire is to help others with what I have learnt

 

[JustaServant]

By what authority do I interpret scripture…

Our authority comes from Jehovah God, based on a careful and systematic study of his Word the Bible. Ultimately it’s Gods holy spirit that opens up ones heart to help him to understand scripture, it’s God who draws humble and honest hearted ones. I give all glory to Jehovah for helping me to understand what I know. My desire is to help others with what I have learnt

Okay, that’s pretty much the answer I thought you would give.
So, let’s explore this shall we?
How do you know it’s the Holy Spirit ‘helping’ you?

 

[TrueWitness]

Okay, that’s pretty much the answer I thought you would give.
So, let’s explore this shall we?
How do you know it’s the Holy Spirit ‘helping’ you?

That’s a good question that each person will answer differently… When I was confused and did not know which religion to follow, I studied many different beliefs along with the Bible… I prayed for God to show me the way and help me to understand… I always felt empty… Then things started making sense the more I studied the Bible… Over the years when I did not fully understand something I pray about it and then in some weird way the answer comes to me, when that happens I believe it’s God’s spirit which I prayed to help me… But that same spirit that helped me to understand scripture helped me to change my life, like I stopped smoking and living a bad cause… Previously I prayed for God to help me overcome my bad habits and serve him in a acceptable way and with a clean heart. I now feel at peace and life has meaning… All because God’s spirit has guided me in wisdom and understanding. So grateful. But I always relied on God’s word I think that was the main reason

How do you know it’s the Holy Spirit that helps you?

 

[PJM]

Hey there.
Psalms 37 actually ends with verse 40

His referring to a scripture in Revelation 21:2,3 - “I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.”

MY OPPS. I didn’t see the minute “next” after psalm #23:blush:

I’m getting more than I can handle for now, so I’ll just bow out of this one

Soooo SORRY

 

[JustaServant]

That’s a good question that each person will answer differently… When I was confused and did not know which religion to follow, I studied many different beliefs along with the Bible… I prayed for God to show me the way and help me to understand… I always felt empty… Then things started making sense the more I studied the Bible… Over the years when I did not fully understand something I pray about it and then in some weird way the answer comes to me, when that happens I believe it’s God’s spirit which I prayed to help me… But that same spirit that helped me to understand scripture helped me to change my life, like I stopped smoking and living a bad cause… Previously I prayed for God to help me overcome my bad habits and serve him in a acceptable way and with a clean heart. I now feel at peace and life has meaning… All because God’s spirit has guided me in wisdom and understanding. So grateful. But I always relied on God’s word I think that was the main reason

How do you know it’s the Holy Spirit that helps you?

The HS cannot be guiding every single person with an infallible interpretation or else there would not be thousands of different denominations. The HS only professes ONE truth,not many or small versions of the truth or half-truths. Sola scriptura is not a license for individual interpretation.
Let me give you a quote from a Protestant source (Lutheran) Martin Chemnitz
:

“This is also certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages… We also gratefully and reverently use the labors of the fathers who by their commentaries have profitably clarified many passages of the Scripture. And we confess that we are greatly confirmed by the testimonies of the ancient church in the true and sound understanding of the Scripture. Nor do we approve of it if someone invents for himself a meaning which conflicts with all antiquity, and for which there are clearly no testimonies of the church.”

As to your question, I have 2000 years of Church history behind me.
You?